OT: Let's talk about movies and TV - Part XXII

[Zorba]

He was extremely weird, no doubt about it. If you lived his life and has his childhood you'd be a bit creepy too, but luckily being creepy isn't a crime.

To say he's a piece of **** because he's weird and suffered abuse at the hands of his own old man I don't agree with. You speculate he threw money around, there is one known case where he settled for cash, but if I had his money I would have settled too. This has no bearing on his innocence or guilt. He was acquitted afterall, I know, I know, this doesn't mean he actually didn't do it, but all there is 2 guys looking for payday several years after his death. People are ****ing terrible, I think you underestimate how dirty some can be for money. Did you know the accuser sued his estate in 2013, but in 2005 said nothing happened lolol. No, can't be a money grab.

Micheal Jackson was a creepy human being
I wouldn’t have put any passed him
My belief is he is a molester. World is safer without him

 

[le_sean]

Vast amounts of pornographic material eh? They had a search warrant before he knew anything about it and they found **** all.

Items Discovered by Police In Michael Jackson's Residence (NSFW)

They found plenty of shady shit. Just because he could afford the greatest lawyers to make any argument against it. If your kids slept over with a strange man and he had this stuff all over, you’d f***ing lose it.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

They found absolutely nothing. They found art collections, try again and next time cite a credible source. All these claims were debunked 13 years ago.

 

[groovejuice]

Into the Badlands. Season 3. 2 night premiere 3/24 3/25!

Can't wait myself. I love that ****!

 

[Runner77]

Into the Badlands. Season 3. 2 night premiere 3/24 3/25!

Can't wait myself. I love that ****!

Heard of it but never looked into it. What makes you like it?

 

[groovejuice]

Heard of it but never looked into it. What makes you like it?

I look at Into the Badlands like a future distopian, kung fu version of GOT.

It doesn't have the intricacies of GOT, but there is some depth to it and the characters are quite memorable. Lots of villains and a handful of heroes. Full of political intrigue and some beautifully choreographed fight scenes.

As I mentioned, it's not at the tier of GOT, but it is excellent. If possible, watch the previous seasons first.

 

[Kriss E]

Items Discovered by Police In Michael Jackson's Residence (NSFW)

They found plenty of shady ****. Just because he could afford the greatest lawyers to make any argument against it. If your kids slept over with a strange man and he had this stuff all over, you’d ****ing lose it.

They found nothing that was deemed illegal. They found some porn and nude books that were more considered art. They say these could have been used for grooming. Sure. Any porn you have can be considered as grooming.

The issues isn't really whether MJ was creepy. Guy was nuts. He had a plastic face, he went from black to white, and hung his baby outside the balcony. The guy was messed up.

The point was more about a blanket statement made where ''just having a sleepover can be considered as abuse''. That was a wrong statement. Nothing abusive about a sleepover. If you think this guy did stuff...well then ok, that's abusive.

 

[Kimota]

They found nothing that was deemed illegal. They found some porn and nude books that were more considered art. They say these could have been used for grooming. Sure. Any porn you have can be considered as grooming.

The issues isn't really whether MJ was creepy. Guy was nuts. He had a plastic face, he went from black to white, and hung his baby outside the balcony. The guy was messed up.

The point was more about a blanket statement made where ''just having a sleepover can be considered as abuse''. That was a wrong statement. Nothing abusive about a sleepover. If you think this guy did stuff...well then ok, that's abusive.

If anything when he was in a concert a few years ago in Europe, police raided his house and found nothing, not even videos.

But to me that was something weird the way the boys talked to MJ when a show visited him in Neverland in the 90s. They were holding hands like they were in love. Was super creepy.

 

[ECWHSWI]

The part where it says that neglect is abusive and not showing them what is right from wrong supports my point. The parents Saying it was okay for him to sleep with those kids through written consent was normalizing wrong behaviour. Sleeping with eccentric Peter Pan billionaires isn't the same as sleeping with family. It sets a very dysfunctional precedent in a young child's life.

