OT: Let's talk about movies (and TV shows)... Part IX

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Andy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2008
32,344
17,421
Montreal
Does it really surprise you that a Superman film, heck, a comic-book film isn't CGI heavy? Seriously?

There is being heavy and then there is being gratuitous. The scene in the trailer of Superman holding a piece of that wrecked space craft is cheap and cringe worthy. Does every aspect of a Batman fighting Superman sequence need to be CG? They had a fully CGI Batman on the side of building in the trailer, it was really sad to see.

The trailer is visually stunning, but man, the film looks like it's going to be a bloated mess with all those characters to introduce. I didn't think it was possible, but the dialogue in the trailer was worse than MoS.

I'm really not feeling this film. It's too bad comic fans put the aesthetic before the whole. It has lead to some really shallow films because they know the diehards will be happy as long as the characters and scenes look faithful in a visual way to the comic.

This trailer makes the movie look as shallow as they come.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
30,222
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Andy,

Which dialogue did you not like?

There's plenty of story in the trailer. It is clear on what the story is and the story is exactly what it should be. The world is reacting to the trauma of a nearly successful alien invasion. We're seeing different facets of the reaction: personal, political, and slso of other capes coming out. Cults are emerging, etc.

It is in no way shape or form a tired or cliche story as it is a story we have never seen before. Though we have seen countless alien invasion flicks, this will be the veey first aftermath to the alien invasion flick.

It's not introducing that many characters at all, I see Lex, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Senator, Alfred .... there are thousands of films that have successfully introduced five characters.
 

Redux91

I do Three bullets.
Sep 5, 2006
47,522
44,313
Kirkland, Montreal
There is being heavy and then there is being gratuitous. The scene in the trailer of Superman holding a piece of that wrecked space craft is cheap and cringe worthy. Does every aspect of a Batman fighting Superman sequence need to be CG? They had a fully CGI Batman on the side of building in the trailer, it was really sad to see.

The trailer is visually stunning, but man, the film looks like it's going to be a bloated mess with all those characters to introduce. I didn't think it was possible, but the dialogue in the trailer was worse than MoS.

I'm really not feeling this film. It's too bad comic fans put the aesthetic before the whole. It has lead to some really shallow films because they know the diehards will be happy as long as the characters and scenes look faithful in a visual way to the comic.

This trailer makes the movie look as shallow as they come.

have to disagree, i kind of love the idea of someone coming in right in time to save 7 astronauts from blowing up along with their rocket, just watched a bunch of apollo documentaries and it would of been nice to have a superman fly in and save a couple of unfortunate people..

i cant wait for that scene personally lol
 

peate

Smiley
Feb 16, 2007
20,085
14,939
The Island
I'm really trying to like True Detective but I think the first season just set the bar too high. This season is good, but my expectations of having my pants blown off by each episode has made me sour about the show.

The chemistry between Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey helped make season one so engaging, and the plot was also very interesting. Now it's just another cop show.
 

mitchmagic

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Apr 25, 2006
3,675
1,234
Montreal, Qc
www.typeonefilms.com
TD was always going to be VERY different one season to another (and that shall continue next season). There have been multiple articles on this and I was certainly aware that the second season was going to be nothing like the first one.

TD is a show that handpicks a set of actors to do a "victory lap". If you were hoping for a continuous story, character or atmosphere buildup - this ain't it.

Wasn't expecting a continuous story or character.

Just tone.

Don't know what articles you're referring to.
 

BlackStar

Registered User
Aug 12, 2010
3,000
611
There is being heavy and then there is being gratuitous. The scene in the trailer of Superman holding a piece of that wrecked space craft is cheap and cringe worthy. Does every aspect of a Batman fighting Superman sequence need to be CG? They had a fully CGI Batman on the side of building in the trailer, it was really sad to see.

So what are you really complaining about? Are you complaining about the amount of CGI heavy scenes or the quality of the CGI?

Unless you think Henry Cavill is really able to carry a space craft, what in the world were you expecting? And who said anything about every aspect of a Batman - Superman fight needing CGI? But we would be silly if we didn't that CGI would be heavily used in the film, of course it would.

Now, the the quality of the CGI needs to be better, no doubt about it, but this is a trailer, not the film. It will be improved upon, in fact, there is already a slight difference between the spacecraft "scene" in this trailer and the teaser. I find it weird that a person would complain about the use of CGI in a 2016 comic-book film.


The trailer is visually stunning, but man, the film looks like it's going to be a bloated mess with all those characters to introduce. I didn't think it was possible, but the dialogue in the trailer was worse than MoS.

