Major Trade coming this offseason.

[Trapper]

As far as losing Tavares, that’s why it never made sense to me to have two #1 centers each making $11 million. It would have made more sense to have one #1 center, and use the $11 million to have a solid 2nd line center and the rest for more forward and/or defensive help.

You can have two top end centers like Matthews and Tavares, just like Pittsburgh has Crosby/Malkin taking up whatever percentage of the cap at the time.
What you don’t have is another 11 million dollar winger. Which Pittsburgh didn’t. When Staal got to expensive, he was moved. Kessel (retained) came in at 6 million.

You have Nylander at 7, then you can have a Koneckny, DeBrincat, Boeser winger at 5 million.

That gives you enough for an entire quality 3rd line.

When you signed JT, the plan had to change. If we didn’t, the plan is different.

 

[Captain Crunch]

You can have two top end centers like Matthews and Tavares, just like Pittsburgh has Crosby/Malkin taking up whatever percentage of the cap at the time.
What you don’t have is another 11 million dollar winger. Which Pittsburgh didn’t. When Staal got to expensive, he was moved.

You have Nylander at 7, then you can have a Koneckny, DeBrincat, Boeser winger at 5 million.

That gives you enough for an entire quality 3rd line.

When you signed JT, the plan had to change. If we didn’t, the plan is different.

Im not sure you can compare Matthews and Tavares to Crosby and Malkin. And I still feel you only need one $11 million center. Leaves more money to solidify other areas.
Loved Marner when we drafted him, did a 180 when he got that outlandish contract. He definitely has to go.

 

[Trapper]

Im not sure you can compare Matthews and Tavares to Crosby and Malkin. And I still feel you only need one $11 million center. Leaves more money to solidify other areas.
Loved Marner when we drafted him, did a 180 when he got that outlandish contract. He definitely has to go.

Regardless of comparisons when you commit to a certain structure you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Not in a cap world.

We committed 22 million down the middle.
That’s your dollar commitments. That’s what we did. That’s what Dubas did.
You don’t pay franchise money to wingers, especially one who isn’t a natural goal scorer. You have a team to fill out.
That’s cap suicide. Which we are seeing. Even if nobody wants to admit it.

 

[Stephen]

Wait sorry how many series did we win under lou???

We only went 0/2 with a team that had recently finished 30th under Lou, so that's not really a good 1:1 comparison.

 

[Menzinger]

The NFL allows players to take a pay cut.

The NHL should do the same.

Personally I'd love to see a trade off - get rid of guaranteed contracts if the league agreed to say cut RFA status in half (say 2 year ELC and 2 year RFA). Would see a LOT more player movement

 

[Garthinater]

Wait sorry how many series did we win under lou???

Lou took over the leafs after we finished with 68 points. We hadn't made the playoffs since the shortened season in 2012-2013.

His first season we came dead last and got to pick auston matthews.

His 2nd season we made the playoffs for the first time in several years.

Lou's 3rd year we set a franchise record for points and made the PO twice in a row for the first time since around 2004.

Lou was here for only 3 years yet all we had was progression. Each year we got more points and made the PO.

So years 1 and 2 after coming dead last we made the POs. Can you name another team that has done the same?

Now dubas got to inherit a 105 point team that was 2 years removed from coming last place. Since then we have no series wins and even missed the playoffs last year.

Lou went to a worse team and they have outperformed us every year.

It is very clear which gm is better.

 

[Arzak]

Would you trade Sid for Marner straight up?
Won’t that be an interesting trade.
Pens gets to retool and build around Marner while still have Malkin and Letang.
Leafs gets Sid and allow him to mentor AM and Willie the right way.

Imagine any team in the league looking forward to building around Marner. Why no giving you Sid for this great opportunity.

 

[Legion34]

Lou took over the leafs after we finished with 68 points. We hadn't made the playoffs since the shortened season in 2012-2013.

His first season we came dead last and got to pick auston matthews.

His 2nd season we made the playoffs for the first time in several years.

Lou's 3rd year we set a franchise record for points and made the PO twice in a row for the first time since around 2004.

Lou was here for only 3 years yet all we had was progression. Each year we got more points and made the PO.

So years 1 and 2 after coming dead last we made the POs. Can you name another team that has done the same?

