OT: Los Angeles Angels Talk

[TheGoodShepard1]

This team with a semi-competent manager and not a complete dipshit would be close to 10 over .500, if not there. Nevin just gives away games in the most mind-boggling of ways, not to mention just how poorly coached they are in a general sense

 

[Hockey Duckie]

This team with a semi-competent manager and not a complete dipshit would be close to 10 over .500, if not there. Nevin just gives away games in the most mind-boggling of ways, not to mention just how poorly coached they are in a general sense

Dunno why we kept Nevin, besides his connection to GM Minisian? Could have went after Bochy. Instead, the Rangers lured him.

 

[ADHB]

Dunno why we kept Nevin, besides his connection to GM Minisian? Could have went after Bochy. Instead, the Rangers lured him.

Because they thought the team was being sold. So no one was going to sign on to be a temporary hold over until new ownership hired their own guy. Arte f***ed that one up too.

 

[GreatBear]

This team with a semi-competent manager and not a complete dipshit would be close to 10 over .500, if not there. Nevin just gives away games in the most mind-boggling of ways, not to mention just how poorly coached they are in a general sense

It would help to have put money into better relief pitching. That is on Moreno. Just another of his failures as an owner.

 

[TheGoodShepard1]

I don't think I could ever root for another team, but I will certainly stop watching this franchise until he either sells the team or kicks the bucket. What a disgrace.

Also, Arte KNOWS he's gonna lose Shohei anyway, but he wants to extract every last dime out of this fanbase before he leaves. f*** you and your lackey Carpino, you clown.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I don't think I could ever root for another team, but I will certainly stop watching this franchise until he either sells the team or kicks the bucket. What a disgrace.

Also, Arte KNOWS he's gonna lose Shohei anyway, but he wants to extract every last dime out of this fanbase before he leaves. f*** you and your lackey Carpino, you clown.

Moreno cannot let baseball people do the decision making.

I'm thinking Moreno will play the victim by saying Ohtani chose to leave Anaheim and we're left with nothing in return, leaving the Angels high and dry. Several years ago, Moreno wanted FA hitters who cost the Angels their first round pick. Moreno wanted HR hitter Pujols and cost the Angles' a 2012. The next summer, instead retaining in-season trade SP Greinke, Moreno wanted HR hitter Hamilton and cost the team a 2013 first round pick. Losing consecutive 1st round picks is harsh on the farm team.

 

[Fighter]

I understand that Shohei wanna win but is there a chance to renew him? Like, literally, cover him in dollars and promise a competitive team? There's no better option than Cali for a japanese player and he choose Anaheim because of that.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Arte Moreno has destroyed my enjoyment of this team, the Trout era has failed because of him and it started with him having his puppet Tony Reagins, they should have been building around Trout slowly and doing things the right way, not signing Josh f***ing Hamilton and all the other dumb win now moves he chased and sacrificed picks for.

If his ego is why he won't trade Ohtani then he's an even bigger fool than I thought, this is actually your chance to build a baseball team buddy

 

[Sean Garrity]

I understand that Shohei wanna win but is there a chance to renew him? Like, literally, cover him in dollars and promise a competitive team? There's no better option than Cali for a japanese player and he choose Anaheim because of that.

There's another team in Cali that he's likely to sign with, and while it irks me, I definitely understand why he wouldn't sign with the Angels. IIRC, he signed here not only because of location, but also because we guaranteed that he could play both ways. Now that he's proved that he can and at an elite level, he's going to have a pick of every team because they all will let him do both AND the DH is now universal. Moreno has to trade him, but wont.

 

[Deuce22]

If the Angels don't trade Ohtani, it shows what many of us have suspected all along. Making money is more important to the owner than building a winning baseball team. There is a history of splashy FA signings of hitters (Hamilton, Pujols, Rendon) and trades (Wells) that have brought people to the park and sold jerseys, but haven't resulted in many wins. Letting Ohtani walk at the end of the year to sellout a few more games and sell more #17 jerseys is baseball malpractice.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Last few years have shown increasing warning signs of owner going senile/mad from firing a play by play TV guy for no reason at all to refusing to trade Ohtani.

