Prospect Info: Logan Mailloux Part 3 The Only Hockey Talk Thread

[abo9]

Yes, players go through ups and downs. But it’s a stark difference. The usage of the player was night and day. For whatever reason DD seemed to have no confidence in CC. And even if that’s not the case he was still badly misused for whatever the reason.

I don’t think anyone thought LL was going to be a star player. But almost everyone thought he’d be an NHLer. He was very highly regarded. And it’s well documented what happened to him. His treatment was inexcusable and reveals a very broken culture at the minor league level.

And even if a prospect could survive that gong show, he then had to come to the NHL and go through Therrien. God awful. Montreal became a place where prospects go to die.

Yes.

?

One group of prospects consistently drowned. If the next group does much better. I’d say it definitely reveals a lot about the holes in the team’s development systems during MB’s tenure.

Timmins’ picks are pretty good… right up until MB shows up. Then suddenly we get little out of the ensuing drafts. It drops off a cliff. If we see a rebound with the next regime (particularly if we see it in Timmins’ later picks) then it’s a serious indictment on how we ran things.

I’m not absolving Timmins of everything. But he was unfairly maligned by many. Before MB a lot of his picks panned out. After? We got zero.

And the thing is, as fans we really only notice the more well known prospects. We only notice how badly Chuck was used because we’re paying attention to him. Ditto with LL. It was probably even worse for mid round guys trying to make it. The usage on our best prospects was inexplicable - imagine what it’s be like as a mid range prospect. Even if you survive the frying pan of the minors you had to go through the fire of Therrien. It was a recipe for disaster.

Look at Beaulieu. He gets blasted for a low IQ. And it’s deserved because he made some boneheaded plays. But he had an awesome skill set. He needed a coach. So what do we do? Rush him to the NHL. He plays a shift, makes a mistake and gets benched. Repeat for infinity….

Once again, maybe he was NEVER going to be a solid NHL. But we made sure that he wouldn’t. We took his biggest weakness and made it worse by destroying his confidence.

This was a recurring theme. We just beat the shit out of our prospects and it created a toxic culture.

If you start googling the names of prospects that went through the org during MB's tenure, youll find quite a few that corroborate similar horror stories. Guys like Scherbak, Simon Bourque, McNiven, and I think I forget a few.


The commonality? Losing passion for the game, communication issues, feeling disrespected, changing their game, yiddy yadda.

Ive been following this team since 2006, and the biggest thing thats been failing repeatedly has been the handling and development of prospects.

Idk why... after all we went through 3 gms during that time and mamy coaches - even a new ownership

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

He had one goal all season. There was no indication of it changing. He was saved by Ducharme’s firing. And the very moment MSL took over he paced for close to 50 goals. It doesn’t get more stark than that.

Very similar to the Galchenyuk situation. When he was used as our number one, the whole team’s offense improved. And his usage in 2015-16 was inexplicable. Leblanc was a can’t miss prospect - until we crushed him.

It wasn’t just Hab fans thinking we had good prospects btw. After many of those drafts I’d read articles on how Montreal did really really well at the draft table and nothing would ever come from it.

So yeah, let’s see how those late Timmins’ picks do with a new regime developing them. I predicted that we’ll see an improvement and we already have. Hopefully some of these late TT picks like Mailloux pan out. Caufield already has.

He wasn't on the road to busting.

He was in a slump and not producing and the sudden turnaround is proof of that. He was being misused but the elite skill was obviously still there, players with ability, confidence and work ethic like Cole do not bust, they just have to learn to deal with adversity that they have never encountered before. There is no such thing as ruining top talents. If a player is so fragile that they can not come back from adversity then they were never going to make it. That is the number one reason for the interview process. Strength of character/resolve/resiliency are every bit traits that are different for each player and are part of their overall skillset as much as skating, shooting and IQ are. These traits have a huge impact on how teams rank prospects prior to the draft because they greatly affect the prospects likelihood of succeeding.

 

[CHwest]

Yes, players go through ups and downs. But it’s a stark difference. The usage of the player was night and day. For whatever reason DD seemed to have no confidence in CC. And even if that’s not the case he was still badly misused for whatever the reason.

