LW Kyle Connor - Michigan, NCAA (2015, 17th, WPG)

[YpsiWings]

^^^

Meh. When I look at that pix I see average hands. Not too small, not too big, four fingers and a thumb -- average. All the awards and high-falutin' statz in the world don't change that.

J

Made me laugh, well done.

 

[NHL Dude 120]

So is he going to go pro or stay another year in Michigan?

 

[allan5oh]

I'm gonna a guess pro. He will have a spot for him on the jets.

 

[lomiller1]

By why compare Connor and Eichel if Connor was playing NCAA last year then you can compare them. He is a full year older.

Again not a full year. It’s no different than comparing an early birth date in an NHL draft year to a late birth date in the same NHL draft year. E.G. Auston Matthews is 8 months older than Jesse Puljujärvi, 9 months older than Dante Fabbro, and 10 months older than Clayton Keller. Should we not compare his year to the years these players are having because of the age difference?

Connor is in his freshman year, and he is in the normal age group for freshman. He didn’t redshirt or otherwise delay entry to university, this is simply the first year he would normally be in university given his birth date. It makes him one of the older players in that year just as Auston Matthews birth date makes him one of the older players eligible for this year’s draft. Yes there are adjustments that can be made based on players being older or younger within their year but you can still compare those years.

 

[Duke749]

So is he going to go pro or stay another year in Michigan?

There is a certain Jets poster who says he will put a ton of money on him being on the Jets next year. He does have some connections and while he can't confirm anything, I'd be inclined to bet with him. The way he has played this year I just don't see how another year in college can really help him.

 

[Romang67]

I said above average, meaning for a 1st round pick. Do you have a clip that shows otherwise? And don't show me a saucer pass...

White has the equally good speed and he makes good things happen every shift, I don't see a big dropoff in offensive ability, maybe a little. Boeser needs to improve his skating but has better hands and shot. All 3 have good hockey sense and are good prospects. I've seen them play a fair bit and that's my assessment. I tend to ignore the points at lower levels. Heck even in the NHL I don't think points are a terrific measure of offensive ability.

Again with the preemptive strike! Good job!

Ignoring the numbers does indeed help to explain away the 21 point and 12 goals difference this season.

 

[Kismet]

I said above average, meaning for a 1st round pick. Do you have a clip that shows otherwise? And don't show me a saucer pass...

White has the equally good speed and he makes good things happen every shift, I don't see a big dropoff in offensive ability, maybe a little. Boeser needs to improve his skating but has better hands and shot. All 3 have good hockey sense and are good prospects. I've seen them play a fair bit and that's my assessment. I tend to ignore the points at lower levels. Heck even in the NHL I don't think points are a terrific measure of offensive ability.

So, I take it you've seen that video, then? Passing doesn't qualify for showing good hands, points don't indicate offensive ability...interesting.

 

[Stream*]

I said above average, meaning for a 1st round pick. Do you have a clip that shows otherwise? And don't show me a saucer pass...

White has the equally good speed and he makes good things happen every shift, I don't see a big dropoff in offensive ability, maybe a little. Boeser needs to improve his skating but has better hands and shot. All 3 have good hockey sense and are good prospects. I've seen them play a fair bit and that's my assessment. I tend to ignore the points at lower levels. Heck even in the NHL I don't think points are a terrific measure of offensive ability.

If Boeser had better hands and a better shot than Connor, you would think he would at least be considered for the Hobey Baker award, but he was not even one of the 66 players nominated. That's a lot of players., pretty well 3 full teams worth of players ahead of him...and who even knows if he was in the top 100. I guess saucer passes are a little more valuable than some think.

http://www.hobeybaker.com/awards/the-hobey-baker-memorial-award/v4h/

 

[WaltWhitman]

If Boeser had better hands and a better shot than Connor, you would think he would at least be considered for the Hobey Baker award, but he was not even one of the 66 players nominated. That's a lot of players., pretty well 3 full teams worth of players ahead of him...and who even knows if he was in the top 100. I guess saucer passes are a little more valuable than some think.

