LW/RW Kirill Kaprizov - CSKA Moscow, KHL (2015, 135th, MIN)
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TaLoN
Red 5 standing by
well crap. but yeah, i guess we had doubts about signing him or we wouldn't have offered him to Vegas. that whole communication thing. it's extremely unlikely the Wild made no effort to speak with him or his agents whether that's what they say or not. moronic. I'm still under the impression he was only offered up to Vegas because they smelled this happening. And it would be the exact reason Vegas took Tuch, instead.
monsieurthibz
Registered User
Knowing they took a chance and snagged Nikita Gusev from the Bolts, you really think they chose Tuch over him? I doubt he ever was available for Vegas..
What is Gusev's story? I'm unfamiliar so I can't really respond. I wouldn't think Kaprizov would be available either, but I have no reason to doubt the reports he was one of the offered players--maybe there's more to it (like Vegas would send us a pick or something). Whatever the case, there had to be something weird going on. Trying not to be bitter about this and keeping in mind it was a sort of long-shot pick anyway so we're losing nothing. I just don't buy any of the talk that the Wild are somehow responsible for this decision.
monsieurthibz
Registered User
mmm yeah. On the other hand, he never said he would not come over at the end of his contract, and considering his young age, I wouldn't be surprised if he matures up and decides to fly oversee in 3 years or so.
He's ready to play a top 6 role (top 9 at worst) in the NHL. It's not good news for the Wild.
Gusev is a later round pick just like Kaprizov, but at the same age he's had a lot less fanfare and value to him. Right now though he is one of the best pros not in the NHL, under contract with one of the KHL powerhouses and Yzermann officially stated that at this point he wasn't sure if he will ever come over and thus parted ways with him as a prospect.
Wild aren't directly responsible for anything here. It is the whole NHL as such and how things work in it. Young Russians start to realize how many fellow Russians get burried in the NA development system and lose a chance to develop properly. Kaprizov probably gave it a thought. People claiming on this board that he is NHL ready and wouldn't sniff the AHL are no coaches or GMs. The reality for Kaprizov at this age would probably look different. And being probably the most skilled forward on CSKA in the KHL is by far a better place to be than the AHL or NHL bottom six.
yeah, that's pretty solid reasoning and not limited to Russians--Schultz picked the Oilers over Detroit and Minnesota because he was almost guaranteed to go into the development system with the the latter clubs and see a lot of ice with the former. I can't remember the exact wording--and I don't think it held any guarantees--but Fletcher did say Kaprizov would be skating with the big club when he came over, not Iowa. Our scoring was really spread out over the top three lines so not like he'd be "buried" playing on a third line here. Koivu I'd imagine would get all the d zone starts again so chances are good Kaprizov would get some pretty cake matchups on a second or third line.
whatever--no point in complaining about it from the Wild's perspective. Knew this was a possibility, the kid didn't string anyone along, and we still retain his rights.
Solid money AFTER ELC. Solid money with CSKA NOW.
He won't have to wait for anything. He will be earning some serious money in those 3 years. And woт't have to prove anything after that.
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Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I kind of agree with Atas. We had a very bad experience last year with what a NA coach and GM can do to a rookie forward coming from the KHL. Coaches and GM's make up illogical reasons for their decisions, but its still their decisions. I think this what happened to Kuznetsov his first season as well, but I don't know the situation that well.
Thats why I think its best for Kaprizov to wait another season or two. A 20 year old rookie is often treated different than a 22 year old rookie, and then you add to the situation that Russian forwards are stereotyped from the start. Kaprizov will probably have more of a leash coming to the NHL in another few years than he would this season, but what I don't like is how you gotta wait out these KHL contracts. There should be out clauses in these contracts. The KHL is doing these players a disservice when they make them fully honor their contracts. They should come over when they are ready.
Thats why I think its best for Kaprizov to wait another season or two. A 20 year old rookie is often treated different than a 22 year old rookie, and then you add to the situation that Russian forwards are stereotyped from the start. Kaprizov will probably have more of a leash coming to the NHL in another few years than he would this season, but what I don't like is how you gotta wait out these KHL contracts. There should be out clauses in these contracts. The KHL is doing these players a disservice when they make them fully honor their contracts. They should come over when they are ready.
The KHL pays them a lot of money to honor their contracts. It's not like anyone forces their hand to sign them.
vorky
@vorkywh24
- Jan 23, 2010
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How is this bad from KHL perspective? Look at NHL contracts, it is impossible to terminate them, therefore Kuperman had to invite "retirement"
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
So what? You don't think the SHL, Extraliga, Liiga think they pay their players well too? They aren't forced to sign a contract, but these players are put in a situation where they develop in leagues that are inferior for their development like the CHL or they have to guess on how many years their development will be, otherwise they don't get to pick when they join the NHL. I don't think thats good for these players. How can you tell how many years you'll need until you are NHL ready?
