Speculation: Lindholm back to Rogle of SHL?

[Ducks DVM]

Hey duck fans, how long has this ownership owned the club. It seems like, the ownership doesn't want to compete with the big boys. I know they have some sort of b.s. "self imposed cap, but this is just plain stupid. I don't remember it being this difficult to get deals done for the ducks in years gone by.

Long enough.

Ryan also took a long time - he signed September 14, after throwing a public tantrum at a golf tournament. The Ducks do not overpay RFA's for potential.

 

[Trolfoli]

What does this have to do with my comment? A Kings fan wanted to OS Lindholm with less than 30k in cap space, so you make a comment about us signing a player who was arb. eligible before a player who wasn't...

Just trying to take an unnecessary shot at the Ducks?

From the Kings point of view...
Lindholm + return for trading Martinez for 1st + 2nd +3rd for an offersheet at 7X5 doesn't look that bad.

We like Martinez, but Lindholm is much younger and would be a solid addition looking to the future.

The 30K number you site is with a 25 man roster. Cutting 2 off that give you about 2M. Then say Lata replacing Clifford would free up 1M. Right there the Kings can afford to swap Lindholm for Martinez cap wise.

This would be tricky to pull off if it weren't for Gaborik going on the LTIR giving the Kings flexibility with the cap.

Even if the Kings don't offersheet, I have to think there are teams in need of a D like Lindholm that wouldn't mind slightly overpaying to pick him up for picks. Offersheet compensation below 7.2M would be a steal for a playoff bound team to pick up Lindhom.

Edit: The idea more clearly laid out assuming you get compensation for Martinez that is equal to a 1st.

Martinez + 2nd + 3 for Lindholm

That make sense from the Kings POV. Martinez is 29, Lindholm is 22.

 

[dracom]

From the Kings point of view...
Lindholm + return for trading Martinez for 1st + 2nd +3rd for an offersheet at 7X5 doesn't look that bad.

We like Martinez, but Lindholm is much younger and would be a solid addition looking to the future.

The 30K number you site is with a 25 man roster. Cutting 2 off that give you about 2M. Then say Lata replacing Clifford would free up 1M. Right there the Kings can afford to swap Lindholm for Martinez cap wise.

This would be tricky to pull off if it weren't for Gaborik going on the LTIR giving the Kings flexibility with the cap.

Even if the Kings don't offersheet, I have to think there are teams in need of a D like Lindholm that wouldn't mind slightly overpaying to pick him up for picks. Offersheet compensation below 7.2M would be a steal for a playoff bound team to pick up Lindhom.

Edit: The idea more clearly laid out assuming you get compensation for Martinez that is equal to a 1st.

Martinez + 2nd + 3 for Lindholm

That make sense from the Kings POV. Martinez is 29, Lindholm is 22.

So basically you need to move a bunch of pieces to even consider OS him? Yeah, good luck with that. Enjoy your fantasy land.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

From the Kings point of view...
Lindholm + return for trading Martinez for 1st + 2nd +3rd for an offersheet at 7X5 doesn't look that bad.

We like Martinez, but Lindholm is much younger and would be a solid addition looking to the future.

The 30K number you site is with a 25 man roster. Cutting 2 off that give you about 2M. Then say Lata replacing Clifford would free up 1M. Right there the Kings can afford to swap Lindholm for Martinez cap wise.

This would be tricky to pull off if it weren't for Gaborik going on the LTIR giving the Kings flexibility with the cap.

Even if the Kings don't offersheet, I have to think there are teams in need of a D like Lindholm that wouldn't mind slightly overpaying to pick him up for picks. Offersheet compensation below 7.2M would be a steal for a playoff bound team to pick up Lindhom.

Edit: The idea more clearly laid out assuming you get compensation for Martinez that is equal to a 1st.

Martinez + 2nd + 3 for Lindholm

That make sense from the Kings POV. Martinez is 29, Lindholm is 22.

Is this serious

 

[Pops]

Long enough.

Ryan also took a long time - he signed September 14, after throwing a public tantrum at a golf tournament. The Ducks do not overpay RFA's for potential.