I also kind of wonder if Arte walked back on selling the team because the fans hate him and were celebrating he was gonna sell it so he's gonna screw the fans over with letting Ohtani walk while making money at the same time.

The farm system was always better under Disney lol and they did win a championship too. It helped that Disney didn't interfere with running the team.

 

[terranraida]

This 1-9 L10 nose dive has really been a bummer watching us go from a team solidly in the wildcard driver seat to below .500, and 5 games back from even sniffing it.

What a joke of an organization.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

This 1-9 L10 nose dive has really been a bummer watching us go from a team solidly in the wildcard driver seat to below .500, and 5 games back from even sniffing it.

What a joke of an organization.

Thought that was on full display when GM Dipoto resigned in-season. The last time the Angels finished .500 as well as made the playoffs was under Dipoto. Dipoto as GM of the Mariners (2016 season to present) finished over .500 three times and went to the ALDS last year.

Ohtani publicly said he wants to be on a playoff team at the end of last season. All owner Arte needed to do, after reneging on selling the team, was to go over the luxury tax and nab top end pitchers. Ohtani winning the WBC with Japan by striking out Trout to win the championship is the atmosphere he wants to be in.

Losing Ohtani for nothing fits under Moreno's MO. I recall trading a lot to get Greinke in-season to avoid losing a 1st round pick, but Moreno didn't care we spent assets to acquire a starting pitcher or lose a first round pick because he wanted a slugger in Hamilton more at the same price. Our pitching pool in the system was practically non-existent at the time Dipoto took over and he made going after Greinke a move to hold things over until he can build up the system.

 

[Deuce22]

Thought that was on full display when GM Dipoto resigned in-season. The last time the Angels finished .500 as well as made the playoffs was under Dipoto. Dipoto as GM of the Mariners (2016 season to present) finished over .500 three times and went to the ALDS last year.

Ohtani publicly said he wants to be on a playoff team at the end of last season. All owner Arte needed to do, after reneging on selling the team, was to go over the luxury tax and nab top end pitchers. Ohtani winning the WBC with Japan by striking out Trout to win the championship is the atmosphere he wants to be in.

Losing Ohtani for nothing fits under Moreno's MO. I recall trading a lot to get Greinke in-season to avoid losing a 1st round pick, but Moreno didn't care we spent assets to acquire a starting pitcher or lose a first round pick because he wanted a slugger in Hamilton more at the same price. Our pitching pool in the system was practically non-existent at the time Dipoto took over and he made going after Greinke a move to hold things over until he can build up the system.

The problem with DiPoto was that he wasn’t a puppet.

 

[cheesymc]

So is the Ducks or Angels the worst organization? Angels have two rare superstars, spends a lot of money, and can’t get in the playoffs due to their league worst scouting abilities. Ducks have supposedly good amateur scouting (but a bit overrated on these boards) but haven’t developed star players for a long time. Both are borderline laughingstocks of the league now.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

So is the Ducks or Angels the worst organization? Angels have two rare superstars, spends a lot of money, and can’t get in the playoffs due to their league worst scouting abilities. Ducks have supposedly good amateur scouting (but a bit overrated on these boards) but haven’t developed star players for a long time. Both are borderline laughingstocks of the league now.

The Angels have been big time spenders since Moreno took over as owner, but Moreno kept screwing over the org by making expensive, splash signings for hitters and cost first as well as second round draft picks. The Angels needed pitchers, but Moreno isn't keen on it. The previous GM, Eppler, was Moreno's puppet and did not address pitching. Angels have not been through a rebuild. If they trade Ohtani, that will give the Angels a significant boost in talent and depth. Unfortunately, with the same owner in place, you're bound to still get a similar result.

The Ducks started its rebuild at the 2018-19 TDL. In the previous decade, the Ducks were playoff bound eight times. It reset the rebuilt at the 2022 TDL under new GM Verbeek. Since the initial rebuild, the Ducks have been collecting top-10 picks starting from the 2019 draft. The future is bright in Anaheim and probably a few years away from competing for a playoff spot.

