Confirmed with Link: Lindholm + Hanifin to CAL for Hamilton, Fox and Ferland

[Blueline Bomber]

Man reading through the last few pages, it definitely seems like some are trying to convince themselves and others to still be pissed at this franchise. You'll have to excuse me, but **** that I'm tired of being perpetually pessimistic about the future and direction of this team. I'm ready to turn the page and look forward to the future of this team. I'm ready to look for any excuse to make this team fun again.

Sorry, but this team has prevented me from getting my hopes up about anything it does. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me for the 10 thousandth time and I’m dead inside.

I’ll be happy go lucky when they start producing results. Until then, they’re going to screw it up and you won’t convince me otherwise.

 

[The Jerk Store]

I think that our expectations for Lindholm were overblown to a degree. When he was drafted, he was compared favorably to Backstrom and Giroux. Couple that with the sentiment that JR rushed him into the NHL while his draft peers found relatively quick success, we hoped that he would eventually evolve into a player that he may never be. I would have liked to see how he would have done under Brind A’mour to determine if he was a casualty of Peters’s system. He always seemed like he was on the verge of having a breakout season, yet never did. No doubt he will next season playing with Monahan and Johnny Hockey.

I would be surprised if Ferland puts up as many points here as he did in Calgary, but I don’t see that as his main contribution. It has been a long time since we have had an agitator, let alone one who is NHL-sized and can score every now and again. I think his value to the team in that regard fits better than Lindholm and his playmaking skill set.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Sorry, but this team has prevented me from getting my hopes up about anything it does. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me for the 10 thousandth time and I’m dead inside.

I’ll be happy go lucky when they start producing results. Until then, they’re going to screw it up and you won’t convince me otherwise.

fool me twice you cant get fooled again

 

[Svechhammer]

Flames-Hurricanes trade grades: Carolina's new regime makes big splash, lands Dougie Hamilton

Hurricanes grade: A+
Flames grade: C-

 

[bleedgreen]

We could lose Ferland to ufa next summer and not get Fox, that would make this less of a great trade.

Hamilton’s character is taking a beating in Calgary right now, it seems they needed him gone. Seems a lot deeper than he likes museums.

 

[The Jerk Store]

We could lose Ferland to ufa next summer and not get Fox, that would make this less of a great trade.

Hamilton’s character is taking a beating in Calgary right now, it seems they needed him gone. Seems a lot deeper than he likes museums.

I’ve heard anything from him being a know-it-all to a JMFJ-type of parental situation, to him just being introverted. I guess we will know soon enough. Hopefully the chatter about his character is just sour grapes.

 

[Canes]

We could lose Ferland to ufa next summer and not get Fox, that would make this less of a great trade.

Hamilton’s character is taking a beating in Calgary right now, it seems they needed him gone. Seems a lot deeper than he likes museums.

Tons of players characters take a beating whenever they get traded from a Canadian or Original 6 franchise.

Seguin's character still takes one from Boston to this day.

I don't really put any stock into it without specific stories.

And the museum one is the biggest one I've heard so far.

 

[NotOpie]

If we want to sign Fox, we probably need to trade several. On the right side we have Pesce, Hamilton, TvR, Faulk, McKeown, Martin and Fox if he signs. Martin is not signed either. We might want to sign TvR to a short bridge deal so we can move him easily next year.

While all the talk is about moving Faulk (and that's probably the most likely scenario), there is some value in those other guys. There are so many options as to how this could play out. I'm guessing the assumption is one or more of those guys are injury insurance. If the Fox plan is another year in college and a year in the AHL, then that aligns perfectly with whatever, "next step" will fall into place with Hamilton (expansion or ability to negotiate next contract). I agree that we likely bridge TVR and sign a dependable 2nd line LHD, keeping the Fleury/TVR pairing a thing.

Waddell and TD want Francis off the books and their personal stamps on this team. They wanted change. Own it and say that’s what yesterday was about, because from here that is a very clear picture for me.

Perhaps, but I don't see it that way entirely....There was a ton of front office discussion about how the culture had to change and it was important to be "100% all in" with the team. Whether it was because of the initial contract negotiations, I think that played into this trade a bit, not a lot, but a bit.

From the perspective of Lindholm, I think a bigger part of the contract negotiations came down to pure analytics/statistics. They need a dependable 50-60 points out of the "positional slot" they have for him. So when he asks for "more than $5 million" (sure it's a rumor but not unbelievable), do they think he's good for that production. They look at this with the very real understanding that they will need 55-65 points from the "Jeff Skinner positional slot". The team probably feels that they can get significant points from Svechnikov (rightly or wrongly optimistic). And those points represent a big portion of the offense this team needs. So Lindholm then becomes a matter of belief....is he the guy who can live up to his potential this year? That feels like the calculus they faced and decided to explore other options.

