LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016, 2nd, WPG) XII

[TDK67]

Comparing Laine to Kane is way off. WAY OFF!!!!

Laine is a smart, skilled player with confidence in his abilities to perform. Kane is nothing but an arrogant grade A ***** bag who thinks he's better than everyone. There's a difference between having personality and thinking of yourself as larger than life. If you can't figure out the difference, I don't know what to say.

And comparing the Winnipeg media to the media in the "center of the universe" is like night and day.

Canadian media is toxic in general. It's the worst in TO but it's still awful in every Canadian market. None of the Canadian MSM is beneath chasing a player out of a market for completely BS reasons.

I like Laine's personality but would not be surprised to see some (not all) MSM not really take to it, because they're dumb like that. If that resulted in toning him down, that would be a real shame since god knows the NHL is starved for players that don't sound like doorknobs in every interview.

 

[TDK67]

Byfuglien makes Kessel look like a media wizard, and he’s easily the Jets most popular player. Besides, Laine seems to be really good with the media. He’s outspoken and interesting without coming off in a negative way.

Agreed, but I can't help fear the MSM being idiots as they've proven repeatedly. And when I say that, I fully expect TO media to grab their pitchforks and start the fires as soon as Matthews/Nylander/Marner struggle.

In other words, none of this is meant to single out Laine. He just might end up an easier target simply because he's putting more of himself out there in the first place (as opposed to the boring, recycled stuff we hear from most players). Which, again, I prefer and appreciate the fact that he does speak openly.

 

[Weezeric]

Agreed, but I can't help fear the MSM being idiots as they've proven repeatedly. And when I say that, I fully expect TO media to grab their pitchforks and start the fires as soon as Matthews/Nylander/Marner struggle.

In other words, none of this is meant to single out Laine. He just might end up an easier target simply because he's putting more of himself out there in the first place (as opposed to the boring, recycled stuff we hear from most players). Which, again, I prefer and appreciate the fact that he does speak openly.

I don't see any other scenario playing out other than laine being beloved by winnipeg. Just by being Finnish and so highly touted, he will always be associated with selanne, the most beloved jet ever.

 

[lomiller1]

Agreed, but I can't help fear the MSM being idiots as they've proven repeatedly. And when I say that, I fully expect TO media to grab their pitchforks and start the fires as soon as Matthews/Nylander/Marner struggle.

In other words, none of this is meant to single out Laine. He just might end up an easier target simply because he's putting more of himself out there in the first place (as opposed to the boring, recycled stuff we hear from most players). Which, again, I prefer and appreciate the fact that he does speak openly.

I’m not sure about other smaller Canadian cities, but there are so few media voices in Winnipeg that actually matter it tends not to be an issue. Most of the coverage toes the team line with an occasional dissenting op-ed that usually can’t be taken too seriously.

If anything Jets players tend to receive far too little criticism. It’s really only when bloggers and smaller web sites get involved (with HF Jets actually being a significant hub) that many players get the criticism they deserve for their on ice work. Off ice even Kane received a fairly high degree of shelter from the Winnipeg media in terms of defending him from unsubstantiated rumors and separating on-ice vs off-ice.

And when I say that, I fully expect TO media to grab their pitchforks and start the fires as soon as Matthews/Nylander/Marner struggle.

IME the TO media tends to go between polar extremes. They either hype player way more than they deserve or pile on and criticism them way more than they deserve with little in between. Unless they look bad beyond belief Matthews/Nylander/Marner will receive the former for at least a couple years.

 

[TDK67]

I’m not sure about other smaller Canadian cities, but there are so few media voices in Winnipeg that actually matter it tends not to be an issue. Most of the coverage toes the team line with an occasional dissenting op-ed that usually can’t be taken too seriously.

If anything Jets players tend to receive far too little criticism. It’s really only when bloggers and smaller web sites get involved (with HF Jets actually being a significant hub) that many players get the criticism they deserve for their on ice work. Off ice even Kane received a fairly high degree of shelter from the Winnipeg media in terms of defending him from unsubstantiated rumors and separating on-ice vs off-ice.


IME the TO media tends to go between polar extremes. They either hype player way more than they deserve or pile on and criticism them way more than they deserve with little in between. Unless they look bad beyond belief Matthews/Nylander/Marner will receive the former for at least a couple years.

Prospects maybe, but I've never seen the TO media overhype the actual NHL players on the Leafs. Even when Kessel was Top 10 in league scoring he was coming out ranked ~40 in the "Top 50 NHL players" lists. Not saying that's wrong, but definitely the opposite of overhyping a player who's actually performing really well.

