Proposal: Lindholm for Ceci and 1st round pick

[dracom]

I would offer Nylander + 2018 1st from the Leafs for Lindholm. Any takers?

No thanks. Lindholm has proven more than Nylaner and he plays the more important position. That 1st has no guarantee of a being a lottery pick, especially when you add Lindholm to that roster. Mathews is the only guy I would be ok trading Lindholm for. And of course the Leafs would be against that.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I would offer Nylander + 2018 1st from the Leafs for Lindholm. Any takers?

That would prob be close value wise of he was available

 

[Ducks in a row]

I would offer Nylander + 2018 1st from the Leafs for Lindholm. Any takers?

Not interested at all.

 

[mashedpotato]

I hate all this talk for Lindholm - we can't be serious about trading him... Someone propose getting rid of some of the older contracts on our team for picks to make room for him.

 

[Vipers31]

I would offer Nylander + 2018 1st from the Leafs for Lindholm. Any takers?

Kudos on including something that hurts. But until trading Lindholm becomes a reality, it won't be enough of an attractive scenario to contemplate.

 

[Beezeral]

Don't get the ceci love. He's getting abused by the wings right. Ow.

 

[Raspewtin]

This would work great if Lindholm wasn't excellent and Ceci wasn't garbage

 

[xxreact9]

I hate all this talk for Lindholm - we can't be serious about trading him... Someone propose getting rid of some of the older contracts on our team for picks to make room for him.

There's less than a 0% chance he is moved. In other words, it's impossible. Offer sheet, maybe but extremely unlikely.

He'll be a Duck in a few weeks. Still working on visa, no urgency to get deal done with gap so close.

 

[50 in 07]

Don't get the ceci love. He's getting abused by the wings right. Ow.

Ah yes the proven best way to judge a player, use a single game performance.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

Nothing. Completely agree.

He'd be the Sens best player.

Like I said in a poll thread, Hampus Lindholm has quickly become the most overrated player in HF history.

 

[darkwingduck]

Like I said in a poll thread, Hampus Lindholm has quickly become the most overrated player in HF history.

Think this is a bit unfair. So many trade proposals regarding Lindholm, and ducks fans on this site have just collectively said they wanted to keep him as oppose to trading him for anything (even of equal value). Anaheim drafted him, he's young, good for our team, would like him in the organization.

It is not a commentary on the offers by other teams who get offended when ducks fans say they don't want the trade. He is not a number one dman, but we hope he'll turn into one, so we'd rather keep him.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Ceci+1st is in know way fair value for Lindholm, Ceci isn't even close to Lindholm's class and Anaheim is in a win now mode so they don't really need pick they need players that can help them win. And Ceci over losing Lindholm doesn't help Anaheim in the least.

 

[dracom]

Like I said in a poll thread, Hampus Lindholm has quickly become the most overrated player in HF history.

Because we don't want to trade away the best player on our blue line who is still only 22? Ok.

The only people over valuing Lindholm aren't even Ducks fans at this point

 

[topshelf15]

Ah yes the proven best way to judge a player, use a single game performance.

Yep ,Ceci was very good against MTL in 25+ mins of playing time .Maybe him being a litle inconsistant has more to do with him still being a very young nhl defender.22 years old .But he is a Sen so he will automatically suck on HF boards

 

[Beezeral]

Ah yes the proven best way to judge a player, use a single game performance.

two separate comments. I have never been a big Ceci fan. He has been very mediocre outside of a short stretch late last season. Last night was probably one of the worst of his career. 4 terrible mistakes by him led to 4 of the wings goals. Yes, it is just one game, but my god was he brutal last night. Games that bad shouldn't happen to players who are expected to fill a top 4 role regardless of his age

Yep ,Ceci was very good against MTL in 25+ mins of playing time .Maybe him being a litle inconsistant has more to do with him still being a very young nhl defender.22 years old .But he is a Sen so he will automatically suck on HF boards

Eventually you will realize that not every negative post about the senators is rooted in anti-sens bias. What a day that will be.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

Because we don't want to trade away the best player on our blue line who is still only 22? Ok.

The only people over valuing Lindholm aren't even Ducks fans at this point

Saying things like he would be Ottawa's best player is a little ridiculous, no?

 

[oilerbear]

Like I said in a poll thread, Hampus Lindholm has quickly become the most overrated player in HF history.