http://www.hobeybaker.com/awards/the-hobey-baker-memorial-award/v4h/

Ryan Duncan won the Hobey Baker over his linemates TJ Oshie and Jonathan Toews, so don't put too much stock in it

 

[Stream*]

Ryan Duncan won the Hobey Baker over his linemates TJ Oshie and Jonathan Toews, so don't put too much stock in it

Ya but Duncan was a 5'6" twenty one year old player that played on the same line as Toews and Oshie, and was the trigger man on that line. He scored 14 more goals than either of them Toews or Oshie that year. Everyone knew he would never make the NHL. Connor just turned 19, is 6'1 and is leading the nation in pretty well every category, as a freshman. Comparison between Duncan and Connor is the biggest stretch I have ever seen on here.

 

[Hobby Bull]

Or the fact Eichel was a year younger.

Oh. So Eichel is draft eligible THIS year? Help me. I must be bad at mathematics.

 

[BIitz]

Oh. So Eichel is draft eligible THIS year? Help me. I must be bad at mathematics.

Yeah the Sabres exploited a loophole in the rule book known as the "Eich-hole". The NHL ended it but he was supposed to be drafted this year!

 

[Hobby Bull]

Yeah the Sabres exploited a loophole in the rule book known as the "Eich-hole". The NHL ended it but he was supposed to be drafted this year!

OK. I snickered out loud. Close enough.

 

[93LEAFS]

Oh. So Eichel is draft eligible THIS year? Help me. I must be bad at mathematics.

Don't get your point, Eichel was a year younger when he was a freshman and won the Hobey Baker, which is what was being discussed. Connor is older than most people in their freshmen year (even if its by a few weeks in the case of White), almost all the top 96's were freshmen last year (Eichel, Larkin, Schmaltz, Tuch, etc), and even some 97's fast tracked (Werenski and Hanifin). It is rare for a prospect of Connor's profile to play 3 USHL years before entering college.

 

[Hobby Bull]

Don't get your point, Eichel was a year younger when he was a freshman and won the Hobey Baker, which is what was being discussed. Connor is older than most people in their freshmen year (even if its by a few weeks in the case of White), almost all the top 96's were freshmen last year (Eichel, Larkin, Schmaltz, Tuch, etc), and even some 97's fast tracked (Werenski and Hanifin). It is rare for a prospect of Connor's profile to play 3 USHL years before entering college.

Oh, I see. Thanks.

 

[WaltWhitman]

Ya but Duncan was a 5'6" twenty one year old player that played on the same line as Toews and Oshie, and was the trigger man on that line. He scored 14 more goals than either of them Toews or Oshie that year. Everyone knew he would never make the NHL. Connor just turned 19, is 6'1 and is leading the nation in pretty well every category, as a freshman. Comparison between Duncan and Connor is the biggest stretch I have ever seen on here.

Cool story bro.

But I wasn't comparing Connor to Duncan.

Although since Duncan has won a Hobey Baker Award and Connor hasn't, you have to admit, by your own logic, that Duncan is better, right?

 

[lomiller1]

Don't get your point, Eichel was a year younger when he was a freshman and won the Hobey Baker, which is what was being discussed. Connor is older than most people in their freshmen year (even if its by a few weeks in the case of White), almost all the top 96's were freshmen last year (Eichel, Larkin, Schmaltz, Tuch, etc), and even some 97's fast tracked (Werenski and Hanifin). It is rare for a prospect of Connor's profile to play 3 USHL years before entering college.

By that logic we should dismiss the year Aston Mathews should not go first overall is having because he’s older than most players in this draft. Except for Eichel those players are all in their draft +2 years, and were freshman in their draft +1 years. Connor is in his draft + 1 year right now and barring accelerating of his high school education this is the first year he could play in the NCAA.

Trying to frame him as an “older player†is simply not an honest representation of the fact.

 

[Stream*]

Cool story bro.

But I wasn't comparing Connor to Duncan.

Although since Duncan has won a Hobey Baker Award and Connor hasn't, you have to admit, by your own logic, that Duncan is better, right?