I don’t think anyone thought LL was going to be a star player. But almost everyone thought he’d be an NHLer. He was very highly regarded. And it’s well documented what happened to him. His treatment was inexcusable and reveals a very broken culture at the minor league level.

And even if a prospect could survive that gong show, he then had to come to the NHL and go through Therrien. God awful. Montreal became a place where prospects go to die.

Yes.

?

One group of prospects consistently drowned. If the next group does much better. I’d say it definitely reveals a lot about the holes in the team’s development systems during MB’s tenure.

Timmins’ picks are pretty good… right up until MB shows up. Then suddenly we get little out of the ensuing drafts. It drops off a cliff. If we see a rebound with the next regime (particularly if we see it in Timmins’ later picks) then it’s a serious indictment on how we ran things.

I’m not absolving Timmins of everything. But he was unfairly maligned by many. Before MB a lot of his picks panned out. After? We got zero.

And the thing is, as fans we really only notice the more well known prospects. We only notice how badly Chuck was used because we’re paying attention to him. Ditto with LL. It was probably even worse for mid round guys trying to make it. The usage on our best prospects was inexplicable - imagine what it’s be like as a mid range prospect. Even if you survive the frying pan of the minors you had to go through the fire of Therrien. It was a recipe for disaster.

Look at Beaulieu. He gets blasted for a low IQ. And it’s deserved because he made some boneheaded plays. But he had an awesome skill set. He needed a coach. So what do we do? Rush him to the NHL. He plays a shift, makes a mistake and gets benched. Repeat for infinity….

Once again, maybe he was NEVER going to be a solid NHL. But we made sure that he wouldn’t. We took his biggest weakness and made it worse by destroying his confidence.

This was a recurring theme. We just beat the shit out of our prospects and it created a toxic culture.

I think bargain bins problem was vanity. He wanted that player that was a bit of an unorthodox player but would pan out for him. He wanted people to think, well that Marc he went a little of the board and found himself a real gem. He did it in drafting and he did it in trades.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Guhle - Mailloux
Hutson - Barron
Harris - Xhejak

 

[salbutera]

If you start googling the names of prospects that went through the org during MB's tenure, youll find quite a few that corroborate similar horror stories. Guys like Scherbak, Simon Bourque, McNiven, and I think I forget a few.


The commonality? Losing passion for the game, communication issues, feeling disrespected, changing their game, yiddy yadda.

Ive been following this team since 2006, and the biggest thing thats been failing repeatedly has been the handling and development of prospects.

Idk why... after all we went through 3 gms during that time and mamy coaches - even a new ownership

I’ve been following the team since the late 70s, and even w the greatest development guru of all time with Habs (Claude Ruel) - was unable to turn chicken shit into legendary 1st rounders they were hyped to be - like Norm Dupont, Dan Geoffrion, Dave Hunter, Wickenheiser, Alain Héroux, Alfie Turcotte, José Charbonneau, Mark Pederson, Éric Charron, Lindsay Vallis, Brent Bilodeau …

See a trend? They were shit picks, development is a bullshit red herring.. if a player isn’t 100% dedicated on & off the ice with drive & hunger, they simply ain’t cuttin it!

Claude Ruel GOAT in NHL player development…

Furthermore, when you possess the IQ of a pig fart like AKos, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu u stand no chance, because you lack the ability to learn & execute learnings

Which great NHL development guru turned MSL, Bergeron, Perry, Pavelski etc into HOFers?

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I’ve been following the team since the late 70s, and even w the greatest development guru of all time with Habs (Claude Ruel) - was unable to turn chicken shit into legendary 1st rounders they were hyped to be - like Norm Dupont, Dan Geoffrion, Dave Hunter, Wickenheiser, Alain Héroux, Alfie Turcotte, José Charbonneau, Mark Pederson, Éric Charron, Lindsay Vallis, Brent Bilodeau …

See a trend? They were shit picks, development is a bullshit red herring.. if a player isn’t 100% dedicated on & off the ice with drive & hunger, they simply ain’t cuttin it!

Furthermore, when you possess the IQ of a pig fart like AKos, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu u stand no chance, because you lack the ability to learn & execute learnings

Claude Ruel GOAT in NHL player development…

I have been a fan of this Team since the mid-50s.
I have watched the team’s drafting pattern for the past 50 years and have been appalled by the number of players we have drafted that had acknowledged deficiencies in skating. To your list of mis-drafts you can add the following failed first round picks: McCarron, Tinordi, Chouinard, Vallis, Stevenson, Wilke, Brown and Ryan.