Now dubas got to inherit a 105 point team that was 2 years removed from coming last place. Since then we have no series wins and even missed the playoffs last year.

Lou went to a worse team and they have outperformed us every year.

It is very clear which gm is better.

soooo zero?

 

[Garthinater]

Don't sling insults. It makes your arguments look weak.

I'm going to make a pros and cons list just to annoy a large contingent on this board and so that others can copy and paste this. Notice how one list is bigger than the other.

Things I don't agree with dubas on:
- Tavares signing, (Nylander, Matthews, Marner is the core, we didn't have enough money to sign all AND improve the defence even with marleau contract)
- Marner extension (I actually would have been okay if they sat his a** for a year, but if this had happened, we would have had posters like you complaining and whining about how we missed the playoffs because we sat marner out even though he wanted 10mil+), Kadri trade (i'll take the L on this), not trading Tyson Barrie, drafting durzi,
- His cap management is illogical for the core
- Trading a first round pick for Foligno, but we will get back to this

Things Dubas actually did well:
Drafting

- In the 2018 draft, Dubas traded back in the first round to grab an additional third round pick
- He drafted Sandin: Bokk, Lundqvist, Bernard -Docker, and Beaudin were the opportunity costs of trading back, but Sandin arguably has as much upside as these picks, if not more
- SDA has done decent in the KHL and has played some games in the abysmal Ryan Moore system
- Kral is a good skater and projects better than the likes of eemeli rasanen, gordeev, greenway, etc
- Holmberg just won SHL playoffs MVP, thommie bergman special.
- Ignoring the first round, Dubas will probably have more nhlers in the 2018 draft than Lou had in both 2016 and 2017 drafts.

- Let's look at the 2019 draft: Robertson with the 53rd overall pick
- Robertson is sniffing the nhl and has top six upside. If he doesn't make it, it'll be due to his injuries
- Abbruzese scored over a PPG in the NCAA albeit as a D+3
- Mike Koster projects very well as indicated by scouts
- Don't even get me started on the 2020 draft

Addressing "Needs"
Needs: Defense and Grit for 18-19 season
- He moved out contracts in Zaitsev, Martin, Brown
- He addressed the need for a defensive dman by bringing in Muzzin
- Kadri kept getting suspended so to fill the #3C spot, he brought in Barrie and Kerfoot

Needs: Goaltending for 19-20 season
- believe it or not, ceci was serviceable as 3rd pairing D
- signed Spezza after a bad year in dallas (dubas saw an inefficency and exploited it)
- establishes great relations with europeans: it's how we got mikyehev,
- He got some grit with Clifford, and addressed the need for a backup in Campbell

Needs: Defence and grit for 2020-21 season: the season of grit
- brought in simmonds for grit and 1mil cap space
- brought in Thornton for leadership and 1mil cap space
- traded for foligno for leadership and grit
- had injury replacements for D in Hutton in case we needed it
- got a good partner for rielly in Brodie
- saw market inefficiency in Alex Galchenyuk
- got another backup in rittich because at the time, andersen was injured and there was no one after campbell
- traded johnsson before his value decreased even more
- mikko lehtonen didnt work out, but at least dubas has a european pipeline

So many words and all it boils down to is just your opinion and your bias.

It is hilarious that you and the other dubas fan boys think the majority of his moves are wins and yet we can't win even a single series against the worst team that made the playoffs.

There have been countless examples where his fanboys cant help but gush over any trade or signing only for it to turn out that it wasn't such a good move after all. Kadri, sparks, foligno, the rfa contracts, etc, etc.

If dubas was as good as you and his other fans think, we wouldn't have lost in the first round, again.

At some point you need to realize that you are using emotion and bias to weigh his moves. I am using facts and results. One is clearly superior to the other but I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

 

[Garthinater]

soooo zero?

Are you expecting a gm who inherited a 68 point team to have more series wins in 3 years than a gm who inherited a 105 point team?

Just trying to make sure I'm following your deranged train of thought.

 

[Legion34]

Are you expecting a gm who inherited a 68 point team to have more series wins in 3 years than a gm who inherited a 105 point team?

Just trying to make sure I'm following your deranged train of thought.