In theory their reasons are well founded, but it's still going to cause a lot of grief for ducks players,only wanting what other players, of their calibre are getting. Lindhoms contract should be in the Ekblad range, not the Reilly or Jones range. He is that good, now, forgetting about potential, and that's how he should be paid.

 

[Raymoondo]

From the Kings point of view...
Lindholm + return for trading Martinez for 1st + 2nd +3rd for an offersheet at 7X5 doesn't look that bad.

We like Martinez, but Lindholm is much younger and would be a solid addition looking to the future.

The 30K number you site is with a 25 man roster. Cutting 2 off that give you about 2M. Then say Lata replacing Clifford would free up 1M. Right there the Kings can afford to swap Lindholm for Martinez cap wise.

This would be tricky to pull off if it weren't for Gaborik going on the LTIR giving the Kings flexibility with the cap.

Even if the Kings don't offersheet, I have to think there are teams in need of a D like Lindholm that wouldn't mind slightly overpaying to pick him up for picks. Offersheet compensation below 7.2M would be a steal for a playoff bound team to pick up Lindhom.

Edit: The idea more clearly laid out assuming you get compensation for Martinez that is equal to a 1st.

Martinez + 2nd + 3 for Lindholm

That make sense from the Kings POV. Martinez is 29, Lindholm is 22.

You sure that's enough for Martinez? I think the Ducks can do you an even bigger favour.

 

[Sojourn]

In theory their reasons are well founded, but it's still going to cause a lot of grief for ducks players,only wanting what other players, of their calibre are getting. Lindhoms contract should be in the Ekblad range, not the Reilly or Jones range. He is that good, now, forgetting about potential, and that's how he should be paid.

You know, we watch him every game. We have a pretty good idea how good he is. I'm not comfortable paying him more than 6. His offensive numbers aren't there, and he hasn't played consistently enough at a top pairing+ level.

I know people love to rave about his statistics, but there's a reason you aren't seeing Anaheim fans on the "oh, he's a #1 defenseman" bandwagon. It's because he isn't one yet. He has the potential. But is he worth 6+ now? No. He absolutely is not.

 

[Pops]

You know, we watch him every game. We have a pretty good idea how good he is. I'm not comfortable paying him more than 6. His offensive numbers aren't there, and he hasn't played consistently enough at a top pairing+ level.

I know people love to rave about his statistics, but there's a reason you aren't seeing Anaheim fans on the "oh, he's a #1 defenseman" bandwagon. It's because he isn't one yet. He has the potential. But is he worth 6+ now? No. He absolutely is not.

Well said, by a very knowledgeable ducks fan. I'll keep that in mind, when reading about all his potential suitors, trying to pry him from the ducks.

 

[Ducks DVM]

In theory their reasons are well founded, but it's still going to cause a lot of grief for ducks players,only wanting what other players, of their calibre are getting. Lindhoms contract should be in the Ekblad range, not the Reilly or Jones range. He is that good, now, forgetting about potential, and that's how he should be paid.

A lot of people (most, even?) would say that Ekblad doesn't deserve Ekblad's salary.

Lindholm wants a top 10-15 cap hit for defensemen. That's his ceiling, not where he is now. The players being paid that way have either put up 40-50 points in a season or indisputably been the best defenseman on their team for an entire season prior to getting those contracts - usually both. Lindholm has done neither.

 

[Jakey53]

STOP pissing off your Key RFA Pay them what they are worth

Are they really that far apart? I realize Anaheim is a budget team but you can't let your best young player walk. They were very generous with the Kesler, Bieksa and Hagelin contracts so I don't know what's going on here.

This is what happens when you over pay for a player. The next in line agent starts to play hard ball with the team.

 

[paine]

A lot of people (most, even?) would say that Ekblad doesn't deserve Ekblad's salary.

Lindholm wants a top 10-15 cap hit for defensemen. That's his ceiling, not where he is now. The players being paid that way have either put up 40-50 points in a season or indisputably been the best defenseman on their team for an entire season prior to getting those contracts - usually both. Lindholm has done neither.

Lindholm is a top 15 defenseman in the league. That's not his ceiling. His ceiling is a Norris Trophy winner.