I get I'm on the outer limits of the word abuse. I'll say there's a grey area there. I'll admit to that. But acting like calling the putting of a child in a situation where he can easily be harmed 'abuse' is some kind of crazy stretch I think is pretty disingenuous. I've already said many times I'm not invested in the idea of him being a molester. I was neutral on him for years and somewhat defended him so these assumptions that I'm making this point wholly dependent on the idea he is guilty isn't right. I'm not someone who goes around judging or condemning people. I'm not hell bent on calling MJ a monster. I get there's nuance. I was trying to add nuance to the word abuse. Maybe I didn't do a good job.

well, there's also the part where the author(s) explain that to be considered abuse, the "victim" would have to feel being abused or something, and there's also the part where said author(s) explain that in case of child being beat up (not sure that's how it's worded) there may not be abuse depending on the reasonning behind the beating of a child, sort of a "depends"... well sorry, if it can be somewhat OK when it's about beating up kids or about other kind of abuses... why wouldnt it be OK in case of a weird grown man like MJ being in bed with a young boy ?

I'm not saying it's all OK, for one it's pretty f***ed up for the parents to agree to that, their kid being in bed with a grown man ? yeah there's clearly something there... but that doesnt make MJ an abuser or child molester... (it does make the parents abuser though, if anything they saw an opportunity with a messed up MJ.


the Peter Pan comment, I really don't get... I mean, it's OK for little Joan to be in bed with Uncle Bob cause he's family but it's not with Uncle Michael cause he isnt family ? really ? I hope he just worded it wrong cause that's pretty f***ed up considering it's very well known the vast majority of abuses (not just child abuses, but ANY) come from family members first, friends/accointances second... not only that, but that's quite the lesson to teach "it's OK Joan to sleep with adult at your young age as long as they're family" you know...

 

[Kriss E]

If anything when he was in a concert a few years ago in Europe, police raided his house and found nothing, not even videos.

But to me that was something weird the way the boys talked to MJ when a show visited him in Neverland in the 90s. They were holding hands like they were in love. Was super creepy.

There is also Chris Tucker who warned MJ that the mother of the child was crazy and to watch out for her.
No doubt MJ was creepy. Just look at this face and then the way he speaks. I swear the guy could have easily been an alien from Planet WTF. But that doesn't make him a molester.
Robson, one of his victims, he's cherished MJ by himself on so many occasions, it's tough to believe him. He had his own show and dedicated an entire episode to MJ, he's worked with VMAs and such on award shows or special ceremonies for MJ on countless occasions. Not to mention, the Jackson camp used him as a witness...why would they ever take the risk of using this kid as a witness for them if MJ was actually abusing him? They would want him as far away from the stand as possible.

MJ was creepy...an abuser? Maybe, but there's never been proof of it. The documentary brought up nothing new. It just gave a platform for the alleged victims to be heard more. In a day where fact checking seems to be an after thought, where you can possibly destroy the career of a comedian (Ansari) because he was a bad date, I'm not surprised they go foward with a completely biased documentary and it's influence despite it is so powerful that music stations decide to stop playing MJ music.

But in the end, there's no proof.

 

[Kriss E]

Here's an exlpanation of abuse from a mental health article:

Keeping these definitions in mind, some actions are easy to identify as
abusive, and some are not. For instance, it seems safe enough to say
that a spouse should never strike his or her spouse, or put him or her
down verbally; such actions are always abusive. It is also easy enough
to say that all instances of forced sexual behavior (particularly where
children are involved) are abusive, and that neglect of children and
dependent elder's well-being is abusive.
It is harder to define abuse in other circumstances, however. It is a
parent's duty to teach their children how to behave properly; to not do
so would be neglectful. It is highly controversial whether corporal
punishment (striking children) is an acceptable method for disciplining
children. It doesn't seem reasonable to say that all instances of
corporal punishment are always abusive. Some parents who use corporal
punishment may do so for very legitimate reasons and under appropriate
circumstances. However, it is equally clear that some parents do cross
the line into true abusiveness with their corporal punishment
practices. Seeking out the consensus opinion of respected others in the
local community and the nation is probably the best means of
determining whether an ambiguously abusive action is abusive or not.
There are individual difference between people in terms of their
comfort level with 'abusive' behaviors as well. For example, some
couples are very volatile with one another; they may scream and yell at
each other and fight constantly. Being subjected to this high-conflict
sort of relationship might be an instance of verbal abuse for some more
sensitive people. However, if both partners in a high-conflict marriage
are adjusted to that high level of conflict and are okay with it, then
their fighting may not actually be abusive at all as applied to their
individual situation. Similarly, people who willingly and consensually
practice sexual bondage in the context of their intimate relationship
are not engaging in abusive behavior, until and unless one partner uses
it against the will of the other partner. The important take home
lesson here is to note that when it is not clear whether a particular
behavior is abusive or not, it is best to fall back on whether that
behavior feels abusive or not. If it feels abusive, it is likely to be
abusive, at least for you, and in any case, you would be justified in
escaping from that abuse. However, the same behavior might not be
abusive for another person.

Here's the link:Abuse Defined

I mean...if anything this works in my favor.
Basically they bring up how context matters which was exactly my point. You think MJ is an abuser, therefore your understanding of a sleepover in his bed is likely bad and abusive.
But the reality is you have no idea. Sure, maybe he did something and it was abusive. Maybe he was grooming kids. Maybe he was manipulating them to eventually do acts of sexual nature.
Except, you don't actually know any of this, and if MJ was just chilling with the kids with an innocent sleepover because he's a mental weirdo who just likes to chill with kids as if they're just two normal young pre-teens, well then there's nothing abusive about it.
So, back to the original post, a blanket statement saying ''just the sleepover can be considered abusive'' was just wrong. You cannot make such a statement because context matters.
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. You don't know.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

It's funny.. people should be talking about Jeffrey Epstein instead of a dead pedarast.

How many have actually heard of the Epstein case? The kind of pedophile Jackson was, wasnt the worst kind. There are pedophile rings among the elite that are more of the sociopathic and megalomaniacal nature of dominance and agression. If anyone of you thought Jackson was highly protected, it's nothing compred to those who have actual power.

Go read Epstein's visit log of his Lolita island.

 

[Mrb1p]

Into the Badlands. Season 3. 2 night premiere 3/24 3/25!

Can't wait myself. I love that ****!

Damn its still going? Expected this to be cancelled after s1, its too niche.

 

[Mrb1p]

It's funny.. people should be talking about Jeffrey Epstein instead of a dead pedarast.

How many have actually heard of the Epstein case? The kind of pedophile Jackson was, wasnt the worst kind. There are pedophile rings among the elite that are more of the sociopathic and megalomaniacal nature of dominance and agression. If anyone of you thought Jackson was highly protected, it's nothing compred to those who have actual power.

Go read Epstein's visit log of his Lolita island.

Are we grading the level of pediphilia now?

 

[mitchmagic]

There is also Chris Tucker who warned MJ that the mother of the child was crazy and to watch out for her.
No doubt MJ was creepy. Just look at this face and then the way he speaks. I swear the guy could have easily been an alien from Planet WTF. But that doesn't make him a molester.
Robson, one of his victims, he's cherished MJ by himself on so many occasions, it's tough to believe him. He had his own show and dedicated an entire episode to MJ, he's worked with VMAs and such on award shows or special ceremonies for MJ on countless occasions. Not to mention, the Jackson camp used him as a witness...why would they ever take the risk of using this kid as a witness for them if MJ was actually abusing him? They would want him as far away from the stand as possible.

MJ was creepy...an abuser? Maybe, but there's never been proof of it. The documentary brought up nothing new. It just gave a platform for the alleged victims to be heard more. In a day where fact checking seems to be an after thought, where you can possibly destroy the career of a comedian (Ansari) because he was a bad date, I'm not surprised they go foward with a completely biased documentary and it's influence despite it is so powerful that music stations decide to stop playing MJ music.