That said, the team has been hot garbage for a very long time, so it's not like anything was ever conducive to overhype over the years.

 

[93LEAFS]

I don't see any other scenario playing out other than laine being beloved by winnipeg. Just by being Finnish and so highly touted, he will always be associated with selanne, the most beloved jet ever.

Bobby Hull? Dale Hawerchuk?

 

[Plural]

Bobby Hull? Dale Hawerchuk?

I bet it's Selanne.

 

[MardyBum]

It's not Bobby for fans in the know.

Hawerchuk would be good competition.

 

[Hagged]

I bet it's Selanne.

I bet Selanne is more loved than Laine ever will be. However I expect Laine to become the better goalscorer. Easily the best goalscorer Finland has ever produced. Unfortunately Laine didn't stay on Finland until his 22-year old season. We could have seen a new rookie goal scoring record.

 

[Plural]

I bet Selanne is more loved than Laine ever will be. However I expect Laine to become the better goalscorer. Easily the best goalscorer Finland has ever produced. Unfortunately Laine didn't stay on Finland until his 22-year old season. We could have seen a new rookie goal scoring record.

You are kidding right?

 

[Hagged]

You are kidding right?

I really think that Selanne was more loveable as a person. However, time will tell if I am wrong.

 

[Plural]

I really think that Selanne was more loveable as a person. However, time will tell if I am wrong.

I was talking about the latter part. You really expect Laine to turn out to be better goal-scorer in the NHL than Selanne was. He was 5 times in top-5 and led the NHL in goals 3 times. That's in the upper echelon of Hall of Fame players. The rookie record had to be a joke, since under current NHL nobody is breaking that. Let alone a rookie.

 

[kelsier]

Didn't have the time yesterday but there were talks of Laine's appearance and his outspoken approach to media. There's a clear line in between being outspoken and outright cocky. Haven't seen anything so far that would indicate to the latter.

For instance, he doesn't go tell the press "I'm the best hockey player one day" but instead "I want to be the best hockey player in the world". Another one that comes to mind is "I had the best draft season this year and should go first".

He had the best season, made a case for himself and wasn't afraid to say it.

For what I've gathered, Winnipeg's press isn't as close as bad when compared to some other markets. Laine is an intelligent kid that has a personality and isn't afraid to show it. That's something to be cherished instead of being made a mockery of. The type of a player who rises up to occasion on ice and is talkative, easily often end up as fan favourite. Considering the potential and the personality combined, he could be the face of the franchise one day along with possibly being the next Finnish hockey ambassador. Though once again Selänne left a huge task up on the table. Always enjoyed his interviews. He was also smart and loved by everyone.

 

[93LEAFS]

Didn't have the time yesterday but there were talks of Laine's appearance and his outspoken approach to media. There's a clear line in between being outspoken and outright cocky. Haven't seen anything so far that would indicate to the latter.

For instance, he doesn't go tell the press "I'm the best hockey player one day" but instead "I want to be the best hockey player in the world". Another one that comes to mind is "I had the best draft season this year and should go first".

He had the best season, made a case for himself and wasn't afraid to say it.

For what I've gathered, Winnipeg's press isn't as close as bad when compared to some other markets. Laine is an intelligent kid that has a personality and isn't afraid to show it. That's something to be cherished instead of being made a mockery of. The type of a player who rises up to occasion on ice and is talkative, easily often end up as fan favourite. Considering the potential and the personality combined, he could be the face of the franchise one day along with possibly being the next Finnish hockey ambassador. Though once again Selänne left a huge task up on the table. Always enjoyed his interviews. He was also smart and loved by everyone.

Evander Kane probably deserved it, but he got it bad. From rumors about him not tipping, being written up on reputable web-sites, and a lot of bashing on him. Small markets can turn quickly on people, whereas in bigger markets can tend to be overlooked.

This got written up in a major newspaper. Alluding to allegations his concussion was caused by a bar dispute, outright walking out on bills, and other things that the writer didn't source and seemed to be reporting hearsay. This is as bad or worse than Simmons hot dog comments about Kessel, but even that was done after he was traded.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2012/12/19/kane-a-winger-without-a-clue

 

[Hagged]

I was talking about the latter part. You really expect Laine to turn out to be better goal-scorer in the NHL than Selanne was. He was 5 times in top-5 and led the NHL in goals 3 times. That's in the upper echelon of Hall of Fame players. The rookie record had to be a joke, since under current NHL nobody is breaking that. Let alone a rookie.

