Laine's stock has crashed so hard lately. The knee injury, awful skating in recent games and attitude issues have to dropped him far from the first pick some people were predicting.
LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, FEL (2016 Draft)
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Periwinkle
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Well, I wouldn't draw any conclusions (one way or another) based on the happenings of one month, considering he 1)is two drafts away 2)is coming off an injury, and 3) is playing against men as a 16-year-old, even if on a 2nd tier level. If anything this could be a great wake-up call at the right time, being in an environment he is not the top dog. Again, he has two years to work on his draft position.
kelsier
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You can't expect someone who's missed the whole off-season due a knee injury to be a speed wagon after getting off the sickbay. It's all there. The only thing really hurting the stock is misbehavior, but they've got plenty of time to work on it. Just as he's got time to work his lower body strength and get back to where he was at the end of last season and beyond.
I am aware of that. What I'm worried about is that Laine seems to have same type of mental problems as Armia. Both can dominate when they want to. They just dont seem to want to do it often enough, and its threatening Armia's career at the moment.
EDIT: I'm basing this off Laine's recent play, he could turn my opinion upside down quickly by playing consistently good.
kelsier
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Their mental problems have nothing to do with each other whatsoever. And I really don't get where your drawing these conclusions to be honest. Laine hasn't been showing inconsistancy throughout his career as far as I know. He's taking his first steps into men's rinks right now (4 games is nothing). Takes time to adjust especially while being in recovery mode. If you were expecting him to dominate the 2nd highest level in Finland after the injury then you really had too much expectations in the begin with. Puljujärvi is another story mostly because he had a good off-season. Which was/is the most crusial single element compared these two jumping to next level of the game. Just relax. Seems like Finnish paranoia is stepping in everytime someone isn't showing up on the score boards.
Uhh, I don't think got my point. I didn't say Armia and Laine had anything to do with each other. I pointed that their mental problems are similar (based on what LeKi's coach said about Laine). Both dominate when they want to. Both are great players if they do it regularly. But Laine, so far has done it once out of 4 games. It's early in the season, I know, but with the attitude problems Laine has, there is a reason to worry.
agent082
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It's like everyone wants to teach him a lesson because what happened with national team. People think that mocking and downgrading him will make him more humble.
kelsier
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I suggest you google and compare their Jr level stats. Laine's all around game isn't where it needs to be. That might come off as he's not interested when I doubt that really is the case. From all the interviews the kid hungers for success and by now knows he's not being served on a silver plate. You could see that in the Tappara's exhibition game and he even admitted that it's the area where he needs most work. He's a far greater prospect compared to Armia. The kid is at a good place right now, learning the stuff in Mestis instead of being pressured to perform in the Liga. If you want to worry at this point, go ahead and do so. I prefer to sit back and follow up as he developes.
Ps. Shouldn't someone change the topic. Laine is RW.
agent082
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I meant that suddenly people are extra critical about his chances just because his character doesn't please them. People are overreacting just because they think Laine is a arrogant dirtback. And i'm not talking about people on hfboard but in general.
Still not comparing their skill level. I am pointing out the similar mentality. Laine can obviously change his, but he himself has to realize how stupid he has acted. The source of my worry is his current coaches report, mentioned on last page. He has big attitude problems, lets face it. I just find it hard to brush them off and say " he'll get it together" or "he's just a kid". Of course he'll mature going forward, but I just fear that his problems at the moment hinder his development. And it makes me sad. What a player he would be if he was a bit more like the stereotypical Finnish player.
What similar mentality? Laine just wants to be "the man", star everywhere he plays. He just has the wrong way of showing it.
Armia on the other hand is just lazy and wasting his talent.
kelsier
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You remind me of a relative of who I often find myself going full circles with. She's rather old.
Have a look at JJTT's answer. Perhaps the answers lies somewhere along those lines.
I am SO looking forward to see what this guy turns out to be. "He has an attitude problem blah blah" "Not a stereotypical Finnish mentality" etc. etc. Am I the only Finn that is actually really stoked about this? I mean lets face it, we haven't been able to create that many stars lately with our humble, hardworking methods. Look at Selänne and Rask, probably our only superstars from the recent history. They are not like stereotypical Finns now are they?
There is a small chance Laine becomes a SUPERstar. This chance does not exist for many other players.
There is a small chance Laine becomes a SUPERstar. This chance does not exist for many other players.
I can see why. I can't see how "Laine is one year ahead in development compared to Armia" or "Laine is on a tier above Armia skill-wise" is related to his apparent attitude problems. Since we're comparing each other to our relatives, you do really resemble my aunt; boneheadedly arguing past the point. I'm not answering replies considering Laine's and Armia's skill level.
Well, if he wants to be the man, he should show it more often than once in four games. Hopefully all the positive people are right and he gets a constant motivation to improve, be it beating Puljujärvi or something else.