It's odd to say the Ducks haven't developed star players. They produced Lindholm, Andersen, Gibson, and, recently, Terry along with Zegras. Terry was a 5th round pick from the 2015 draft. Zegras was the 9th overall in the 2019 draft. McTavish is already a top-6 center in his rookie season, a 3rd OA pick from the 2021 draft.

To the MLB world, the Angels have been in rut with the two best players in baseball. To the NHL world, Anaheim is going to be amazing in the future because they all know we're in a rebuild mode.

• MLB.com's pre-season farm team rankings:
  • #2 Dodgers
  • #28 Angels

Crazy to see a consistent playoff team like the Dodgers have a high farm team ranking, but the Angels, who haven't been to the playoffs in like seven seasons, are still at the bottom.

• The Hockey News: Future Watch edition (does not include that summer's draft picks)
  • 2019: 21st
  • 2020: 14th
  • 2021: 4th
  • 2022: 1st
  • 2023: 2nd

Yeah... guess the Ducks amateur scouting sucks ass. (sarcasm totally implied)

 

[Bender66]

So is the Ducks or Angels the worst organization? Angels have two rare superstars, spends a lot of money, and can’t get in the playoffs due to their league worst scouting abilities. Ducks have supposedly good amateur scouting (but a bit overrated on these boards) but haven’t developed star players for a long time. Both are borderline laughingstocks of the league now.

I would say Angels scouting is actually okay. Not great, but not terrible. Perry's picks have been mostly affected by the complete empty cupboard he was handed, so he tends to go after college guys that can be ready right now (see Neto and Joyce)

The problem is Arte is a cheap ass and won't put any money in player development. As recently as 2021, angels minor leaguer couldn't even afford to eat at McDonalds.

Minor leaguers: Angels striking out with treatment

Some players in the Angels' minor league system are criticizing living conditions and food options within the organization to the point where they're deciding to retire. In response, GM Perry Minasian said the club "will look into it and address it."

www.espn.com

 

[cheesymc]

I would say Angels scouting is actually okay. Not great, but not terrible. Perry's picks have been mostly affected by the complete empty cupboard he was handed, so he tends to go after college guys that can be ready right now (see Neto and Joyce)

The problem is Arte is a cheap ass and won't put any money in player development. As recently as 2021, angels minor leaguer couldn't even afford to eat at McDonalds.

Minor leaguers: Angels striking out with treatment

Some players in the Angels' minor league system are criticizing living conditions and food options within the organization to the point where they're deciding to retire. In response, GM Perry Minasian said the club "will look into it and address it."

www.espn.com

I think I recall seeing this article some time ago... I would think the most critical part of baseball is scouting and developing young talent. It also seems like they never sign any top tier international talent (they got lucky with Eppler getting Ohtani) so they probably don't invest much in their staff too. Its crazy how Art thinks he could just buy a winner, maybe in basketball but not in baseball. I am sure this reputation also affects their draft because players with options would refuse to sign so the Angels would be forced to pass on talent.

Its too bad... the Angels were my first official employer in high school and I watched guys like Percival and Salmon help get their only championship and its gone down ever since...

 

[ADHB]

The team will never be good as long as Arte is the owner. Call it a curse, call it mismanagement, call it whatever you want. As soon as he sells, the team will magically be decent again, guaranteed. Looked like it would happen this past off season, but he was too selfish to sell while Ohtani was still on the team. Hopefully yet another disaster season will convince him to take his $3 billion and go away for good.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I would say Angels scouting is actually okay. Not great, but not terrible. Perry's picks have been mostly affected by the complete empty cupboard he was handed, so he tends to go after college guys that can be ready right now (see Neto and Joyce)

The problem is Arte is a cheap ass and won't put any money in player development. As recently as 2021, angels minor leaguer couldn't even afford to eat at McDonalds.