Dmen establish the baseline for GF needed by a teams forwards.
Goalies try to prevnt shots in the HSCA area were they go in 8.5 to 50% of the time.

top 40:
EVGA/60 D
HSCA/60 D
Bold names are also top 40 PKGA

Larsson 1st comp
#1 EVGA
top 10 HSCA
#25 PKGA D

Doughty 2nd comp
#6 EVGA
top 40 HSCA

Niskanen 1st comp
#7 EVGA
top 20 HSCA D

Parayko 3rd comp
#8 EVGA D
Top 20 HSCA D

Martinez 2nd comp
#9 EVGA D
top 30 HSCA D
#39 PKGA D

Alzner 1st comp
#11 EVGA D
top 30 HSCA D
#33 PKGA D

Hedman 1st comp
#13 EVGA D
top 40 HSCA D
#30 PKGA D

Lindholm 1st comp
#14 EVGA D
top 10 HSCA D
#9 PKGA D

Brodin bot 2nd comp
#15 EVGA D
top 30 HSCA D

Manson 1st comp
#20 EVGA D
top 10 HSCA D
#1 PKGA D

Dumoulin 1st comp
#28 EVGA D
top 30 HSC AD
#30 PKGA D

Davidson 2nd comp
#30 EVGA D
Top 30 PKGA D
#10 PKGA D

Ceci 1st comp
#33 EVGA D
top 35 HSCA D

Suter 1st comp
#40 EVGA D
top 40 HSCA D

From these facts.
when it comes to dmen that establish Baseline GA
you kind of want the ones that cover all 3 first
then grouped by comp
then the 1st comthat cover HSCA and EVGA

All 3 1st comp
Larsson
Alzner
Hedman
Lindholm
Manson
Doumulin

All 3 2nd comp
Martinez
Davidson

HSCA and EVGA
1st comp
Niskanen
Ceci
Suter

2nd comp
Doughty
Brodin

3rd comp
Parayko

these are the D who keep fwds to perimeter at an elite level.

there are 8 that cover all 3 key markers.

another 6 that cover Even play.

if Lindholm is overated yet one of the 6 best at primary role of a d.

Is every player in the league overated?
Crosby?
Mcdavid?

 

[topshelf15]

two separate comments. I have never been a big Ceci fan. He has been very mediocre outside of a short stretch late last season. Last night was probably one of the worst of his career. 4 terrible mistakes by him led to 4 of the wings goals. Yes, it is just one game, but my god was he brutal last night. Games that bad shouldn't happen to players who are expected to fill a top 4 role regardless of his age



Eventually you will realize that every negative post about the senators is not rooted in anti-sens bias. What a day that will be.

And you not making uneducated posts about the Sens younger players then maybe i could stop .Ceci is a young NHL top 4 defender ,he has far more good games than bad ones ,But according to you being inconsisant as a younger player is only limited to any other young player that doesnt play for Ottawa.He is just garbage..right

 

[Beezeral]

And you not making uneducated posts about the Sens younger players then maybe i could stop .Ceci is a young NHL top 4 defender ,he has far more good games than bad ones ,But according to you being inconsisant as a younger player is only limited to any other young player that doesnt play for Ottawa.He is just garbage..right

If you can't see the difference between inconsistent play and the disaster that was Ceci last night, I don't know what to tell you. And for the millionth time, I don't think he is a bad player. I do think he is overrated by you and other Sens fans. Right now he is a bottom pairing defenseman with low top 4 potential. There is nothing wrong with that, but for whatever reason that offends you

 

[topshelf15]

If you can't see the difference between inconsistent play and the disaster that was Ceci last night, I don't know what to tell you. And for the millionth time, I don't think he is a bad player. I do think he is overrated by you and other Sens fans. Right now he is a bottom pairing defenseman with low top 4 potential. There is nothing wrong with that, but for whatever reason that offends you

His game against MTL was very good ,played over 25 mins pushed the play up the ice all night .He is playing far more mins early this season than he has ever played before ,there are going to be a few hiccups .Kid is 22 years old ,and has played with trash most of the early part of his career .Can we let him grow a little before we label him ???I guess you cant

 

[Ducks in a row]

Karlsson#1
Phaneuf #3
Methot #4
Ceci#6
Wideman#7
Borowiecki #7 on a good day

Pretty accurate so far.