Was Duncan nominated as a freshman? Did he score at the same rate as Connor in his freshman season?

 

[WaltWhitman]

Was Duncan nominated as a freshman? Did he score at the same rate as Connor in his freshman season?

Im with you on Duncan vs Connor, I was just making a point about the Hobey Baker Award, in general.

It's not an award for the player with the most NHL potential.

 

[WpgBuffan]

By that logic we should dismiss the year Aston Mathews should not go first overall is having because he’s older than most players in this draft. Except for Eichel those players are all in their draft +2 years, and were freshman in their draft +1 years. Connor is in his draft + 1 year right now and barring accelerating of his high school education this is the first year he could play in the NCAA.

Trying to frame him as an “older player†is simply not an honest representation of the fact.

There are a lot of people who are saying that the Finn's have room to grow because of their birthdates compared to Mathews.

Eichel started playing college when he was 17 and then turned 18. Connor started playing at 18 and then turned 19. Why is this so hard for you to understand.

 

[Stream*]

Im with you on Duncan vs Connor, I was just making a point about the Hobey Baker Award, in general.

It's not an award for the player with the most NHL potential.

Sorry about that, I misinterpreted.

 

[WaltWhitman]

Sorry about that, I misinterpreted.

No worries,I'm sorry that I was a sarcastic **** about it

 

[lomiller1]

Eichel started playing college when he was 17 and then turned 18. Connor started playing at 18 and then turned 19. Why is this so hard for you to understand.

Most freshmen start university at 18. Why is this so difficult for you to understand. A few, students, like Eichel turn 18 shortly after the school year starts, a few, like Connor miss that chance by a month or two.

No matter what cut-off date you use this you end up with players who can be nearly a year different in age grouped together. Regardless of their exact age Connor is grouped properly with his freshman class and Eichel was grouped properly with his. You can’t just move the goalposts and pick a different cut-off date because you want to downplay the achievements of a player.

Yes it’s worth considering when a player was born within their year when comparing them, but what you are saying is that you shouldn’t compare them at all which is wrong.

 

[93LEAFS]

By that logic we should dismiss the year Aston Mathews should not go first overall is having because he’s older than most players in this draft. Except for Eichel those players are all in their draft +2 years, and were freshman in their draft +1 years. Connor is in his draft + 1 year right now and barring accelerating of his high school education this is the first year he could play in the NCAA.

Trying to frame him as an “older player” is simply not an honest representation of the fact.

Did i ever say dismiss it? And it has nothing to do with Matthew's nice straw-man argument. I said Eichel was a year younger when he accomplished what he did. All i said is he is older than most of the top freshmen, which is true, I just picked the more notable names, for example 2015 2nd round pick AJ Greer was born 7 days after Connor and was a frosh last year. It is rare for a guy of Connor's talents to play 3 USHL years, and that is not a misrepresentation. Most talented late birthdays are either in college or another league in their draft year instead of the USHL (Eichel, Kessel, Kane, Oleksiak, Colin Wilson, Schroeder, Matthews, Tkachuk, Mitera, S. Jones, Deangelo, Hartman, Fowler, Sheahan, Gagner, Foligno), the only first round late birthdays who played in the USHL there draft year are John Moore, Connor, Pacioretty and Jordan Schmaltz, so it is uncommon, you can add Brock Nelson, Niskanen and Oshie if you are including HS kids. There have also been a bunch of early birthdays who played in college there draft year (Pokulok, Toews, Jim O'Brien, Hanifin and Werenski). That is looking at all the drafts since the 04/05 lockout. Most high end freshman play in what would be their 3rd year of jr elgiability, that is not a misleading statement.

 

[lomiller1]

Did i ever say dismiss it? And it has nothing to do with Matthew's nice straw-man argument. I said Eichel was a year younger when he accomplished what he did. All i said is he is older than most of the top freshmen, which is true

He’s within the normal age range for NCAA freshmen. It may be appropriate to say a player has an early or late birth date similar to the terminology used with NHL draft year. It’s very misleading to say older as that implies he should have been a freshman last year, which isn’t the case.