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We've got a Swedish blogger saying that "I've heard that this is the plan" in regards to Lias being loaned to an SHL club. Is there any actually solid information about this coming out of sources in North America?
Speculation: Lias Andersson asks for a trade - Part II
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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Yeah, if he's so desperate to not play for our organization that he would sit out all of this season and all of next season (which he won't do, but we'll entertain the idea), and STILL told us he wasn't coming back to play for us? I would absolutely, 100% let him walk. If he wants to try to latch on with another NHL organization, sure, go for it. He's worth nothing to me at that point, and if he doesn't want to play in the NHL he can go elsewhere regardless of what we do. I don't really have anything else to say about it.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Heard from who? Not the NYR.
That might be Lias' "plan" but I don't see why the Rangers do him any favors. It's not in their best interests at this point in the game.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
Disagree
They need him to play if they want to trade him and get something back of any value
It would be wise for them to just allow him to play in Sweden the rest of the year
BBKers
Registered User
Lets for a moment suppose (not saying this will happen or heard it will happen) that the following scenario instead ensues. Rangers hit a big skid in January. The entire coaching staff is subsequently fired. Lias gets a new chance from the new coach (after signing with Frölunda with the Rangers approval) - say it is Mike Babcock. He works his way up to a third line center role and is either dealt for an amicable return or becomes a staple of a future winning PO team. That is the better asset management procedure by GMJG. Personal vendettas may feel good - but they seldom are the correct path of a smart man. There are a lot of things we do not know anything about here. Or amongst the beatnix writers. Everyone is very tight lipped. But, something is up. That I have heard. Today.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
He’s worth nothing at that point, yet you still do not allow someone to dictate terms like that due to a hissy fit. Far too many assets invested for that.
This is what I kinda been picturing. Frankly I think people have it twisted. I'm not so sure this guy has some vendetta with the organization I think it's as simple as a player and a coach not seeing eye to eye
Edit: Not necessarily the timing per se but the staff getting fired and Andersson getting a new start with a fresh set of eyes
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Yeah, let's just let players quit on the team on a whim and go let them play anywhere they want to "increase their value"
Screw him. Let him sit the rest of the year to set a precedent for the future and loan him someplace next year. This guy doesn't deserve any favors from us.
What does the "precedent" matter? This isn't some union grievance where we're actually establishing a precedent that will be binding upon us moving forward. You can do one thing with Lias and then in the event it happened with someone else you can handle it in a completely different manner. The precedent we set here isn't really a precedent.
I mean you can say "Well we need to be firm to discourage anyone else from trying this shit", and I'm generally fine with that idea, but I don't exactly see a bunch of our kids lining up to forfeit half a season of salary or potentially even more, sitting out for months, a year, or however long, while simultaneously torpedoing their already dwindling chances at becoming an impact NHL player. I mean Lias' situation--high pick being unhappy with his role, with the NHL coach, not wanting to play in the AHL--I don't think it's really uncommon. And yet basically no one does what Lias did because even under the realistic best-case scenario, what he's doing sucks for him. So I don't think the "precedent" is really important because it doesn't actually set a precedent, and the situation is so rare.
I think it's far more prudent to handle this situation as a unique situation and make decisions accordingly. It's not about doing him favors, it's about doing what you think is best for his value; and if that happens to feel like it's also "helping" Lias, f*** it. I only care about the Rangers getting the best out of this situation at this point.
It feels like people want the Rangers to come out "on top" here and get a reasonable return, but also want Andersson to get f***ed. I don't care about what eventually becomes of Andersson, I just want the best return we can get. And am okay doing whatever we need to do to make that happen.
At a certain point is it a favor? Are we ok with never getting any assets in return? At what point is he a sunk cost.
Also keep in mind that this doesn't occur in a vacuum. Other international players will watch this and depending on how we handle it, it can influence their desire to play for us.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Of course this would set a bad precedent. Lias' impact on Lias' "value" by playing in the SEL will be minimal. He's accomplished nothing. He's quit on an organization at barely 21 years old while proving next to nothing at an NHL level. There's an impact to the future here if the Rangers say, "that's okay, here, go play in some other league while we look to accommodate your request". It's one thing if you've put in the miles and you're ready to play at an NHL level and there's no room in front of you. I'm not about the Rangers "winning" anything other than setting the table for future picks and they way they are handled. The Rangers are going to get next to nothing for Andersson whether he plays in the SEL this spring or not. At this point you have to show the blueprint for the future for other prospects. If Lias gave his all, put in the time/miles that he needed to, and still wasn't given a legitimate shot (he was) then my take on this would be different.
He's barely 21, playing the most difficult forward position in the NHL in a league where there aren't a whole lot of successful 20-21 centers, and has only shown that he doesn't belong here yet. He should be in the AHL working on his craft instead of pouting and quitting and flying home.
The organization cannot allow this type of behavior to be rewarded with "go play in another league until we can get some scraps back for you". He's a 7 OA pick which is an asset the Rangers rarely see. You can't cave in here.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
I guess I don’t view allowing him to play in another league as a favor to him
I see it as the team doing what’s best for the organization based on the situation
I understand the Rangers maybe wanting to be petty about it but it just doesn’t feel like a wise choice
The coaching getting scrapped and him coming back though isn’t something I thought of. It’s pretty obvious Lias doesn’t like Quinn. And if I’m being honest, doesn’t seem like Quinn likes Lias all that much.
