Time will tell. Both guys took a tumble in the draft. Reminds me of Nichushkin ( sp? ) too. Man, I was thinking ( pre-draft ) this NIC Kid HAS IT ALL !
LW Anthony Mantha - Val d'Or, QMJHL (2013, 20th overall, Detroit)
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Time will tell. Both guys took a tumble in the draft. Reminds me of Nichushkin ( sp? ) too. Man, I was thinking ( pre-draft ) this NIC Kid HAS IT ALL !
Not entirely sure how the discussion got to comparing Mantha and Grigs, but having watched both play in the Q and in the world juniors, I'd much rather have Mantha as a prospect than Grigorenko.
As a moose fan, I hate both of these guys. But I can honestly say that in the dozen or so opportunities I've had to see Grigorenko play live, he has never impressed me. Considering the points he puts up, maybe that's a good thing? Often, centres who are good on the forecheck and have the skill to make good plays can do so without getting much attention... Regardless, I can tell you that every time I've see Mantha play (only twice, live), you know when he's on the ice. He seems much more dangerous, and always seems to have the puck on his stick. If I could draft one of them today for my NHL club? I'd be taking Mantha.
As a moose fan, I hate both of these guys. But I can honestly say that in the dozen or so opportunities I've had to see Grigorenko play live, he has never impressed me. Considering the points he puts up, maybe that's a good thing? Often, centres who are good on the forecheck and have the skill to make good plays can do so without getting much attention... Regardless, I can tell you that every time I've see Mantha play (only twice, live), you know when he's on the ice. He seems much more dangerous, and always seems to have the puck on his stick. If I could draft one of them today for my NHL club? I'd be taking Mantha.
Actually, I'd like to see Mantha and Grigs on the same line - could be interesting. Grigs has a very good shot but is also an amazing playmaker whereas Drouin (as Mantha's C in the WJC) almost never gave the puck to Mantha. Not to mention Grigs is also not the smallest C out there.
As a Red Wings fan, I'd be thrilled if Holland managed to get Grigs. Maybe letting BUF mishandle him some more and then get him for way less than he's worth.
Grigs would be exactly what DET needs - a 1st line C prospect. I don't think Jarnkrok fits that bill and there's nobody else even close to that.
As a Red Wings fan, I'd be thrilled if Holland managed to get Grigs. Maybe letting BUF mishandle him some more and then get him for way less than he's worth.
Grigs would be exactly what DET needs - a 1st line C prospect. I don't think Jarnkrok fits that bill and there's nobody else even close to that.
If Mantha keeps on developing so well as of now (I certainly hope so), he will play the 2014/2015 season in the AHL and might be deemed ready for a full-time NHL spot in 2015/2016. Jurco needed only a few months of strong AHL performances to be trusted with an extended NHL stint; Mantha seems to be more talented than him.
Zetterberg will be(come) 35 in 2015 and Datsyuk 37; both are top line centers with playmaking abilites and elite defensive skills, which might be very helpful to compensate for Mantha's shortcomings in this department. Weiss and Helm will be under contract as well. So I do not see a glaring necessity to acquire Grigorenko in order to have a suitable center for Mantha. The better Mantha develops (which also includes filling out his frame), the more likely he will play with one of Detroit's top centers.
Gruß,
BSHH
WesNichols14
Registered User
Mantha was the Hockeys Future Prospect of the month for December.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/102425/hf-prospect-of-the-month-for-december-2013/
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/102425/hf-prospect-of-the-month-for-december-2013/
canucksfan100
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- Apr 3, 2007
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He remind anyone else of Rick Nash? good size, loves to use power move, not really physical, good hands.
The Zetterberg Era
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Pretty amazing Mantha has turned this team into a contender going for it. Went out and got a goalie and a D-man to make a push. Most of us Wings fans were pretty certain he would be moved at the QMJHL deadline entering this season. I know he isn't alone in making this happen but he is the primary reason, what a season he is having so far.
More like Neal/Pacioretty/JVR to me. Nash controls the play more than those guys and is more multi-dimensionally offensively. Mantha could end up like that but to me right now he looks more like the others.
Ohashi_Jouzu*
Registered User
I think between you two you might have narrowed down the range of his potential pretty well with some good comparables. Not as slick or smooth (read: talented) as Slick Rick, imo, but could produce in the range of the others.
UpGoesRupp
Registered User
I think he's like a young Jeff carter. In fact, I could see him rounding out to be Jeff carter haha
Hopefully he plays tonight.
Amusing stat: even after being gone for the WJC, Mantha still leads in points by 10 and is tied for the goal scoring lead. (Which, props to Anthony Duclair as that is a LOT of goals.)
Amusing stat: even after being gone for the WJC, Mantha still leads in points by 10 and is tied for the goal scoring lead. (Which, props to Anthony Duclair as that is a LOT of goals.)
The Zetterberg Era
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I have liked Carter for a while now as a comparison. Either him or Neal is kind of what I am seeing when I watch him in terms of a best case scenario.
Back in the lineup. Being honored for taking part in the WJC for team Canada. Interesting tidbit, for the Q, Val d'Or is the team with the most players to be part of team Canada.
