Sneaks into the top 50 wingers? He's probably quite easily a top 25 winger in the NHL. He's a 25+25 winger who tilts the ice significantly.
Prospect Info: Lias Andersson
- Thread starter Amazing Kreiderman
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Sneaks into the top 50 wingers? He's probably quite easily a top 25 winger in the NHL. He's a 25+25 winger who tilts the ice significantly.
eco's bones
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Wingers I'd prefer to Kreider in no particular order--Mats Zuccarello, Phil Kessel, Alexander Ovechkin, Artemi Panarin, Cam Atkinson, Jakub Voracek, Wayne Simmonds, Taylor Hall, Mike Hoffman, Mark Stone, Max Pacioretty, Brad Marchand, David Pastrnak, Steven Stamkos, Nikita Kucherov, Ondrej Palat, Viktor Arvidsson, Patrick Kane, Vladimir Tarasenko, Jamie Benn, Blake Wheeler, Patrik Laine, Corey Perry, Rickard Rakell, Joe Pavelski, Johnny Gaudreau. That's 26 right there.
Then there's a whole other group I'd put in his range--JT Miller, Buchnevich and Nash on the Rangers, Patric Hornqvist, Conor Sheary, TJ Oshie, Nick Foligno, Jeff Skinner, Kyle Palmieri, Nazem Kadri (when he's playing wing--but if not him William Nylander and Mitch Marner work just as well), Kyle Okposo, Jonathan Huberdeau, Brandon Saad, Zach Parise, Nino Neiderreiter, Alexander Steen, Nikolaj Ehlers, Gabriel Landeskog, Jakob Silfverberg, Milan Lucic, Tyler Toffoli and Daniel Sedin.
Kreider's really unique ability is his size and speed. He's not hit 30 goals yet and it's not clear whether he's ever going to hit 60 points. He disappears for stretches and when he disappears from the score sheet --it's not like with someone like Nash that he'll help in other ways with a steady defensive game/good penalty killing. Kreider's always been a little low on hockey IQ to my eyes. When his offensive game is going he is one exciting player and he would be arguably elite if he had it going more often.
So let's put him between 35 and 45 and leave it at that.
Let's just say i don't agree with that list, but this is a Lias thread so i'll drop the Kreider thing with that 
Edit: Okey, i made one more Kreider comment lol, done now ;D
Edit: Okey, i made one more Kreider comment lol, done now ;D
Yeah, i think Kreider is comfortably in the top 25-30 winger in the league. The way he drives play in combination with everything else is really rare.
- Jul 28, 2011
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I didn't say he had bad hands. Some people define hands by flashy dangles. Can Lias dangle? Yes, I think he can. I think Lias has above average hands. But if that's how you judge Hands, and you're looking for the flashy, most fantastic dangles, that's the only way you can say he doesn't have great hands.
- Aug 5, 2010
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That pass that he made at WJSS is how hands have to be judged. Dangling is more about creativity imho.
Agreed. Dangling looks great on the camera with rapid hand movement and all. Players with the best hands keep it smooth and only use quick hands when they have to.
Made Dan
Registered User
For sure. It's far more impressive for players to use their positioning/size to create that separation. That is more reliable. That coupled with timely stick-handling is the most impressive/best of both worlds.
BBKers
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Some of you guys "waiting for Kreider" (he is IMO a disappointment so far on the score sheet with inconsistent play and far too many games off- but shows brilliant flashes at times teasing the mind to irritating heights) remind me of a story I once heard about Brazil. A professor from Rio was asked what he thought of the economic future of his homeland as being "the country of the future". He paused and said "Yes, you are right. Brazil is the country of the future. And it always will be".
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
Wait, what? I know this is the Andersson thread so I hesitate to continue to go OT, but is this serious? Zuccarello is a much, much better player than Kreider. He's the Ranger's best player in my opinion, definitely the best forward.
I love Zuke but Kreider consistently is put in the top 20 (even top 10) among wingers when the smart twitter people make their WAR models or similar things.
I know these models aren't perfect but when every single model (made by different people with different methodology) come up with the same thing, then there's probably something there.
Think what you want about Kreider and his perceived inconsistency, but he gets on ice results like a baws.
I know these models aren't perfect but when every single model (made by different people with different methodology) come up with the same thing, then there's probably something there.
Think what you want about Kreider and his perceived inconsistency, but he gets on ice results like a baws.
BBKers
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Is Hoffman an elite winger? Nobody can deny that Hoffman was on another planet than Kreider in our series against Ottawa. He killed us, Kreider accomplished very little. I think that is the problem people have with Kreider. No matter what the charts and stats say, its the result and not the predictions that matter. Kreider has not been that leader for us.
I think BBKers comment above about Brazil was pretty fitting.
OTOH, sometimes it takes a little longer to really get a hairy chest. Being born in 1981, I remember Scott Stevens as mostly being one of the most physical and meanest players in the league.
Hence I was really surprised when I saw a rerun of the 1994 POs and G1 between NJ and NYR. Mark Messier really manhandled Scott Stevens, it was borderline Tom Wilson on Dan Boyle stuff. From shift one, Messier just ran him and tossed him around. Adam Graves also had a huge edge on Scott Stevens in that series. Scott Stevens was 29 y/o at that time and had played in the league for like 10 years. I definitely think that experience changed Scott Stevens. After it, he took his physical game and punishing game to another level.
Its not 1994 anymore. And yes, I think metrics can be very very useful. But for those who think -- everything -- can be found in stats, or even looks at them as more or less a sole origin of information on a topic, check that first 10 minutes of G1 between NYR and NJ in 1994. Its effectfull. Kreider has just not been able to assume that leadership role for us in any meaningful way when it really matters. In a sense, from this perspective, I think it was unfortunate that MTL traded PK Subban. He was someone who really got Kreider engaged.
These things are also important to remember regarding Lias Andersson. Being "ready" has many dimensions.
Edge
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Kreider scored 28 goals last season and lead the Rangers.
As many as Tavares and more than guys like Monahan, Wheeler and all but about 30 players in the NHL.
Is he imperfect, yes. But so are a lot of players in the league.
Again, I think part of the problem is that we have to understand that anything less than an elite superstar is going to have some flaws. Hell, even when we have elite superstars we can find flaws (Messier, Leetch, Jagr, Lundqvist, etc.).
Some of what we're seeing now is what happens when you spend years getting so wrapped up in projections and imaginary possibilities, that you can no longer accept and appreciate the reality of what a player is.
Kreider is a first line, 25-30 goal, 50-60 point player. In today's NHL, that's a very good player.
As many as Tavares and more than guys like Monahan, Wheeler and all but about 30 players in the NHL.
Is he imperfect, yes. But so are a lot of players in the league.
Again, I think part of the problem is that we have to understand that anything less than an elite superstar is going to have some flaws. Hell, even when we have elite superstars we can find flaws (Messier, Leetch, Jagr, Lundqvist, etc.).
Some of what we're seeing now is what happens when you spend years getting so wrapped up in projections and imaginary possibilities, that you can no longer accept and appreciate the reality of what a player is.
Kreider is a first line, 25-30 goal, 50-60 point player. In today's NHL, that's a very good player.
- Aug 5, 2010
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broadwayblue
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Because it's easy to complain about anyone who isn't the best at everything. Good players aren't sexy, so it's easy to under appreciate them.
As others have mentioned, Kreider drives the play better and hes overall more impactful, this has especially been the case come playoff time, last season aside.
Kaapodonna
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