6x8 would be a great deal for the Ducks in a few years.

 

[Vipers31]

Lindholm is a top 15 defenseman in the league. That's not his ceiling. His ceiling is a Norris Trophy winner.

He's not top-15 now. No Ducks fan even had that idea at any point of the season, until offseason rolled around along with advanced stat discussions, which saw Lindholm that high on some lists, so he seemed to morph into that retroactively. That's what happens when the actual game moves to the background. Lindholm is great, but he isn't top-15, yet.

That said, I do agree with you that top-15 really isn't his ceiling. A Norris Trophy, at this point, is a bit of a stretch given the offensive output that requires and Hampus only ever having shown relatively few glimpses of that, but I wouldn't really object to it as ceiling.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

I for one am really excited about hampus offense this season. After team told him to shoot more last season he potted a good amount of his goals without the last third of the season. Going out on a whim here but I'll say 15 goals 17 apples his coming year a lot depends on what PP he mans

 

[Ducks DVM]

Lindholm is a top 15 defenseman in the league. That's not his ceiling. His ceiling is a Norris Trophy winner.

6x8 would be a great deal for the Ducks in a few years.

I didn't say top 10-15 defenseman. I said top 10-15 CAP HIT for defensemen. And those guys with very few exceptions score a LOT more points than Lindholm does.

As do Norris trophy winners.

Having said that, he's not a top 15 defenseman right now, because he hasn't had the yearlong consistency, zone responsibility, matchup responsibility, ice time (54th), or production (58th) of one of those guys. Shot suppression stats (4th) in isolation do not a top 15 defenseman make. Mainly IMO the consistency. Let him be consistently good for an entire year before anointing him.

I won't argue that he COULD win a Norris. I think he will need to show massive improvement in his offensive game, or it will require a down year for defensemen for that to happen though. It's too much about points right now.

 

[paine]

He's not top-15 now. No Ducks fan even had that idea at any point of the season, until offseason rolled around along with advanced stat discussions, which saw Lindholm that high on some lists, so he seemed to morph into that retroactively. That's what happens when the actual game moves to the background. Lindholm is great, but he isn't top-15, yet.

That said, I do agree with you that top-15 really isn't his ceiling. A Norris Trophy, at this point, is a bit of a stretch given the offensive output that requires and Hampus only ever having shown relatively few glimpses of that, but I wouldn't really object to it as ceiling.

OEL
Giordano
Faulk
Keith
Ekblad
Doughty
Suter
Weber
McDonagh
Karlsson
Letang
Burns
Pietrangelo
Stralman (?)
Hedman

That's 15. Who am I missing?

I didn't say top 10-15 defenseman. I said top 10-15 CAP HIT for defensemen. And those guys with very few exceptions score a LOT more points than Lindholm does.

As do Norris trophy winners.

Having said that, he's not a top 15 defenseman right now, because he hasn't had the yearlong consistency, zone responsibility, matchup responsibility, ice time (54th), or production (58th) of one of those guys. Shot suppression stats (4th) in isolation do not a top 15 defenseman make. Mainly IMO the consistency. Let him be consistently good for an entire year before anointing him.

I won't argue that he COULD win a Norris. I think he will need to show massive improvement in his offensive game, or it will require a down year for defensemen for that to happen though. It's too much about points right now.

You and I both know a contract signed a few years ago isn't the same as a contract signed today. For example, Burns will make $5.76M this year, but he's going to make more than that in his next contract.

 

[Ducks DVM]

You and I both know a contract signed a few years ago isn't the same as a contract signed today. For example, Burns will make $5.76M this year, but he's going to make more than that in his next contract.

Because for a while the Cap was going up like a rocket. Burns signed that contract on a year (2011) when the Cap was 70.2M - up from 64.3 the year before, and 59.4 the year before that. The Cap this year is 73M. Do not expect massive increases. Remember when all the offensive stars were going to be getting what Toews and Kane did because the Cap would keep going up? That didn't happen either. You're actually making the case that Lindholm should be getting Burns money or less for me.