I'm all for a free market with leagues. If the KHL can compete with the NHL, they should, but they can't, and its only to the detriment of these players. You want your players to waste prime years of their career in a league thats way inferior to the NHL? Its not a knock on the KHL, its just not as good as the NHL, and when these players are ready to step into the NHL and be very good in the NHL, they should not have to waste those years in an inferior league. That doesn't happen in any other country. They are all allowed to leave because they realize that the NHL is pretty much the super league around the world in hockey.
I didn't say its bad from a KHL perspective, but its bad from a Russian players perspective. Should the KHL care about the players they market as their stars? If the KHL wants to market Kaprizov, Shestyorkin, Sorokin, Samsonov the next few years before these guys head to the NHL, they should be thankful for how they help the KHL, and allow them to go to the NHL when they want.
If NHL paid a decent sum of money for every player they picked, maybe KHL would be more intressted? The sums NHL pay Europe for their players is ludacriss. If I was boss off SHL I would play much tougher against NHL, just because you drafted a player, you dont own him. Until he signs a contract you can´t say a snip, and if you wanna sign our player, you better pay up, beacuse we want some return of our investment.
As mentioned, Minnesota's hands are tied by the CBA. Because of Kaprizov's age, Minnesota has to offer him a three year ELC. The max they can guarantee is 925K at the NHL level and 70K in the AHL. They can offer max bonuses that would raise the contract to 3.775 million (ie, what the top draft picks tend to sign). But Kaprizov would have to have a Panarin level impact to trigger all the bonuses.
Minnesota can't offer more guaranteed money, or offer a one way deal (albeit, they could make some non-binding promises).
vorky
@vorkywh24
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It is not bad for Russian players to play the KHL. That league can you teach a lot, look at Radulov. It is waste of time, from my perspective, to spend years in CHL or AHL. Euros should jump to NA when they are guaranteed the NHL roster spot, no driving a bus in lower NA leagues.
vorky
@vorkywh24
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That is true. I am sure if NHL club come to KHL club and offer 50M USD for a Russian prospect, a KHL club would agree with the transfer. The same applies to other Euro clubs as well.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
We aren't disagreeing, except the roster guarantee. Thats never gonna happen. KHL Clause works fine, its effectively the same thing. If they aren't on the roster, they can go back to Russia. If they like the explanation from the team, they can wait it out however long they want.
I think its to the detriment of young Russian players to go to NA before they are ready, I don't think any young Russian players should join the CHL, unless they aren't highly regarded in Russia and can't break through with KHL teams, but when these players that play in the KHL are ready, I also don't think they should be waiting an extra year or two, like you'll see with the Kaprizov situation, you are seeing with the Sorokin situation, and who knows, maybe Shestyorkin, Samsonov and a few others will join that list? Hockey careers are short. These players should have their situations monitored season by season, and when they think they are ready, the two teams should negotiate a transfer fee, and thats that. The lack of a transfer agreement is used to turn Russian fans against NA fans and NA fans against Russian fans, but it really deprives the players more than anyone. They are put in these situations where they have to choose worse development for their careers when they might not be completely NHL ready in NA or having to wait potentially a few extra years after they are ready.
vorky
@vorkywh24
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Agree with bold part. The problem is that NHL does not want even to hear about such a scenario... The KHL would have no problem with it.
kp61c
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Fantomas
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- Aug 7, 2012
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Pathetic. NHL clubs are spoiled, thinking Russian players should simply jump at the opportunity. It's not the 90s anymore.
what is this from? is it relative to the amount of interest we've shown in non-russian prospects? I know for a fact they are extremely interested and have been since he stated tearing it up. If he was back burner material it's because we were under the assumption he'd play out this next year in Russia regardless. Chuck said he felt he was already ready for an NHL role. We let Brodin play an extra year in Sweden too because that's what he wanted. This team doesn't pressure anyone to veer away from their chosen development path.
BagHead
Registered User
Man, I've been a fan of yours for a while, so I hope this doesn't come off sounding like I'm trying to pick a fight.
I see where you're coming from, but I think it's simply a misconception because of perspective. From where I sit, I've noticed the Wild taking a relatively relaxed approach with all of their prospects, not just Kaprizov. For years the Wild rushed prospects to the NHL and ruined them. Since Fletcher became GM, he's taken a slower approach for the most part, allowing prospects to grow where they are, not pressuring them to go pro, but letting them sign the contract when they're ready. I get that that can look like he's just not interested in a player, or that he expects these guys to be overjoyed to even get the chance, but I really think that's just a communication error. I like Fletcher's approach to developing, but perhaps he needs to communicate his approach with his prospects more accurately, so they don't feel unwanted.
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