Minor leaguers: Angels striking out with treatment

Some players in the Angels' minor league system are criticizing living conditions and food options within the organization to the point where they're deciding to retire. In response, GM Perry Minasian said the club "will look into it and address it."

www.espn.com

Despite spending a lot of money, Arte is cheap. He raked in cash from Fox Sports West because he signed Pujols. Pujols: 10 yr contract for $254 mil. FSW: 20 yr contract for $3 billion. Arte can afford to upgrade the whole farm system facilities and go over the luxury tax for decades!

As for Perry, I like what he's trying to do so far. He's still not as creative as Dipoto. Dipoto traded away favorites such as Howie Kendrick to acquire young starting pitching. Dipoto acquired a lot of young pitchers that Eppler started to trade them for positional players. Eppler traded Newcombe for SS Simba, iirc. Unfortunately, Eppler drafted a pitcher in the first round in his fifth year.

Dipoto's first round picks

2012: no 1st round pick due to signing FA 1B Pujols (Moreno signing)​

2013: no 1st round pick due to signing FA OF Hamilton (Moreno signing)​

2014: SP lefty Newcombe​

2015: C Ward​

Eppler's first round picks

2016: C Thaiss​

2017: OF Adell​

2018: OF Adams​

2019: SS Wilson (traded to ensure a cap dump)​

2020: SP lefty Detmers​

Eppler passed on several pitching prosects in 2019 at pick 15. Dipoto drafted SP Kirby at 20th overall. Kirby is an all-star.

Perry's first round picks

2021: SP righty Bachman (we drafted all pitchers... 20 of them iirc)​

2022: SS Neto (already at the MLB's!)​

2022: 1B Schanuel​

Perry did trade for C O'Hoppe and he looked great until he got injured.

 

[StreetHawk]

There's another team in Cali that he's likely to sign with, and while it irks me, I definitely understand why he wouldn't sign with the Angels. IIRC, he signed here not only because of location, but also because we guaranteed that he could play both ways. Now that he's proved that he can and at an elite level, he's going to have a pick of every team because they all will let him do both AND the DH is now universal. Moreno has to trade him, but wont.

Without that change, Ohtani couldn't consider the Dodgers, Giants, etc. Just cranks up his value with those big markets in the mix as well for his services.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

There's another team in Cali that he's likely to sign with, and while it irks me, I definitely understand why he wouldn't sign with the Angels. IIRC, he signed here not only because of location, but also because we guaranteed that he could play both ways. Now that he's proved that he can and at an elite level, he's going to have a pick of every team because they all will let him do both AND the DH is now universal. Moreno has to trade him, but wont.

From my recollection, Ohtani had three conditions
1. play on the West Coast
2. play where there haven't been a Japanese player of lore (Seattle and Dodgers are out!)
3. play a two-way game (every team would accommodate this, though)

That left SF, Oakland, SD, and LAA. The Angels had the inside man for Ohtani as GM Eppler was the Yankees scout who saw Ohtani live in high school.

With winning in his mind and the condition of staying on the west coast, the Dodgers and Giants are front runners. Seattle and San Diego could be in the mix.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Rendon signed a 7-year contract for $245 mil, or $35 mil AAV, in 2020. Three more seasons to go.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I said a long time ago that the games played in his career was never good and not gonna get better with age. He's only played 150+ games twice in his career (153 in 2014 and 156 in 2016) and that was when he was a lot younger. He also only played 80 games in 2015.

Age 27 to 29 his games played were 147, 136 and 146. They had to have known they were getting a guy who's a lock to miss at least 15 to 20 games a year but with age that he'll likely miss more.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I said a long time ago that the games played in his career was never good and not gonna get better with age. He's only played 150+ games twice in his career (153 in 2014 and 156 in 2016) and that was when he was a lot younger. He also only played 80 games in 2015.

Age 27 to 29 his games played were 147, 136 and 146. They had to have known they were getting a guy who's a lock to miss at least 15 to 20 games a year but with age that he'll likely miss more.

Owner Moreno doesn't care about age. He only cares if it's a big named slugger and a bonus if he has a Spanish-like name. See Pujols.

Bad owner. Bad, bad owner.