 

[TGWL]

OEL
Giordano
Faulk
Keith
Ekblad
Doughty
Suter
Weber
McDonagh
Karlsson
Letang
Burns
Pietrangelo
Stralman (?)
Hedman

That's 15. Who am I missing?



You and I both know a contract signed a few years ago isn't the same as a contract signed today. For example, Burns will make $5.76M this year, but he's going to make more than that in his next contract.

Subban and Josi

I <3 stralman, but would include guys like carlson and vlasic before him. Unless I missed the point of the list.

 

[Rebels57]

Sure Trouba and Laine for Lindholm

Oh Jesus Christ, you'd think Lindholm was the second coming of Bobby Orr with comments like this.

 

[paine]

Subban and Josi

I <3 stralman, but would include guys like carlson and vlasic before him. Unless I missed the point of the list.

Apparently I skipped over Nashville.

I agree with you about Stralman (hence the ? next to his name), but I know people on here love him.

Here's the updated list. Lindholm may not be in the top 15, but he's definitely in the top 20.

OEL
Giordano
Faulk
Keith
Ekblad
Doughty
Suter
Weber
McDonagh
Karlsson
Letang
Burns
Pietrangelo
Hedman
Subban
Josi

 

[paine]

Because for a while the Cap was going up like a rocket. Burns signed that contract on a year (2011) when the Cap was 70.2M - up from 64.3 the year before, and 59.4 the year before that. The Cap this year is 73M. Do not expect massive increases. Remember when all the offensive stars were going to be getting what Toews and Kane did because the Cap would keep going up? That didn't happen either. You're actually making the case that Lindholm should be getting Burns money or less for me.

You don't think the cap will go up in the next 8 years? The Ducks are foolish if they think Lindholm will sign an 8 year deal worth less than $6M per.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Apparently I skipped over Nashville.

I agree with you about Stralman (hence the ? next to his name), but I know people on here love him.

Here's the updated list. Lindholm may not be in the top 15, but he's definitely in the top 20.

OEL
Giordano
Faulk
Keith
Ekblad
Doughty
Suter
Weber
McDonagh
Karlsson
Letang
Burns
Pietrangelo
Hedman
Subban
Josi

There's a good argument for Lindholm>ekblad

Also burns is great at offense no doubt but he got abused in the playoffs last year defensively I would say vlasic>burns defensively

 

[Vipers31]

Apparently I skipped over Nashville.

I agree with you about Stralman (hence the ? next to his name), but I know people on here love him.

Here's the updated list. Lindholm may not be in the top 15, but he's definitely in the top 20.

OEL
Giordano
Faulk
Keith
Ekblad
Doughty
Suter
Weber
McDonagh
Karlsson
Letang
Burns
Pietrangelo
Hedman
Subban
Josi

Maybe he's actually closer to it than I thought. I wouldn't have Ekblad on the "better" list, and based on the past two seasons I'm not sold on McD deserving to be there, either. I'd have Vlasic there, though, and maybe Carlson. With about every other name I can come up with, I can see room for an argument, so my dismissal might have been a bit quick.

 

[TGWL]

There's a good argument for Lindholm>ekblad

Also burns is great at offense no doubt but he got abused in the playoffs last year defensively I would say vlasic>burns defensively

What argument would that be?

 

[Vipers31]

What argument would that be?

What argument wouldn't there be? Goalscoring is really the only thing Ekblad has on him, currently. Probably a slight edge to Ekblad for overall offensive play, but defensively the gap is bigger in Lindholm's favour - as of now. That might well change, but for now, not hard to see Lindholm as a better player. Ekblad still got (adequately) sheltered, whereas Lindholm did the sheltering for Manson, while remaining rather dominant.

 

[1909]

OEL
Giordano
Faulk
Keith
Ekblad
Doughty
Suter
Weber
McDonagh
Karlsson
Letang
Burns
Pietrangelo
Stralman (?)
Hedman

That's 15. Who am I missing?



You and I both know a contract signed a few years ago isn't the same as a contract signed today. For example, Burns will make $5.76M this year, but he's going to make more than that in his next contract.

I would add Josi.

And some nostalgic Habs fans would say Subban.