Lias coming back after a coaching change is possible I guess but it just feels like this situation ends with him out of the organization
I see it as the team doing what’s best for the organization based on the situation
I understand the Rangers maybe wanting to be petty about it but it just doesn’t feel like a wise choice
The coaching getting scrapped and him coming back though isn’t something I thought of. It’s pretty obvious Lias doesn’t like Quinn. And if I’m being honest, doesn’t seem like Quinn likes Lias all that much.
Lias coming back after a coaching change is possible I guess but it just feels like this situation ends with him out of the organization
Speedtrials
Registered User
Its just strange because since that first year back with Jagr and Lundqvist, the Rangers have been pretty good at developing their prospects. To see how bad this situation has become over the past year is startling. I would think there has to be more about this than we know.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
I guess I don't view it as you do.
The person being "petty" here is Lias, not the Rangers. He's under contract, he's obligated to play for them, they have his NHL rights for the foreseeable future. The Rangers didn't commit the "wrong" here.
If he were older or more accomplished I'd probably choose a different path. He bailed without notice, he's not NHL ready, he didn't do well at an AHL level either, and he's seemingly entitled. He screwed the organization completely. His value couldn't be much less than it is right now and he couldn't have put the Rangers in a worse spot if he tried. It's not petty. It's precedent.
What's "best" for the Rangers is a clear message to future prospects that this path is simply unacceptable. Request a trade, sure, but put in the work while you're waiting for it and don't completely screw your organization by quitting and taking all of your toys and going home.
HFsNumber1Heel
FKA Roo Returns...Still A Contrarian Apparently
The most unlikely scenario out of all of this is Lias eventually plays for Frolunda, HV-71, etc. and out waits Quinn. Less than 10% chance of this happening, and the fan base is never going to accept him, but I'm fairly certain at this point Quinn's maximum shelf life is end of next season unless he gets visited by the ghosts of coachings past a la Tom Coughlin.
BBKers
Registered User
I kind of agree with the bolded part. But what if there is more to the picture than meets the eye here?
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Might be - that's pretty unknowable unfortunately. The whole thing happened pretty suddenly.
I would like the Rangers to allow him to play in Sweden.
Though Just our luck, he plays like crap and actually lowers his trade value.
Though Just our luck, he plays like crap and actually lowers his trade value.
Idk I think there's some emotion there. If this is another job I'm not gonna shit on a dude for trying to put himself in a better position for his career. You don't know how many chances your gonna get. Sure I don't like that he gave up on the team but I also hated his usage. I've said it before but this is a young man that believes he should be getting more impactful minutes. Give it to him. Let him put up or shut up. Nothing crazy, give us Chytils first full season, +20 points, responsible play. There's gonna be growing pains, if he can hang what was the wait? If he can't he looks silly.
SA16
Sixstring
If teams are smart (which they probably aren't) and Lias plays well in Sweden it's irrelevant but if he plays poorly it tanks his value completely so I'm not sure why we would loan him out there. There is downside with zero upside.
Eh if I have interest in acquiring Puljujarvi I'm more interested seeing him be super productive overseas than see him sit out for the rest of the season
I just can't see how "helping" Lias here sends any kind of signal to anyone in the future. I mean, Lias is losing out here no matter what happens. He's losing money, he's tarnishing his image, and he's only pushing himself further from his goal of making it in the NHL. What does he gain? I mean, what is he gaining here that other prospects would want to replicate? Guys just don't do what Lias is doing because it's idiotic and is costing him a lot. I'm just not seeing a situation other players would try to emulate, even if we "help" or "reward" him by trading him. This is not a route other guys are going to take because it "worked" for Lias.
And beyond that, if you let it drag on too long, it just becomes an ugly situation where no one looks good. Like you want to keep him out this year? Cool. But then you really need to move on in whatever way you can. "But Lias is the petulant asshole who created this mess!" Indeed he is, but from the Rangers' perspective they'll still need to resolve it, instead of letting it linger on and on.
And beyond that, if you let it drag on too long, it just becomes an ugly situation where no one looks good. Like you want to keep him out this year? Cool. But then you really need to move on in whatever way you can. "But Lias is the petulant asshole who created this mess!" Indeed he is, but from the Rangers' perspective they'll still need to resolve it, instead of letting it linger on and on.
People are acting like this hasn't happened a hundred times before. I was listening to Hockey Central the other day and they were talking about the Lias situation.
Brian Burke, GM of Vancouver, Anaheim and Toronto, said he has seen this many times.
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He pretty much said, " The kid has no clue, no leverage, and no track record. Don't even talk to him."
Now that makes way more sense to me than, "you have to let him play in the SHL to increase is trade value.:"
Bullshit. Either he figures it out or he doesn't.
The "increase in trade value" is mythical and probably not worth much anyway.
Brian Burke, GM of Vancouver, Anaheim and Toronto, said he has seen this many times.
'
He pretty much said, " The kid has no clue, no leverage, and no track record. Don't even talk to him."
Now that makes way more sense to me than, "you have to let him play in the SHL to increase is trade value.:"
Bullshit. Either he figures it out or he doesn't.
The "increase in trade value" is mythical and probably not worth much anyway.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
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