LW Arthur Kaliyev (2019, 33rd, LAK)

[kings11]

Several reasons he dropped:

Low level of competeness, limited internal drive to succeed, pretty average skater.

This is laughable
1- His compete level on defense is one thing but on O he's clearly among the best.
2- Limited internal drive? WTF, can you see taht with your superman vision or is taht some BS you just came up with?
3- Yes, he's an average skater with a choppy stride but his short area quick, agility and edge allow him to get open and get off his shot pretty often..

4- Stop making stuff up, you sound like an ass

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

Several reasons he dropped:

Low level of competeness, limited internal drive to succeed, pretty average skater.

If this kid got 50 goals and 100 points as a 17 year old on a meh team without trying to compete/succeed I’d love to see what he can do with the right motivation.

 

[Killerjas]

This is laughable
1- His compete level on defense is one thing but on O he's clearly among the best.
2- Limited internal drive? WTF, can you see taht with your superman vision or is taht some BS you just came up with?
3- Yes, he's an average skater with a choppy stride but his short area quick, agility and edge allow him to get open and get off his shot pretty often..

4- Stop making stuff up, you sound like an ass

I am quoting a scouting report from hockeyprospect.com, so no, I am not making stuff up. You are obviously biased but that's okay since he plays for your team.

 

[AmericanDream]

Several reasons he dropped (according to several scouts I follow):

Low level of competeness, limited internal drive to succeed, pretty average skater.

his compete level was/has been questioned..his skating was an issue for some as well..typically those are two concerns/issues that can be worked on/fixed to a certain degree..scoring 50 plus goals however is not something that can be taught.

the internal drive thing though is flat out bullshit (not directed at you, as I heard some suggest this as well)..from this kids coaches to teammates he is absolutely loved on and off the ice..he is literally a rink rat that has to be forced off the ice because he practices on his skills day in and day out...that is 100% internal drive - sometimes when a narrative or two is out there (skating/compete) people try to lump other shit on a player as well..this kid has zero internal drive issues...the rest is on the table and up to him to disprove at the next level.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If this kid got 50 goals and 100 points as a 17 year old on a meh team without trying to compete/succeed I’d love to see what he can do with the right motivation.

Yeah our assistant GM Mike Futa had some quotes to that, basically said he's a great kid and has done so much already, now imagine what it will be like when he learns to be a pro day in and day out, fitness, focus, etc.

You can't teach his talent. If he's doing that much without the benefit of development and pro fitness (and if you put any stock into the 'motivation' theor), imagine what he can do with it.

 

[vancityluongo]

If this kid got 50 goals and 100 points as a 17 year old on a meh team without trying to compete/succeed I’d love to see what he can do with the right motivation.

100%. This is the weirdest hockey trope by far.

"Yeah, he's been incredibly successful, but he doesn't try very hard, so we don't like him."

Look at any other industry in the planet, and people achieving high levels of success with low levels of effort are called "efficient", "genius" and "innovative."

In hockey, they're "do not draft" Unless they're at Ryan Pilon levels of apathy/ready to retire, or have some serious legal/off-ice issues that could project to inhibiting their career, it really just doesn't make sense.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

Yeah our assistant GM Mike Futa had some quotes to that, basically said he's a great kid and has done so much already, now imagine what it will be like when he learns to be a pro day in and day out, fitness, focus, etc.

You can't teach his talent. If he's doing that much without the benefit of development and pro fitness (and if you put any stock into the 'motivation' theor), imagine what he can do with it.

Yeah I’m pretty baffled by it. Obviously working hard, physical play, and defence are important but talent trumps all of that. Even if Kailyev does bust he’s worth the pick as a low 1st/high 2nd gotta swing for the fences.

100%. This is the weirdest hockey trope by far.

"Yeah, he's been incredibly successful, but he doesn't try very hard, so we don't like him."