Yeah that part was mostly kidding, especially the Selanne rookie record. However, I'm intrigued by the prospect of seeing Laine leave Selanne and Kurri in the dust career wise. It will happen some day, and I think Laine has the potential to do that.

 

[Plural]

Yeah that part was mostly kidding, especially the Selanne rookie record. However, I'm intrigued by the prospect of seeing Laine leave Selanne and Kurri in the dust career wise. It will happen some day, and I think Laine has the potential to do that.

I'm on board with that one.

 

[kelsier]

Evander Kane probably deserved it, but he got it bad. From rumors about him not tipping, being written up on reputable web-sites, and a lot of bashing on him. Small markets can turn quickly on people, whereas in bigger markets can tend to be overlooked.

This got written up in a major newspaper. Alluding to allegations his concussion was caused by a bar dispute, outright walking out on bills, and other things that the writer didn't source and seemed to be reporting hearsay. This is as bad or worse than Simmons hot dog comments about Kessel, but even that was done after he was traded.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2012/12/19/kane-a-winger-without-a-clue

Actually thought I'd mention the case of E. Kane before submitting anything but didn't see a reason. Why? Laine is smart enough to know not to go flashing pile of cash and posting a picture of that on a twitter. He's had some issues in the past of course, which actually served him a good lesson. After the junior tournament incident there haven't been anything bad reported about him that I'm aware of. Actually the opposite, he's been praised by pretty much every coach who have worked with him. Kind of glad he got schooled (then instead of something worse later), cause he had a big ego coming along with the talent. He learned that every action has a consequence and he knows he is on the spotlight.

There are different types of people. Some make mistakes and ignore them, some regret and take them as a lesson. Actually learning from mistakes in my opinion is the best way of avoiding them in the future. Laine seems to understand that he's not bigger than people around him, no matter the status on the ice or a headline on the paper (nevermind the actual size). Also one of the good things here is that when you have enough talent you get a ticket to the grown up circles sooner (men's leagues), and the immature stuff or behaviour doesn't get overlooked there.

 

[93LEAFS]

Actually thought I'd mention the case of E. Kane before submitting anything but didn't see a reason. Why? Laine is smart enough to know not to go flashing pile of cash and posting a picture of that on a twitter. He's had some issues in the past of course, which actually served him a good lesson. After the junior tournament incident there haven't been anything bad reported about him that I'm aware of. Actually the opposite, he's been praised by pretty much every coach who have worked with him. Kind of glad he got schooled (then instead of something worse later), cause he had a big ego coming along with the talent. He learned that every action has a consequence and he knows he is on the spotlight.

There are different types of people. Some make mistakes and ignore them, some regret and take them as a lesson. Actually learning from mistakes in my opinion is the best way of avoiding them in the future. Laine seems to understand that he's not bigger than people around him, no matter the status on the ice or a headline on the paper (nevermind the actual size). Also one of the good things here is that when you have enough talent you get a ticket to the grown up circles sooner (men's leagues), and the immature stuff or behaviour doesn't get overlooked there.

Just saying Winnipeg can be as bad as anywhere else in Canada when it comes to media. Only place that I think that prints stuff worse than this is Montreal's Francophone Press. This had nothing to do with Laine, and just to show your assumption about Winnipeg press not being that bad was misguided.

 

[kelsier]

Just saying Winnipeg can be as bad as anywhere else in Canada when it comes to media. Only place that I think that prints stuff worse than this is Montreal's Francophone Press. This had nothing to do with Laine, and just to show your assumption about Winnipeg press not being that bad was misguided.

The Kane incident would have been printed out as some kind of a headline in every place around the Canada I would imagine. Showing out luxurious life that way is idiotic. That said I don't presume to know a lot about the Winnipeg press in general, just painting out impressions while placing Laine into the big picture. You may be right and I guess the Jets fan can correct this pretty easily as well.

Hockey here is as big of a sport as it is in Canada, or comes close to it anyway. While Tampere being one of the biggest cities in the country. He's the golden boy of the town (if not the whole country) at the moment and has accomplished to win a lot of people over. Would imagine the same kind of effect in the Winnipeg.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Laine is one prospect that can play anywhere. Lots of media attention or none. Infact I think the more attention he gets the better he will play. Some athletes thrive on it, some don't.