SimplySolace
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The Iron Goalie
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And the Mantha train just keeps on rollin, rollin, rollin...can't wait for this guy to make the NHL one day!
Heraldic
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- Dec 12, 2013
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That was my bad, because I remembered wrong. But it really doesn't change the point. And I didn't say Grigorenko was dominating "the same way". I said Grigorenko dominated when he played and Mantha dominates now. In fact it is more brutal to their development the more they dominate, so you're not exactly speaking to your favor.
Now that the tournament is over we can evaluate some things. First of all, in the playoffs Mantha scored only one goal - and that was against Switzerland. When it mattered the most, Mantha disappeared - almost totally. The quarter-finals-game against Finland was plain awfull from Mantha. When Drouin got his misconduct penalty, Mantha was almost useless on the powerplay. He was floating like always, made careless blind passes in the o-ozone (one that eventually led to Ristolainen's goal), had bad turnovers in the neutral-zone. When Canada was desperately trying to tie the game and need scoring, Mantha was demoted from the first line and replaced by Leer. The Bronze medal game wasn't too good from him either. Sure the whole Canada team sucked really badly, but Mantha didn't show anything to separate him being "the best forward" - in fact it was the opposite.
I was wrong with Laughton but definitely not with Drouin.
Maybe you should read my post again. Some wings-fan was hilarously stating that it will be certain that Mantha will be the better player. And you just can't forecast their developement certain. So if they both round their holes, Grigorenko, as a center, will be more valuable player - that's all.
And yes, as a sabre fan I'm really worried about Grigorenko, though he surprised me positively with his defensive game in the tournament.
Would you quote me saying that Grigorenko is "ahead of Mantha"? And I don't think you can say that Mantha dominated anything. Well, he sure scored against countries like Norway and such, but does that really mean anything when he almost totally disappeared when it mattered the most?
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Heraldic
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Let me elaborate it a bit.
The more one player dominates at a level that is pretty far from the top level (Junior level is always a lot different thing than NHL level), the more comfortable they become. The environment isn't really challenging and it doesn't force you to do everything in order to be better, more advanced. That's especially the case if the player isn't exactly the most hard working type of guy (on or off the ice). In addition to that, being in the junior level, when it isn't really challenging enough, can imprint some patterns that are typical in junior level but not desirable at all at the pro level.
That's the most important reason why the Sabres have been so hesitant to but Grigorenko back to the juniors. Grigorenko may not have been able to play in a role that is most suitable for him, but his eyes has been totally opened to the fact that the level of effort he has had, is not enough at all. That fact is a lot more important for his developement than putting up big numbers in junior level.
DatsyukToZetterberg
Alligator!
Well that goes against the entire Red Wings philosophy in general. The Wings generally don't move a player up a level until they have completely dominated at their current level. It happened to Tatar, Nyquist, Smith & it'll happen to Jurco & Mantha as well.
I understand that we all have differing opinions but to state that as a fact is completely wrong especially when the Wings have been successful doing the exact thing you said would hurt their youth. Yes sometimes they do take too long to promote them, looking at Nyquist, Tatar & Jurco, but none of these players have been hurt by it.
Really it comes down to the coaches & GMs to make sure that their prospect is developing the skills he needs to get to become a successful pro. While it's harder to do it at the CHL level you can still visit the player & talk to them about their game, what you like, what you want them to improve on, and of course at the AHL level it's much easier to watch them & communicate with them. If the GM or head scouts aren't doing this then they are setting their players up to have a rough adjustment to the pro game & possibly setting them up for failure.
Coaches Coroner
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Who are some players that have had their development significantly damaged due to dominating their junior league?
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newfy
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Im not going to reply to everything you said, its too long of a post to go through and do that but for the most part you basically said he disappeared in the playoffs..
The whole god damned team didnt even show up the entire tournament. Without Mantha there that Canada team would have barely won a game. Yeah he scored all his points against "weak" teams like Slovakia. Has it ever occurred to anyone that if Mantha didnt have a massive 4 point game to get the come back win, Canada would have lost against "weak" slovakia. Or when he got the game winner I believe, and kick started the offense against the USA.
Yeah, Mantha scored against the weak teams as well (hatrick against the Germans) but if theyre so easy why didnt anyone else on the team light them up? Because Mantha was the only guy that brought his game to that tourney pretty much.
Yeah he didnt score much in the last two games but neither did a single other player on the team. The lack of secondary scoring allowed teams to cue in on the Mantha Drouin line. Mantha is the last person anyone should be saying didnt show up when it mattered. They wouldnt have beat Slovakia without him for god's sake and likely not the States.
As for you acting like he relied on Drouin or something for his offense, thats ridiculous. Go back and watch the games, Drouin should be thanking Mantha more for his production than the other way around
I honestly have never heard such a false "argument" in my entire life.
Their are COUNTLESS examples of players who had their development ruined by being "brought up too early" (I know you've heard this term), while there is virtually 0 examples of a player being ruined by playing in lower leagues for longer.
Being the best player in a league is never a bad thing, especially when you're only 19 years old.
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