Look at any other industry in the planet, and people achieving high levels of success with low levels of effort are called "efficient", "genius" and "innovative."

In hockey, they're "do not draft"

I think there are just far to many scouts and general managers that over analyze young players they end up focusing to much on red flags they completely forget that the kid scored a ton.

 

[McDNicks17]

I think there are just far to many scouts and general managers that over analyze young players they end up focusing to much on red flags they completely forget that the kid scored a ton.

I definitely think there's an issue with hockey people focusing so much on what a player can't do that they don't even notice what they can do.

That's why I was kind of comparing Kaliyev to Kessel last year. Sure, he might look a little lazy and awkward, but that doesn't make his points any less valuable.

 

[Albatros]

Kessel has been valuable in the playoffs despite his sloppy regular season play, not convinced yet that Kaliyev will be.

 

[McDNicks17]

Kessel has been valuable in the playoffs despite his sloppy regular season play, not convinced yet that Kaliyev will be.

As a Bulldog and future King, we might have to wait 10 years to test out that theory haha.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Kaliyev could still bust. I think where he was drafted is a joke, and he should've been a top 15 pick, but putting up a better version of his 2018-19 season doesn't prove the scouts wrong. He's going to have to prove it over the course of an NHL career. And there's still a chance that Kaliyev is a good scorer in the NHL, but lacks in other areas, and therefore isn't as valuable as his scoring might otherwise be.

 

[AmericanDream]

As a Bulldog and future King, we might have to wait 10 years to test out that theory haha.

lol...yep...baby steps..

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Kaliyev could still bust. I think where he was drafted is a joke, and he should've been a top 15 pick, but putting up a better version of his 2018-19 season doesn't prove the scouts wrong. He's going to have to prove it over the course of an NHL career. And there's still a chance that Kaliyev is a good scorer in the NHL, but lacks in other areas, and therefore isn't as valuable as his scoring might otherwise be.

Pretty much.

As long as a player hasnt hit NHL surface, nobody is wrong yet.

Look at all those high scoring junior players who failed as a pro. AHL already, not even NHL.

I thought Dmitri Jaskin would tear up the league as well.

We have to be patient.

 

[MS]

I think there are just far to many scouts and general managers that over analyze young players they end up focusing to much on red flags they completely forget that the kid scored a ton.

My favourite example of this was of an interview a scouting staff had with Anthony Mantha in his draft year, as reported by Gare Joyce if memory serves.

Mantha had scored 50 goals that year, but in the interview the scouting staff raked Mantha over the coals and told him that if he wasn't goal-sucking he wouldn't even have scored 20 goals. And given that Mantha scored 15 goals on the PP which wouldn't have been affected by defensive effort, that scouting director legitimately thought he would have scored only 5 ES goals if he was playing harder defensively. Which is insane.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

My favourite example of this was of an interview a scouting staff had with Anthony Mantha in his draft year, as reported by Gare Joyce if memory serves.

Mantha had scored 50 goals that year, but in the interview the scouting staff raked Mantha over the coals and told him that if he wasn't goal-sucking he wouldn't even have scored 20 goals. And given that Mantha scored 15 goals on the PP which wouldn't have been affected by defensive effort, that scouting director legitimately thought he would have scored only 5 ES goals if he was playing harder defensively. Which is insane.

Lmao I’ve never heard that story before but it does not surprise me. And not surprisingly Mantha dropped in the draft (how does a 6’5 50 goal scorer not go top ten?) also not surprisingly he turned into a top line winger in the NHL.

 

[MS]

Lmao I’ve never heard that story before but it does not surprise me. And not surprisingly Mantha dropped in the draft (how does a 6’5 50 goal scorer not go top ten?) also not surprisingly he turned into a top line winger in the NHL.

It was ridiculous even at the time.