I’m saying it doesn’t matter neither won. Lou had the advantage of 3 of the top young players in the league on ELC.

that’s a massive advantage and we knew it. From the day Matthews won the calder it was a daily topic on how you need to win when they are on their ELCs like crosby and Kane etc.

lou also had the advantage of a cap going up every year. His teams also had like the least time lost due to injury.

dubas had the advantage of the North division. But the disadvantage of the pandemic.

dubas fans will say imagine what they could do with a rising cap and Matthews and Marner and nylander signed for that cheap.

Lou fans will say imagine if Lou could run a team that didn’t play Boston.

It doesn’t matter. Both are at 0 wins. Who cares. Bottom line is neither won

 

[Garthinater]

I’m saying it doesn’t matter neither won. Lou had the advantage of 3 of the top young players in the league on ELC.

that’s a massive advantage and we knew it. From the day Matthews won the calder it was a daily topic on how you need to win when they are on their ELCs like crosby and Kane etc.

lou also had the advantage of a cap going up every year. His teams also had like the least time lost due to injury.

dubas had the advantage of the North division. But the disadvantage of the pandemic.

dubas fans will say imagine what they could do with a rising cap and Matthews and Marner and nylander signed for that cheap.

Lou fans will say imagine if Lou could run a team that didn’t play Boston.

It doesn’t matter. Both are at 0 wins. Who cares. Bottom line is neither won

Matthews now > matthews 2016

Marner now > marner 2016

Nylander now > nylander 2016

Literally all 3 are much better players now than they were when lou was in charge. Also, its not lou's fault they take up almost 36% of the cap. Thats on dubas.

We never regressed under lou. Each year we got better.

Under dubas we have gotten worse pretty much every season (minus the north division season).

You are expecting a gm who took over a 68 point team to have better results than a guy who took over a 105 point team and it is completely absurd.

Lou went to a terrible islanders team and has gotten past the first round each year! Imagine if we had just kept lou and were never cursed with a stats nerd that knows nothing about pro sports.

 

[Donnie740]

It’s embarrassing that anyone would try to compare an incompetent little kid like Dubas to a Hall of Fame GM like Lamoriello.

The fact that he was able to win THREE (3) Cups in the low-budget wasteland of NJ in the pre-cap era tells you everything you need to know.

 

[Stephen]

Leafs biggest problem was putting the young players in a position to offensively succeed, before having to succeed defensively. As a result they maximized their offensive totals early and demanded to be paid like free agents. Team should've had coaches like Hitchcock, Trotz and Brindamour first. Look at Aho... in his contract year he had 83 points in 82 games (whopping +25) compared to Marner 94 in 82 (plus 22). Carolina scored something like 16 percent less goals but allowed like 13% less than Toronto. Marner got paid nearly 3 million more than Aho because of it. Not to mention, I'm sure Marner had it easy as defensive assignments were likely easier at times due to Matthews being on a different line (he also had Tavares as a linemate while Aho had lesser skilled linemates).

Switch Aho and Marner that year and I certainly don't think Marner hits 90 points.

When the Leafs were first coming up in the standings during this current rebuild, there was definitely a lot of tension between building a program based team or building superstars. The Leafs were pretty stingy with Kadri and Rielly's offensive utilization which depressed their numbers and allowed Toronto to lock them up cheap. When the Big 3 came up you could see Babcock was going for a balanced approach with judicious minutes but clearly the fanbase wanted those superstar numbers.

 

[Prominence]

So many words and all it boils down to is just your opinion and your bias.

It is hilarious that you and the other dubas fan boys think the majority of his moves are wins and yet we can't win even a single series against the worst team that made the playoffs.

There have been countless examples where his fanboys cant help but gush over any trade or signing only for it to turn out that it wasn't such a good move after all. Kadri, sparks, foligno, the rfa contracts, etc, etc.

If dubas was as good as you and his other fans think, we wouldn't have lost in the first round, again.

At some point you need to realize that you are using emotion and bias to weigh his moves. I am using facts and results. One is clearly superior to the other but I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

"So many words and all it boils down to is just your opinion and your bias."
So has everything you've said so far.

You clearly didn’t read my post and then you accuse me of not using facts? My response had two sections: one where i took your response and went down line by line on where you are wrong especially on how you claim lou would have done better even though his tenure with the leafs did not result beyond the 1st round like dubas and an empty prospect cupboard. I even acknowledged Dubas' mistakes frequently. You may not agree with me or anyone, but don’t insult or gaslight me.