You complain about the visuals (CGI), only to contradict that by commenting on how visual it is. I am thoroughly perplexed. As for the number of characters to introduce, lol, come on. The major characters are clearly Superman, Batman, and Lex Luthor. The rest are simply valuable supporting characters. Chris Terrio, the film's (academy award-winning) writer obviously did a fantastic job penning Argo, a film with probably more characters than this film, I am not concerned. As for the dialogue being terrible, it really seems like you are complaining for the sake of complaining.

This is clearly a complex story with seemingly clever dialogue.


I'm really not feeling this film. It's too bad comic fans put the aesthetic before the whole. It has lead to some really shallow films because they know the diehards will be happy as long as the characters and scenes look faithful in a visual way to the comic.

Generally speaking, I think you are right on the mark, no doubt about it. You may be surprised to learn that I dislike the vast majority of comic-book films. The only films of the genre that I enjoy are the two latest x-men films, the Dark Knight trilogy, and Man of Steel. Those films sell a story above anything else, even if Man of Steel had more faults than the rest. Not coincidently, those films are not Marvel/Disney films, but that's a topic for another day.

Anyways, my point is, You don't hire a man like Chris Terrio to write this film unless you are very serious about the story.

This trailer makes the movie look as shallow as they come.

Yeah, because a film about the response of the government, scientists, the religious, the rich, and the poor after the reveal of an alien superhero with potentially destructive or constructive superpowers is extremely shallow. :laugh:
 
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DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
30,222
21,697
A line in the superman trailer which sounds like 'terrible dialogue' is:

"The red capes are coming, the red capes are coming, "

It's actually a historical reference to the British red coats, with "the red coats are coming" having a very specific meaning and connotation. If you're not familiar with it the dialogue will sound stupid.

Which is just the latest example of how people's opinions on dialogue being great or terrible in this or that film is mostly entirely subjective.
 

Adriatic

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Feb 27, 2004
6,777
4,695
Eisenberg is just a bad Lex all around. Impossible to take seriously, just bad casting.
 

Kojo

Registered User
Nov 22, 2013
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TD is still good but it's not on par with the last season just yet.
 

Kojo

Registered User
Nov 22, 2013
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Why is Xavier Dolan more popular than Denis Villeneuve? It's probably not going to happen but I'm looking forward to his version of Blade Runner.
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
79,686
51,578
There is being heavy and then there is being gratuitous. The scene in the trailer of Superman holding a piece of that wrecked space craft is cheap and cringe worthy. Does every aspect of a Batman fighting Superman sequence need to be CG? They had a fully CGI Batman on the side of building in the trailer, it was really sad to see.

The trailer is visually stunning, but man, the film looks like it's going to be a bloated mess with all those characters to introduce. I didn't think it was possible, but the dialogue in the trailer was worse than MoS.

I'm really not feeling this film. It's too bad comic fans put the aesthetic before the whole. It has lead to some really shallow films because they know the diehards will be happy as long as the characters and scenes look faithful in a visual way to the comic.

This trailer makes the movie look as shallow as they come.
I might be one of the few but I liked Man of Steel
 

Kojo

Registered User
Nov 22, 2013
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2,438
Is he really?
To be perfectly honest I never watched any of Dolan movies. But I watched all of Villeneuve's and I think he could pull off Blade Runner movie. It's probably not going to happen anyway.
 

Bryson

#EugeneMolson
Jun 25, 2008
7,113
4,321
There is being heavy and then there is being gratuitous. The scene in the trailer of Superman holding a piece of that wrecked space craft is cheap and cringe worthy. Does every aspect of a Batman fighting Superman sequence need to be CG? They had a fully CGI Batman on the side of building in the trailer, it was really sad to see.

The trailer is visually stunning, but man, the film looks like it's going to be a bloated mess with all those characters to introduce. I didn't think it was possible, but the dialogue in the trailer was worse than MoS.

I'm really not feeling this film. It's too bad comic fans put the aesthetic before the whole. It has lead to some really shallow films because they know the diehards will be happy as long as the characters and scenes look faithful in a visual way to the comic.

This trailer makes the movie look as shallow as they come.

Superman is supposed to be larger than life however after rewatching that scene something does seem a bit off about it. I still think that trailer looks awesome and I'm definitely looking forward to this one. I like the darker and grittier tone of the movie. A stark contrast to the original 1989 Batman which was heavily criticized for starring Michael Keaton (a comedian) and Tim Burton ( a comedic director).

Haven't always been the biggest Affleck fan but he's got some really great movies under his belt and he pulls off batman just fine. Eisenberg on the other hand, rarely have I seen a single casting with the ability to completely ruin a movie. He's annoying as hell, he has an annoying crackly voice like someone still going through puberty and he has very limited range as I've seen enough of him to know he plays the same character in every single movie he's in. Sometimes it has to do with the bar being set so high by great actors like Gene Hackman or Rosenbaum in smallville who I had a hard time accepting as lex luthor at first but his performance was able to carry that show at times.
 