Periwinkle
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That actually is an interesting topic, whether it is a such a great thing for these physically mature& gifted but young players (Laine and Puljujärvi) to be "hanging in there" at Liiga level (discussion not dissimilar to when thrust gifted young players to NHL from the minors). Of course it develops the overall game, but I'd much rather they had the chance to work on their offensive skills, plenty of time to work on defense- they are still 16, after all. I'd hate for their (projected elite)offensive development stall because of the responsibilities of playing in Liiga. Problem is, they have little prove on junior level.
Perhaps Mestis is the right place to start, it's not like there's so much money and attention that the teams can't afford the occasional game being blown because of inexperienced youngsters, "for the greater good".
EDIT: Just realized you probably meant the attitude issues being worked on- I read your comment as to mean L&P will be forced to the more grinding playing style when playing against men to earn their spot
Well, it's a good topic anyway.
kelsier
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What's been flawed in your logic is that mental disorder A corresponds to B somehow without any reasonable arguments. All you've been able to find to support your claim is by singling out 4 game sample size out of a kid who's never set foot in the adult games before. We have someone who's played season after season of inconsistant hockey that is now 21 years old adult and we have a kid who's 16 years of age and no consistancy issues in the past that should be giving warning signs. One is propably either relying on his skillset too much or (/and) has trouble with his hockey IQ. The other is a mental wanna-be-rock-star that needs to be brought back to the orbit. Don't get what's so hard to comprehend that it takes a few people to repeat and explain the unsimilarities and still getting no where. These replies make less and less sense and in an odd way I find it entertaining.
What's been flawed in your logic is that mental disorder A corresponds to B somehow without any reasonable arguments. All you've been able to find to support your claim is by singling out 4 game sample size out of a kid who's never set foot in the adult games before. We have someone who's played season after season of inconsistant hockey that is now 21 years old adult and we have a kid who's 16 years of age and no consistancy issues in the past that should be giving warning signs. One is propably either relying on his skillset too much or (/and) has trouble with his hockey IQ. The other is a mental wanna-be-rock-star that needs to be brought back to the orbit. Don't get what's so hard to comprehend that it takes a few people to repeat and explain the unsimilarities and still getting no where. These replies make less and less sense and in an odd way I find it entertaining.
What? If I remember correctly, I originally just said that I sensed similarities between Laine's and Armia's cases because of the comments made by his current coach. I didn't really except it to cause this kind of argument, but fine, if it pleases you, I'll admit that drawing such conclusions from a short stint was irrational.
You're right, I didn't really have much arguments, it was just a thought of fear. My original post was this: "I'm a bit worried, sounds like Armia", a reply to someone quoting Laine's coaches sayings about his play lately. I was referring to what we have seen with Armia: huge inconsistency/lack of consistent motivation. I see we have drifted far away from that, starting with JJTT's comment that Laine is better in everything compared to Armia, which I thought had nothing to do with my original post. So, if you'll accept, we'll end this conversation here.
The difference is Armia is a 20 something year old player whose consistency issue has prevented production at the professional level to a degree, against a 16 yr old player who has a grand total of 4 professional games under his belt. Armia has these problems at the pro level, which is an issue. Laine hasn't had any consistency issues at any stage in his career and he's about to go through the biggest transition a player can make. It's an impossible comparison to make. If we are talking attitude ; well again, one is 16, the other is 20+. Laine is also significantly better than Armia was at 16.
If at christmas time Laine has struggled to adjust and the skating hasn't improved, then there is cause for concern. Not in the middle of september. People need to realise, he is just shy of two years away from an NHL draft.
If at christmas time Laine has struggled to adjust and the skating hasn't improved, then there is cause for concern. Not in the middle of september. People need to realise, he is just shy of two years away from an NHL draft.
kelsier
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Seems fair enough. I'm quite sure we have plenty of time to get back on it in the second half of the season if he's still showing immaturity or unable to coop with the adult scenery. It's all just too soon and mostly pointless speculation at this particular point of time, one way or another.
Johno
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That actually is an interesting topic, whether it is a such a great thing for these physically mature& gifted but young players (Laine and Puljujärvi) to be "hanging in there" at Liiga level (discussion not dissimilar to when thrust gifted young players to NHL from the minors). Of course it develops the overall game, but I'd much rather they had the chance to work on their offensive skills, plenty of time to work on defense- they are still 16, after all. I'd hate for their (projected elite)offensive development stall because of the responsibilities of playing in Liiga. Problem is, they have little prove on junior level.
Perhaps Mestis is the right place to start, it's not like there's so much money and attention that the teams can't afford the occasional game being blown because of inexperienced youngsters, "for the greater good".
EDIT: Just realized you probably meant the attitude issues being worked on- I read your comment as to mean L&P will be forced to the more grinding playing style when playing against men to earn their spot
I agree that Mestis would be good league for them to work on their offense against men without having the Liiga level defense expected of them.
And yeah I meant that the attitude problems should be worked out while playing with/against pros. ie not being the star in the locker room anymore.
Horvath Broncos
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I have heard from very reliable source (inside the team) that he acted like a star also in the Tappara's liiga team and many were pretty fed up with him. so his attitude problems are pretty darn bad. It is not too late to adjust his attitude, but something has to be done.
Ville Nieminen would have shown the kid his place...but he is in Lukko now.