In my response, I posted more facts and evidence than all your posts in this thread. I'll post the link, but it's not like you'll read it anyways.
Major Trade coming this offseason.

Any gm would have failed with this team.

 

[Stephen]

I’m saying it doesn’t matter neither won. Lou had the advantage of 3 of the top young players in the league on ELC.

that’s a massive advantage and we knew it. From the day Matthews won the calder it was a daily topic on how you need to win when they are on their ELCs like crosby and Kane etc.

lou also had the advantage of a cap going up every year. His teams also had like the least time lost due to injury.

dubas had the advantage of the North division. But the disadvantage of the pandemic.

dubas fans will say imagine what they could do with a rising cap and Matthews and Marner and nylander signed for that cheap.

Lou fans will say imagine if Lou could run a team that didn’t play Boston.

It doesn’t matter. Both are at 0 wins. Who cares. Bottom line is neither won

Winning a Stanley Cup while your core is in their ELC's is a rare feat. It's sort of a Chicago/Pittsburgh moon shot that a team like Toronto probably shouldn't have been planning for or expecting to achieve.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

According to Chris Johnston there is a major trade coming this off season, says he has an idea who it is but can't say who it is for sure yet.

Says the player did not play playoff games.

Is on a US based team

Has multiple years under contract

Would get fans excited.

any guesses?

 

[Antropovsky]

According to Chris Johnston there is a major trade coming this off season, says he has an idea who it is but can't say who it is for sure yet.

Says the player did not play playoff games.

Is on a US based team

Has multiple years under contract

Would get fans excited.

any guesses?

Eichel

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Eichel

I'm guessing Ekblad, he said the player didn't play playoff games he didn't say the team didn't

 

[Donnie740]

Eichel

You’d think Dubas learned his lesson about trading for damaged goods when he got ripped off in the Foligno trade.

Surely he won’t make that mistake again with damaged goods Eichel.

 

[hamzarocks]

I'm guessing Ekblad, he said the player didn't play playoff games he didn't say the team didn't

don't have the assets available to get Ekblad.

It would be Matthews + Dermott/Lilijgren for Barkov + Ekblad and leafs aren't dealing Matthews

 

[Marian Gaborik]

Lou went to a terrible islanders team and has gotten past the first round each year! Imagine if we had just kept lou and were never cursed with a stats nerd that knows nothing about pro sports.

Amazing that Lou gets all the credit for Barry Trotz getting the absolute most out of that roster. Meanwhile, the Caps have three straight first round exits since they stupidly let Trotz go.

 

[Donnie740]

Any gm would have failed with this team.

Any GM would never hand out 3 of the 7 highest paid contracts in the league.

Any GM would never pay a #2C who’s never won anything in his life $11m/yr.

Toronto’s problem starts and ends with salary cap mismanagement.

This is 100% self inflicted stupidity by the inexperienced and incompetent little kid pretending he’s a GM.

 

[killer1980]

I’m saying it doesn’t matter neither won. Lou had the advantage of 3 of the top young players in the league on ELC.

that’s a massive advantage and we knew it. From the day Matthews won the calder it was a daily topic on how you need to win when they are on their ELCs like crosby and Kane etc.

lou also had the advantage of a cap going up every year. His teams also had like the least time lost due to injury.

dubas had the advantage of the North division. But the disadvantage of the pandemic.

dubas fans will say imagine what they could do with a rising cap and Matthews and Marner and nylander signed for that cheap.

Lou fans will say imagine if Lou could run a team that didn’t play Boston.

It doesn’t matter. Both are at 0 wins. Who cares. Bottom line is neither won

Even by your way of thinking then it should be, if they fired Lou after 3 years and no playoff wins, they should fire Dubas after 3 years and no playoff wins. (P.S. I still think we had a better chance with Lou).

 

[Prominence]

Any GM would never hand out 3 of the 7 highest paid contracts in the league.

Any GM would never pay a #2C who’s never won anything in his life $11m/yr.
Technically San Jose offered more, but like i said, i was never a fan of this signing. Panarin and bobrovsky also signed for 10 million as well.
Toronto’s problem starts and ends with salary cap mismanagement.
I can give you that.
This is 100% self inflicted stupidity by the inexperienced and incompetent little kid pretending he’s a GM.