Is it any wonder we haven’t won a Stanley Cup in 30 years?

 

[Gainesvillain]

Guhle - Mailloux
Hutson - Barron
Harris - Xhejak

View attachment 714916

Yup, No Need for Reinbacher.

 

[salbutera]

I have been a fan of this Team since the mid-50s.
I have watched the team’s drafting pattern for the past 50 years and have been appalled by the number of players we have drafted that had acknowledged deficiencies in skating. To your list of mis-drafts you can add the following failed first round picks: McCarron, Tinordi, Chouinard, Vallis, Stevenson, Wilke, Brown and Ryan.

Is it any wonder we haven’t won a Stanley Cup in 30 years?

Habs 1st round picks have been absolute atrocities post Gainey pick in 1973…. again which the GOAT development guru could not overcome the lack of ability & hunger. That spans 8-GMs including a legendary HOF GM (Pollock)

Just think Koivu would’ve never been a Hab, except for Savard caving to his former teammate and then Euro scout in JC Tremblay, not because he thought Koivu was a special player but only because he didn’t want JC who was about to get physical & literally kick the living shit out of his Dir of Amateur Scouting (Andre Boudrias) and AGM (Carol Vadnais)…. food for thought before pinning poor prospect showing on “lack of player development”

 

[DinosaurBones]

If you start googling the names of prospects that went through the org during MB's tenure, youll find quite a few that corroborate similar horror stories. Guys like Scherbak, Simon Bourque, McNiven, and I think I forget a few.


The commonality? Losing passion for the game, communication issues, feeling disrespected, changing their game, yiddy yadda.

Ive been following this team since 2006, and the biggest thing thats been failing repeatedly has been the handling and development of prospects.

Idk why... after all we went through 3 gms during that time and mamy coaches - even a new ownership

Such a weird list of names to go to... Bourque was a 6th and McNiven was after his draft age. Collberg, Bozon, Thrower, Lernout, Bitten. Just seem like the names you should have said lol. Not hating, just weird lolol

 

[ZUKI]

Not for nothing but Beaulieu for all his flaws was “developed” terribly as well. Rushed to the NHL, then if you make a mistake? Boom! Here’s the bench. Therrien had one tool: the hammer. None of our young players got any real instruction on anything.

Beau was a project. Great physical tools and he needed a good coach to guide him along. We gave him the worst coach in the league.

Maybe Beau was never going to amount to much anyway. But with Therrien we made sure of it. That’s the handicap of bad coaching. Your wildcards are going to pan out far less often.

Sorry but i don't buy this classic #blame-the-coach narrative . It' s such a cliché to say poor player X he was sooo badly used, rushed, developped .

Beaulieu had an ego bigger than the Centre Bell . He arrived thinking he was the next best player of the world .

You know, there 's a lot of players that were "star" during their junior or collegian career . When they arrive in the big league, must of them realize that they aren't there yet . But there is also those who think they just need few weeks to ajuste their game. They simply don't " need " others persons to help them.

Beaulieu was one of them ( as is KK ) he wasn't doing what he was asked to do , to develop, and he was also a night lifer, with a bad reputation. It has nothin to do with Therrien who by the way, wasn't the dmen coach.

You can add Galchenyuk to this list, but in his cas, it was a lot linked to his father that was " coaching " him. Night life was also a big factor, because he still got a 30 goals season. How can we accuse the coaches for what he turned to be ?

 

[salbutera]

Sorry but i don't buy this classic #blame-the-coach narrative . It' s such a cliché to say poor player X he was sooo badly used, rushed, developped .

Beaulieu had an ego bigger than the Centre Bell . He arrived thinking he was the next best player of the world .

You know, there 's a lot of players that were "star" during their junior or collegian career . When they arrive in the big league, must of them realize that they aren't there yet . But there is also those who think they just need few weeks to ajuste their game. They simply don't " need " others persons to help them.

Beaulieu was one of them ( as is KK ) he wasn't doing what he was asked to do , to develop, and he was also a night lifer, with a bad reputation. It has nothin to do with Therrien who by the way, wasn't the dmen coach.