But in the end, there's no proof.

Man... wtf kind of proof do people want in abuse cases? What you want is photos and videos, right? That is incredibly rare for any sexual abuse or assault case because most people don't document their crimes. Like 99% of crimes are not documented. It comes to whether you want to believe the accusers or not. Sounds like you do not want to believe victims. Sounds like you have a very clear cut way of deciding how victims should behave after being abused and manipulated by someone with immense power and money. Not all abuse victims act the same, especially when you are being manipulated by someone with so much power and money.

When you are the most powerful celebrity in the world, and also an abuser, you feel like you can get away with anything. No one can stop you. Your power knows no end... look at Jimmy Savile. What's the difference between this and Bryan Singer? MJ is more universally loved? Come on... MJ was sleeping in beds with children. How much cognitive dissonance do you need to think that he was NOT abusing kids? No adult should be sleeping with kids. If someone came up to me and said "oh your neice is sleeping with this random person in his bed over night." Well... yup, that guy's a pedophile.

All of you also keep saying, "they guy was super messed up." OF COURSE HE WAS!!! Why is this not all the more reason for us to believe those accusing him of abuse? Children should not be sleeping in the bed of someone who, according to most people, say he was "SUPER MESSED UP WITH A TERRIBLE CHILDHOOD." Most pedophiles and abusers have bad childhoods, fyi.

You also seem to show a lack of understanding as to why Michael looks the way he did. MJ had a skin disorder called Vitiligo and changed he his skin color so that the symptoms of his disorder would not show. So why are you the person we should be believing about whether he was an abuser or not? If you lack the fundamental understanding as to why he looks the way he did?

Also, these victims would need to be some incredible actors if they were to lie like they are lying.

Also, Aziz Ansari DID violate consent by ignoring her saying "no" close to 7 times. A bad date should not include someone violating consent. A bad date is like "oh he smelled weird" or "he was soooo awkward." Not... I told him "no" but he continued to push me to do something I didn't want to do.

In both of these cases we have someone, Michael and Aziz, who used their money, fame, and power to get what they want. One used it to manipulate children and their families to abuse children while the other used it to get what he wanted out of a date.

These people are not like you or me -- they have money, they have power, and they have resources to manipulate weak and vulnerable people.

 

[groovejuice]

Damn its still going? Expected this to be cancelled after s1, its too niche.

I think it's a short season to provide some semblance of an ending to the story. Last season (2) was tremendously good.

 

[overlords]

Are we grading the level of pediphilia now?

'I have done no research on this subject whatsoever'

 

[Mrb1p]

I think it's a short season to provide some semblance of an ending to the story. Last season (2) was tremendously good.

I may give season 2 a shot, I liked it, I mean, the fight scenes are awesome... But season one was borderline cringy at times

 

[groovejuice]

I may give season 2 a shot, I liked it, I mean, the fight scenes are awesome... But season one was borderline cringy at times

I agree that season 1 was all over the place. Season 2 was tremendous, IMO.

 

[Redux91]

Yeah.. Leaving Neverland is rough..

Hard to believe they are lying by the end of it all.. id like to believe they are..but i believe more they lied about it NOT happening first... logically

The "no evidence" stuff i can see from peoples perspective, I myself would rather see them attached to lie detector tests as they tell the tales...

but....

this is MULTIPLE stories... multiple people saying these things happened... not even counting the 95 and 2003 accusations.. and all of these stories are morbidly similar...

This one guy in the docu testified FOR MJ's side in 95...meaning the very reason the first case was settled is directly tied to this lie from the very beginning..

So a reason why maybe micheal WAS innocent the first time at all.. is directly tied to this kid lying the first time... why he would be lying about actually being molested NOW doesnt make sense anymore

One has definite reason to think MJ really did all these...unthinkable things.