C'mon Cece!

Karlsson #1
Phaneuf #3
Methot #3
Ceci #5
Wideman #5
Borowiecki #7

Karlsson #1
Methot #3
Phaneuf #4
Ceci #5
Wideman #5
Borowiecki #7

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2138547

Take a look at what am seeing from Ceci hmm...

 

[oilerbear]

Saying things like he would be Ottawa's best player is a little ridiculous, no?

As for the worst Def Dmen

Bottom 30 HSCA and Bottom 30 EVGA last year.
Nurse
Bottom 5 2.91 EVGA
bottom 5 HSCA

Reilly
Bottom 5 2.87 EVGA
Bottom 5 HSCA d

Faulk
Bottom 5 2.90 EVGA
Bottom 20 HSCA

Giordano
Bottom 5 2.80 EVGA d
bottom 20 HSCA

--------------------------------- 6 lines of LW-C-RW fwds

Bartkowski
Bottom 10 2.70 EVGA
bottom 5 HSCA

Hunwick
Bottom 10 2.68 EVGA
bottom 10 HSCA

Karlsson
Bottom 10 2.73 EVGA
bottom 30 HSCA

J. Schultz
Bottom 10 2.67 EVGA
bottom 30 HSCA

Fowler
Bottom 15 2.59 EVGA
bottom 20 HSCA

Hamilton
Bottom 15 2.57 EVGA
Bottom 20 HSCA

Brodie
Bottom 15 2.56 EVGA
Bottom 20 HSCA

Wideman
Bottom 20 2.52 EVGA
bottom 20 HSCA

Holden
Bottom 20 2.56 EVGA
Bottom 30 HSCAD

OEL
Bottom 20 2.54 EVGA
bottom 30 HSCA

Goligoski
bottom 25 2.49 EVGA
Bottom 30 HSCA D

Subban
Bottom 30 2.48 EVGA
bottom 30 HSCA


this standard of Defence only allows 40 or less of the 420 forwards to generate a playoff caliber Goal differential.

40 forwards from last year.
these lines LW-C- RW might outscore them

the best
Kunitz-Thorton-Jagr can outscore 3.19 EVGA

the 2nd best
Lucic - Mcdavid - Gallagher can outscore 2.93 EVGA

3rd best
Williams - Schiefle - Wheeler can outscore 2.87 EVGA

4th best
Jokinen - Barkov - Kane can outscore 2.85 EVGA

5th best
Toffoli - Kuznetsov - Krieder can out score 2.84

6th best
Hertl - pavelski - Hansen can out score 2.79


Tarasenko - Krejci - Gaudreau can barely generate playoff GF for Subban's defence.


There are a lot fo the best off forwards in the game
who are playoff killers c
ause the abandoning of the hSCA
yields GA for most teams
that there best line cannot generate enough GF to be playoff competitive.

Weber the 2nd best HSCAD is what a team needs.

 

[Beezeral]

His game against MTL was very good ,played over 25 mins pushed the play up the ice all night .He is playing far more mins early this season than he has ever played before ,there are going to be a few hiccups .Kid is 22 years old ,and has played with trash most of the early part of his career .Can we let him grow a little before we label him ???I guess you cant

last night wasn't just a hiccup. good young players shouldn't have nights like last night, ever. You spent all summer touting him as a top 4 D-man and are now saying we should wait to judge him. Which one is it?

 

[oilerbear]

G wins games.
of the top 300 Even goal scorers 273 (91.0%) of them are forwards.
they generate 93.8% of the groups goals.

Dmen are 4 times less effective at generating goals.

So who do you think is the best option for generating Goal production.
1. puck in a forwards hands
or
2. A Dman abandoning the defence of the path to his own goal
to go down low and generate goals 4 times less effectively.

 

[topshelf15]

last night wasn't just a hiccup. good young players shouldn't have nights like last night, ever. You spent all summer touting him as a top 4 D-man and are now saying we should wait to judge him. Which one is it?

He is a good young top 4,lots on his plate.New coach ,new system,s playing almost 5 mins more a night in all situations ,still finding chemsistry with Phaneuf.ETC.ETC

Last night wasnt all on Ceci BTW ,if you,re goalie allows 5 goals on 25 shots .You likely arent going to win ,Marazel faced 32 from us and allowed one goal.