You can add Galchenyuk to this list, but in his cas, it was a lot linked to his father that was " coaching " him. Night life was also a big factor, because he still got a 30 goals season. How can we accuse the coaches for what he turned to be ?

Easy… when you’re inherent bias & hate is against coach & GM, you find reasons to blame them…

 

[JT3]

Yup, No Need for Reinbacher.

I love our D prospects as much as the next guy but none of them have proven literally anything. For all we know half of them don't play any more than a couple hundred games.

Remember 8 years ago or so when the Flyers were 'stacked' at D with Provorov, Ghost, Morin, Hagg, Sanheim? How did they work out?

 

[abo9]

I’ve been following the team since the late 70s, and even w the greatest development guru of all time with Habs (Claude Ruel) - was unable to turn chicken shit into legendary 1st rounders they were hyped to be - like Norm Dupont, Dan Geoffrion, Dave Hunter, Wickenheiser, Alain Héroux, Alfie Turcotte, José Charbonneau, Mark Pederson, Éric Charron, Lindsay Vallis, Brent Bilodeau …

See a trend? They were shit picks, development is a bullshit red herring.. if a player isn’t 100% dedicated on & off the ice with drive & hunger, they simply ain’t cuttin it!

Claude Ruel GOAT in NHL player development…

Furthermore, when you possess the IQ of a pig fart like AKos, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu u stand no chance, because you lack the ability to learn & execute learnings

Which great NHL development guru turned MSL, Bergeron, Perry, Pavelski etc into HOFers?

Sure, a formal development team won't make every player successful. Thats just wishful thinking.

But they can give them the tools and guidance to succeed.

And the tean didn't under MB. Hopefully they do now.

One thing to ponder upon is how Sergachev is blossoming as a top D in Tampa, and how Kotkaniemi is seemingly "on track" with the Hurricanes.

And how, players like Harris, Romanov, RHP, Caufield, Guhle are able to play in the NHL already. With some like Caufield, Guhle and Romanov being able to take bigger roles.

For some reason, Timmins picks are starting to look decent again after 10 years? Thats odd

Such a weird list of names to go to... Bourque was a 6th and McNiven was after his draft age. Collberg, Bozon, Thrower, Lernout, Bitten. Just seem like the names you should have said lol. Not hating, just weird lolol

Wdym "was after his draft age" about McNiven? He's a prime example of a guy who had his development butchered by the organization.

Bourque is a weird one bit he just sticks in me head bc he's the first one I recall reading about and I thought nothing of it at the time. I qctually thought it was just him not made out for the NHL - being a 6th rounder and all.

But then more and more players goimg through the Habs system started reporting similar stories and outcomes, from different draft positions, draft years, playstyle etc.

The few guys that succeeded didnt really play AHL under MB's regimen - perhaps except Gallagher.

 

[salbutera]

Sure, a formal development team won't make every player successful. Thats just wishful thinking.

But they can give them the tools and guidance to succeed.

And the tean didn't under MB. Hopefully they do now.

One thing to ponder upon is how Sergachev is blossoming as a top D in Tampa, and how Kotkaniemi is seemingly "on track" with the Hurricanes.

And how, players like Harris, Romanov, RHP, Caufield, Guhle are able to play in the NHL already. With some like Caufield, Guhle and Romanov being able to take bigger roles.

For some reason, Timmins picks are starting to look decent again after 10 years? Thats odd

What’s so odd? Price was fine, so were McDonagh, Pacioretty and Subban, it’s all about the quality of the player drafted & his hunger to become an NHLer at all costs & sacrifices…

 

[salbutera]

Looks like a fait accompli..

 

[abo9]

What’s so odd? Price was fine, so were McDonagh, Pacioretty and Subban, it’s all about the quality of the player drafted & his hunger to become an NHLer at all costs & sacrifices…

We can go back and forth all night with this... these players were all drafted by Timmins, so was Gallagher 2 years after Patch and Subban.

Suddenly, he became unable to find players with "drive"?

Timmins was far from perfect - but I thi m theres enough clues to not discount the role of the team in the less elite prospect's development completely

 

[salbutera]

We can go back and forth all night with this... these players were all drafted by Timmins, so was Gallagher 2 years after Patch and Subban.

Suddenly, he became unable to find players with "drive"?