Interestingly enough, I don't think they view Ferland as the guy who replaces (or improves upon) Lindy's offensive output. In my opinion, they look at him as replacing Phil Di Giuseppe's abysmal numbers.

He’s got some elements to his game that remind me a slight bit of prime Ruutu. And he has quite the shot.

If memory serves, Ruutu was often referenced as having the best wrist shot on the team.

 

[bleedgreen]

I’ve heard he didn’t like Boston and his teammates didn’t like him there, and at the time Calgary’s gm defended the hell out of him and was pissed at the rumors.

That same guy is saying they needed a locker room change and making it clear it was off the ice issues that made this decision easy. He pouted about his brother, he doesn’t care that they lose, I guess he went off on his team mates when they weren’t playing great.

TD has said he doesn’t care if his players are jerks as long as they play well. I don’t feel necessarily the same. If he was just a loner I don’t know that I’d blink twice but I looked up the old articles about Boston and they clearly don’t like the kid. To me the damning testimony is his gm who made the trade. He completely flip flopped on how he felt about the guy.

 

[Novacane]

I won’t pretend to know much about the situation but maybe the trade will wake him up, and the group will be better suited for his personality. Waddell/every GM always says you have to do your homework on players and I’m sure whatever concerns were looked into. Of course we may face the same problem in a few years, but overlooking something like that doesn’t strike me as something that would happen after preaching a culture change all offseason

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t disagree, but he is in interesting choice given the demand for that culture change of apathy about losing. He’s being run out of town on a rail for embodying that very trait.

 

[NotOpie]

We could lose Ferland to ufa next summer and not get Fox, that would make this less of a great trade.

Hamilton’s character is taking a beating in Calgary right now, it seems they needed him gone. Seems a lot deeper than he likes museums.

To me the damning testimony is his gm who made the trade. He completely flip flopped on how he felt about the guy.

Then again, to a certain extent fans always shit on the guy that gets traded....almost universally....and wouldn't Calgary's GM almost have to say those sort of things to protect his reputation....after all he was the guy that made the original trade.

I'm not being a pollyanna about this and do put some weight in all of the chatter....where there's smoke and all....but I also am a firm believer that the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

 

[Svechhammer]

Here we go... Now that he's out of Raleigh and into a real market, Lindholm will be a 60-65 point player as early as next year

 

[Chrispy]

I don’t disagree, but he is in interesting choice given the demand for that culture change of apathy about losing. He’s being run out of town on a rail for embodying that very trait.

So Calgary tries to solve apathy about losing by acquiring two players who have never been in the playoffs from a team in the league's longest playoff drought...

 

[dogbazinho]

I think you're seeing a fair bit of spin on both sides to justify the trade. Since Hamilton is the best player in the deal (right now), and Calgary is under more scrutiny than us, the need to justify it is even greater.

 

[The Faulker 27]

If Hamilton does have personality issues, hopefully he realizes that he won't be in the league much longer if he brings that same BS here. Maybe he's crazy. That's always a wildcard, but who knows. I'm hoping for the best, because he adds some actual talent to our blueline, not just on paper.

 

[emptyNedder]

I think you're seeing a fair bit of spin on both sides to justify the trade.

Agreed. One part that nobody mentions is that Fox seems to be following the Will Butcher path. Who could blame him--Butcher got to miss the playing in the AHL thing and went straight from college to the NHL. If Fox never joins the organization, the trade will strongly favor Calgary if Hanifin becomes a 45-point player or Lindholm becomes a 60-point player. I would say the odds on one out of two is more than 50%.

However, if Fox likes the Canes, then Carolina wins easily. So the key is the one player not in the NHL.

 

[Drivebytrucker]

Does Ferland compare in any way to Erik Cole?

 

[geehaad]

I find it interesting that the supposed problem with CAL signing Fox is the logjam at RHD. He gets traded along with a RHD to CAR, who now stands a good chance of signing him? Naw. There’s now a logjam in CAR.

Big hole to fill at LHD, which shouldn’t be terribly difficult to fill if Hamilton slots on the 2nd pair. If the intent is to put Slavin with Hamilton, then they need a good outlet passer at #2LHD to work with Pesce, and that, of course, raises the degree of difficulty.

Faulk is gone. Can they use him to address the imminent danger in goal, or is there really nothing to be traded for?