Bryson

#EugeneMolson
Jun 25, 2008
7,113
4,321
A line in the superman trailer which sounds like 'terrible dialogue' is:

"The red capes are coming, the red capes are coming, "

It's actually a historical reference to the British red coats, with "the red coats are coming" having a very specific meaning and connotation. If you're not familiar with it the dialogue will sound stupid.

Which is just the latest example of how people's opinions on dialogue being great or terrible in this or that film is mostly entirely subjective.

I'm pretty sure most people know who the red coats are, I mean it's not like some obscure reference. Eisenberg's delivery of the line just sounds really cheesy.
 

BlackStar

Registered User
Aug 12, 2010
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611
I'm pretty sure most people know who the red coats are, I mean it's not like some obscure reference. Eisenberg's delivery of the line just sounds really cheesy.

That's actually the point. It's not said in a very serious way; it's supposed to be cheesy; it's supposed to be playful.
 

BlackStar

Registered User
Aug 12, 2010
3,000
611
Superman is supposed to be larger than life however after rewatching that scene something does seem a bit off about it. I still think that trailer looks awesome and I'm definitely looking forward to this one. I like the darker and grittier tone of the movie. A stark contrast to the original 1989 Batman which was heavily criticized for starring Michael Keaton (a comedian) and Tim Burton ( a comedic director).

Haven't always been the biggest Affleck fan but he's got some really great movies under his belt and he pulls off batman just fine. Eisenberg on the other hand, rarely have I seen a single casting with the ability to completely ruin a movie. He's annoying as hell, he has an annoying crackly voice like someone still going through puberty and he has very limited range as I've seen enough of him to know he plays the same character in every single movie he's in. Sometimes it has to do with the bar being set so high by great actors like Gene Hackman or Rosenbaum in smallville who I had a hard time accepting as lex luthor at first but his performance was able to carry that show at times.

And that right there is the crux of the issue with people's thoughts on Eisenberg's Lex. It seems obvious to me that for most people, it has very little to do with Eisenberg's acting ability, but almost everything to do with their dislike for the actor.

I will admit that there were several actors I would have picked over Eisenberg before his casting, actors like Bradley Cooper, Leo Dicaprio, Joaquin Phoenix, and Matt Damon. Primarily because my favourite depictions of Luthor render a handsome or physically winsome man.

That, however, isn't at the core of the character. Simply described, Luthor is a brilliant, but, narcissistic businessman with a love for scientific research and and the social sciences. Every Lex Luthor must have those characteristics. Everything else is dependant on the plot.

As a result, even though I wasn't thrilled by Eisenberg's casting, I decided to keep an open mind since he is unquestionably a great actor, and obviously has the ability to pull of an intelligent, narcissistic, and privileged man.

Since then, everything I've been reading and now seeing about Luthor in this film has moved me from a guy with an open mind to a guy who is almost certain that Eisenberg will be a great Luthor.

The issue though, is that a lot of people don't want to accept him as Luthor because they simply dislike Eisenberg, and frankly, from what I've been reading, many people do not understand the character as well as they think they do.

It is also helpful to remember that just as Superman wasn't the established and mature Superman in Man of Steel, the same will be true for Luthor in Batman V Superman. Lex Luthor isn't evil for evil's sake, he is evil because his narcissistic nature forces him to be so as a result of Superman's existence. He truly believes that Superman's quest to help mankind actually hurts it in an evolutionary sense, and in some ways, he has a point.

Ben Affleck's casting for Batman was almost universally despised (I thought it was great casting), and as expected, that has changed dramatically after people learned and saw more of him as Batman. Well, I think people should wait before discrediting Eisenberg as Luthor. Hilariously, the harshest fans of there, comic-books fans, are a lot more accepting of Eisenberg as Lex than the general public is, just as they were when Affleck was cast as Batman. That says a lot.

Lol sorry for the essays, I am just thoroughly enjoying these discussions.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
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21,697
Joaquin Phoenix was offered the role of Lex Luthor but he turned it down. He turns down a lot of blockbuster roles.
 

mitchmagic

Registered User
Apr 25, 2006
3,675
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Montreal, Qc
www.typeonefilms.com
Yeah I wouldn't say Dolan is more popular than Villeneuve either.

I'd say in Quebec he is... certainly. He's more of a personality and a "star." Writes, directs, and acts in his own films at such a young age has brought him a certain celebrity status. He doesn't seem to want to make the transition to Hollywood like Villeneuve did.

Villeneuve is definitely more popular in Hollywood's eyes.
 
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