Mantha's size/skill/shot/skating package was something you normally don't see outside of the top 5 picks of a draft. Did he need to work on his three-zone game? Absolutely. But it shouldn't have bumped him past the 8-12 range of the draft. Instead he drops to 20 and goes behind low-upside grinder prospects like Lazar and Rychel and a 30-point CHL defender in Mueller. Just rank stupidity.

 

[Mats26]

The only reason he dropped is because he has a debilitating injury that will pop up in his D+3 year and only the Kings Scouts\Doctors didn't know about it.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Has scored a goal in 8 of 10 games this season. 11+10=21 (2.10 ppg) +2, with 53 shots on goal.

11th goal of the season: Ontario Hockey League – Official Site of the Ontario Hockey League
(he looks taller what 6 foot 2, if you ask me)

 

[King'sPawn]

Also leading the OHL in scoring.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Also leading the OHL in scoring.

Indeed.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Kaliyev could still bust. I think where he was drafted is a joke, and he should've been a top 15 pick, but putting up a better version of his 2018-19 season doesn't prove the scouts wrong. He's going to have to prove it over the course of an NHL career. And there's still a chance that Kaliyev is a good scorer in the NHL, but lacks in other areas, and therefore isn't as valuable as his scoring might otherwise be.

Brandon Pirri comes to mind.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kaliyev could still bust. I think where he was drafted is a joke, and he should've been a top 15 pick, but putting up a better version of his 2018-19 season doesn't prove the scouts wrong. He's going to have to prove it over the course of an NHL career. And there's still a chance that Kaliyev is a good scorer in the NHL, but lacks in other areas, and therefore isn't as valuable as his scoring might otherwise be.

Pretty much.

As long as a player hasnt hit NHL surface, nobody is wrong yet.

Look at all those high scoring junior players who failed as a pro. AHL already, not even NHL.

I thought Dmitri Jaskin would tear up the league as well.

We have to be patient.

Sure, but if he didn't improve/pick up the scoring this year, people would be all over him.

It's not a no-win situation until he hits the NHL surface. Dude is only getting better. It's okay to talk about him and project him before he turns pro.

I don't think anyone is under delusions that he's gonna be some 5-tool NHLer, only that he's an absolute scoring machine.

 

[kyle44]

It was ridiculous even at the time.

Mantha's size/skill/shot/skating package was something you normally don't see outside of the top 5 picks of a draft. Did he need to work on his three-zone game? Absolutely. But it shouldn't have bumped him past the 8-12 range of the draft. Instead he drops to 20 and goes behind low-upside grinder prospects like Lazar and Rychel and a 30-point CHL defender in Mueller. Just rank stupidity.

Mantha is a classic example of over analyzing by NHL scouts and executives. Shocking that he is scoring in the NHL considering, you know, that he was one of the most prolific junior goal scorers of the last decade. Sometimes I wonder if they prefer off the board picks to prove they are smarter if they turn out. A 6'5 50 goal scorer is too easy for them. Would not surprise me one bit if Kaliyev turns out to be a similar case.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Brandon Pirri comes to mind.

Okay, but Brandon Pirri only played a couple years of Junior A, and wasn't even the leading scorer on his Midget AAA teams. Edit: though he doubled up a teammate one year in Junior A.

I get the sentiment but I don't think that's a good comparable. Kaliyev has done more at the junior level and with little support.

A guy like Toffoli isn't a great skater and he doesn't even have some of Kaliyev's arsenal--and when he's on his game he's a useful player even when he's not scoring (last year nonwithstanding).

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Sure, but if he didn't improve/pick up the scoring this year, people would be all over him.

It's not a no-win situation until he hits the NHL surface. Dude is only getting better. It's okay to talk about him and project him before he turns pro.

I don't think anyone is under delusions that he's gonna be some 5-tool NHLer, only that he's an absolute scoring machine.

RJ, I am terribly excited about Kaliyev.

I dont think anything we both said is very negative.

Brandon Pirri, that’s basically trolling at this point, yes. I even have a soft spot for Pirri.