I thought Ferland with Aho/TT was dumb when I first heard it, but there is some sense in it. First, if one hopes to retain the scoring that put him close to on-par with Lindholm, then putting him on the 3rd line isn’t smart. Second, his hitting would take attention away from those two, possibly even protecting them somewhat (like Burrows with the Sedins, maybe?). Third, sending Ferland in to hound the puck would allow Aho and TT to hang back and pounce on turnovers.

Notable, however, is how equally well this works if Rod tries to balance experience by putting Svechnikov with Aho and Necas with TT. At that point, Ferland can play with Necas and do the same for that line as he could for an Aho/TT line.

I don’t have a good feeling about Hamilton. I know Pitkanen had a bad rep prior to arriving, but this feels different. Of course, nothing will be a problem at the outset, so this is something us pessimists will have a keen eye on.

 

[The Stranger]

Here we go... Now that he's out of Raleigh and into a real market, Lindholm will be a 60-65 point player as early as next year

If Lindy back-fills Ferland's spot on a line with Gaudreau and Monahan, I could see him hitting 60.

 

[Bounces R Way]

So Calgary tries to solve apathy about losing by acquiring two players who have never been in the playoffs from a team in the league's longest playoff drought...

Sometimes the Flames like to go backwards before they go backwards . Part of the "process". Never been comfortable being anything other than a maybe.

Really liked Hamilton in his time here, wouldn't read too much into the "locker room" rubbish. Lots of fans, the local sports guys, and even apparently our GM aren't done blaming after what was a complete catastrophe of a season. Especially the last third. Even after they axed the coach I don't think the bloodlust was sated. You're getting a top pairing horse, with still more potential to get better. His defensive game also gets crapped on unfairly. Very good gap control and is big enough to basically be always in front of his guy. Is prone to the odd mental lapse, poor penalty, and when he has a bad game he has a really bad game. Playing with Giordano certainly helped mask his flaws but his offence from the backend is so so valuable. If anybody tries to tell you we missed the playoffs because of Hamilton's play or some perceived rift please laugh in their face for me.

Ferland is a fascinating player, great tools when he uses them, can disappear if he doesn't get involved early in games. He's got great size, shot, speed, and hits like a pile of bricks. Doesn't fight super often but usually gets the better of it when he does. Also has some hands that would surprise you for a big guy. Would say both these players have quite valuable unique skillsets, but can be frustrating in their own ways.

Fox was my favorite D prospect in the organization. Ceiling is very high, lots of people see Ryan Ellis or Dan Boyle but in my viewings of him he has the ability to control a game more like Brian Leetch or Scott Niedermayer, although his skating and defensive acumen could stand to improve before he turns pro.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Big hole to fill at LHD, which shouldn’t be terribly difficult to fill if Hamilton slots on the 2nd pair. If the intent is to put Slavin with Hamilton, then they need a good outlet passer at #2LHD to work with Pesce, and that, of course, raises the degree of difficulty.

It should be the former as opposed to the latter. Investing more of the budget and perhaps more trade assets into the defense seems very inefficient to me. The expectation should be that Hamilton is good enough to make it work with a young Fleury on a 2nd pairing against softer matchups and that Fleury is able to play those minutes D+5. It would be a disappointment otherwise.

 

[The Faulker 27]

There was a post on Reddit about Dougie following the trade, with several "first hand" accounts of him being wierd, or a jerk, etc. Part of me thinks some of it's true, but then I think maybe these people are full of shit, in markets that bandwagon hate. No offense to CGY fans that aren't that way. There is certainly something off about it all, and I'm not convinced it's Dougie, but I certainly recognize that there is smoke. Hopefully, our group did plenty of due diligence before making this trade.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

yeah I've thought about it, there's nothing wrong (save the offhand man and wasting faulk on the 2nd pp unit) with slavin-pesce, fleury/tvr/faulk- hamilton, fleury/tvr - faulk/tvr. you shouldn't have to assiduously micronanage that group like bill peters 17-18.

trade faulk, yeah, you need a top 4 lhd for hamilton, cause i don't want to find out if fleury and mckeown can handle 3rd pair comp and if tvr can handle top 4 comp offhand at the same time.

 

[cptjeff]

Tons of players characters take a beating whenever they get traded from a Canadian or Original 6 franchise.

Seguin's character still takes one from Boston to this day.

I don't really put any stock into it without specific stories.

And the museum one is the biggest one I've heard so far.

Yeah, my immediate instinct hearing all this stuff is that he's introverted and hates jock culture. Which makes me like him a lot more, and we've had players fitting that profile do well here before. Including and especially Pitkanen.