As for my expectations, all I expect from Laine in his rookie year, is similar goal totals as listed below, as I have seen people say Laine backers in this thread have unrealistic expectations on Laine and are overrating him.

07-08 Kane 21
08-09 Stamkos 23
09-10 Tavares 24
09-10 Hall 22
09-10 Seguin 11
10-11 Landeskog 22
12-13 Mackinnon 21
15-16 Eichel 24

Now I also agree with the premise he may be the best goal scorer since Ovie was last picked once he completes his progression to the NHL where he may become the best player picked from the 2016 draft. Laine has this ceiling.

I don't believe this is overrating him. These expectations are in line to what a prospect will become given reasonable progression. It is a likely projection based on his immense talent, temperament as a player, and his unique accomplishments this draft year.

 

[93LEAFS]

The Kane incident would have been printed out as some kind of a headline in every place around the Canada I would imagine. Showing out luxurious life that way is idiotic. That said I don't presume to know a lot about the Winnipeg press in general, just painting out impressions while placing Laine into the big picture. You may be right and I guess the Jets fan can correct this pretty easily as well.

Hockey here is as big of a sport as it is in Canada, or comes close to it anyway. While Tampere being one of the biggest cities in the country. He's the golden boy of the town (if not the whole country) at the moment and has accomplished to win a lot of people over. Would imagine the same kind of effect in the Winnipeg.

The money stuff would. Its more the reporting of unsubstantiated rumors such as the rumor of him really getting his concussion from a bar fight and walking out on bills at restaurants and clubs. He opened himself on the money with his instagram. All places where hockey is big have hack writers. Leafs have Simmons and Feschuk, and all markets have their equivalents. But what Friesen wrote was way worse than the Simmons piece on Phil's way out, all Simmons did was challenge his professionalism, whereas Friesen was attacking Kane on matters that had nothing to do with on-ice performance.

 

[93LEAFS]

Laine is one prospect that can play anywhere. Lots of media attention or none. Infact I think the more attention he gets the better he will play. Some athletes thrive on it, some don't.

As for my expectations, all I expect from Laine in his rookie year, is similar goal totals as listed below, as I have seen people say Laine backers in this thread have unrealistic expectations on Laine and are overrating him.



Now I also agree with the premise he may be the best goal scorer since Ovie was last picked once he completes his progression to the NHL where he may become the best player picked from the 2016 draft. Laine has this ceiling.

I don't believe this is overrating him. These expectations are in line to what a prospect will become given reasonable progression. It is a likely projection based on his immense talent, temperament as a player, and his unique accomplishments this draft year.

So your not gonna include Skinner?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So your not gonna include Skinner?

What is your purpose of bringing up Skinner who was not picked 1-2 in a draft as Laine was. Are you comparing Laine to Skinner as prospects when they were drafted? Most of us use unbiased logic in looking at similar picks. Not one offs to further their agenda. Do you also disagree with the rest of my post which you ignored? If so, what is unrealistic in any expectations I have of Laine then?

 

[93LEAFS]

What is your purpose of bringing up Skinner who was not picked 1-2 in a draft as Laine was. Are you comparing Laine to Skinner as prospects when they were drafted? Most of us use unbiased logic in looking at similar picks. Not one offs to further their agenda. Do you also disagree with the rest of my post which you ignored? If so, what is unrealistic in any expectations I have of Laine then?

Skinner had the best goal scoring rookie year since Ovi, and Laine is supposed to be the best goal scoring prospect since. He deserves to be mentioned as a reasonable comparrison. Particularly when compared to someone like Seguin who got very limited ice-time, so unless Laine is getting 12 minutes a game its not a good comparrison. Hull actually got good ice-time, but missed 17 games, and was on pace for a 28 goal season.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Skinner had the best goal scoring rookie year since Ovi, and Laine is supposed to be the best goal scoring prospect since. He deserves to be mentioned as a reasonable comparrison. Particularly when compared to someone like Seguin who got very limited ice-time, so unless Laine is getting 12 minutes a game its not a good comparrison. Hull actually got good ice-time, but missed 17 games, and was on pace for a 28 goal season.

Using this logic, any prospect Laine included who hasn't scored like Sknner did in his rookie year falls below him? Which I can only surmise why you brought up Skinner in the first place. In this case, you better make a list of great players picked 1-2 that will not meet this one off standard you have set.

What about the rest of my post you did not address since you again feel it is worthwhile reading my posts. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=121157621&postcount=451

Was there anything unrealistic in what I posted for Laine?