Timmins was far from perfect - but I thi m theres enough clues to not discount the role of the team in the less elite prospect's development completely

No the point is Timmins was an avg scout at best & very poor at identifying offensive talent - his one forte was Dman.

The failures of the AKos, Galchenyuk etc was not development it was simply they were poor picks at their draft positions due to improper NHL level offensive evaluation

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Looks like a fait accompli..

The fact that he gets one tells me he's going to be fine.

 

[ZUKI]

Easy… when you’re inherent bias & hate is against coach & GM, you find reasons to blame them…

agree , and it is crazily redundant around here.

Right now, we have a lot of draftees that are doing very well in their respective league. A LOT .
Must of them were selected by Timmins & Bergevin . But even if they are leading in their group of age, once they"ll turn pro , the same guys will come to tell us how good the new management and MSL are to develop players , and for those who won't make it, it will be because of " Timmins bad selections"

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He wasn't on the road to busting.

He absolutely was.

This was not a slump. It was horrible -and inexplicable- use of a player. It was Galchenyuk all over again.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Guhle - Mailloux
Hutson - Barron
Harris - Xhejak

View attachment 714916

It’s too bad Hutson and Ghule are both LD.

agree , and it is crazily redundant around here.

Right now, we have a lot of draftees that are doing very well in their respective league. A LOT .
Must of them were selected by Timmins & Bergevin . But even if they are leading in their group of age, once they"ll turn pro , the same guys will come to tell us how good the new management and MSL are to develop players , and for those who won't make it, it will be because of " Timmins bad selections"

I don’t blame Timmins. He had a good track record before MB showed up. And I suspect those later picks will pan out.

Drafting wasn’t perfect by any stretch but we got as little out of the prospects that we selected as was possible.

I think a Guhle - Mailloux pairing fits perfectly.
Both such smooth skaters, and big/not afraid to be big is the important part.
The hockey sense in both ends of the ice from KG leads to offense and takes care of any blunders on the D end from Mailloux, but Mailloux could put up 20G a year in his prime on the back end which is wild.
Follow that with Hutson and any of the rest of our stud D coming up/that will be drafted or traded for.
FUN

I suppose you’re right. It will likely be a good pairing. And it will give Hutson a chance to develop further down. I’m just excited by Hitson’s potential. It’s going to be a good group.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

He absolutely was.

This was not a slump. It was horrible -and inexplicable- use of a player. It was Galchenyuk all over again.

That statement just isn't true and it reaches the apex of hyperbole. Galchenyuk fell apart because he was a terrible skater with low IQ and the speed of the game became too fast for him as it incrementally increased. His hands/shot just weren't enough to compensate, which is why he has sucked ever since. It is not possible to ruin a player, that is a fan narrative that is not accepted by NHL players/coaches etc. Permanently losing confidence is only possible in players who were going to fail anyways.

There is not a single teammate/coach/trainer/scout/GM that thought for one nano second that Cole was busting, it is almost comical to even suggest it.

 

[NewDef]

I think a Guhle - Mailloux pairing fits perfectly.
Both such smooth skaters, and big/not afraid to be big is the important part.
The hockey sense in both ends of the ice from KG leads to offense and takes care of any blunders on the D end from Mailloux, but Mailloux could put up 20G a year in his prime on the back end which is wild.
Follow that with Hutson and any of the rest of our stud D coming up/that will be drafted or traded for.
FUN

Yeah, Mailloux-Ghule, if both pans out, will be the envy of many teams for years. I'm eager for camp!

I've seen propositions of Hutson-Baron on the 2nd but I feel we haven't seen the ceiling of Xhekaj and he might be a better partner for Hutson as both their game is dynamic and Xhekaj would make it clear Hutson is not to be abused.

I would rather play an Engstrom with Barron on a more cerebral second line if Engstrom pans out.

Man it's been a loong time since the habs had such nice prospects on D.... and what is not played can be traded to help other positions. (In due due time).

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

The fact that he gets one tells me he's going to be fine.

By all accounts, he's done everything they asked him to do and kept himself on the straight and narrow. I can't see any reason not to give him the ok to turn pro. Should be a formality.

 

[the]

I'm surprised Mr.Bettman is taking time to meet him. Hopefully he gives him the ok.