Im disgusted by the parents BUT... i can totally see the "impossible" decision, when that fateful moment came for all of them...when micheal asks them for the boy in his room.. if you say "no" you ruin your son's dream... say yes and he gets scarred for life behind your back....its a paradox for them, they couldnt understand the rammifications of such a decision...ESPECIALLY when you have only a couple seconds to decide...

ive spent , weve all spent 20 something years now knowing FULL well micheal invited boys into his bedroom, and weve all spent 20 years blindly thinking "ahhh he never had a childhood i understand.."

UMMMM just stepping back and looking at the whole thing from an outside perspective... the whole thing is 100% absolutely f***ed up... just hearing ANYONE IN THE WORLD saying "uhh is it ok if..your son stays in my bedroom tonight? your guys room is over there".. but why is it OK because its micheal jackson?

Just replaying that sentence over and over in my head just makes me sick to my stomach...

 

[Kimota]

My family saw A Star is Born and nobody liked it! Not one soul. All I heard was how much loved this movie was. It must have been only the soundtrack. The recurring "dislike" was that there was too much music. Like it was concert after concert after concert and there was not enough character development because of that.

I have not seen the flick yet cause I am waiting to see all the versions back to back starting with the 1930s one.

 

[cphabs]

New Godzilla movie coming out in May! Looks like a good one.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Yeah.. Leaving Neverland is rough..

Hard to believe they are lying by the end of it all.. id like to believe they are..but i believe more they lied about it NOT happening first... logically

The "no evidence" stuff i can see from peoples perspective, I myself would rather see them attached to lie detector tests as they tell the tales...

but....

this is MULTIPLE stories... multiple people saying these things happened... not even counting the 95 and 2003 accusations.. and all of these stories are morbidly similar...

This one guy in the docu testified FOR MJ's side in 95...meaning the very reason the first case was settled is directly tied to this lie from the very beginning..

So a reason why maybe micheal WAS innocent the first time at all.. is directly tied to this kid lying the first time... why he would be lying about actually being molested NOW doesnt make sense anymore

One has definite reason to think MJ really did all these...unthinkable things.


Im disgusted by the parents BUT... i can totally see the "impossible" decision, when that fateful moment came for all of them...when micheal asks them for the boy in his room.. if you say "no" you ruin your son's dream... say yes and he gets scarred for life behind your back....its a paradox for them, they couldnt understand the rammifications of such a decision...ESPECIALLY when you have only a couple seconds to decide...

ive spent , weve all spent 20 something years now knowing FULL well micheal invited boys into his bedroom, and weve all spent 20 years blindly thinking "ahhh he never had a childhood i understand.."

UMMMM just stepping back and looking at the whole thing from an outside perspective... the whole thing is 100% absolutely ****ed up... just hearing ANYONE IN THE WORLD saying "uhh is it ok if..your son stays in my bedroom tonight? your guys room is over there".. but why is it OK because its micheal jackson?

Just replaying that sentence over and over in my head just makes me sick to my stomach...

there's no but, seriously... a grown man asks you for your very child for the night, how long before you swing ? ?

impossible decision ? come on now...



pretty simple to me, if it's not ok for MJ, then it's no paradox and should be an instant no from the parents, and it should not be ok if the adult is family (like I've read here before).

 

[Zorba]

It's funny.. people should be talking about Jeffrey Epstein instead of a dead pedarast.

How many have actually heard of the Epstein case? The kind of pedophile Jackson was, wasnt the worst kind. There are pedophile rings among the elite that are more of the sociopathic and megalomaniacal nature of dominance and agression. If anyone of you thought Jackson was highly protected, it's nothing compred to those who have actual power.

Go read Epstein's visit log of his Lolita island.

I don’t wanna even touch an article about a pedophile
These are the scum of the earth. Anyone who hurts a child shoulda die a long and torturous death
Also. I don’t miss MJ at all. Guy was a f***ing creep

 

[SquiddFX]

Into the Badlands. Season 3. 2 night premiere 3/24 3/25!

Can't wait myself. I love that ****!

I’ll probably be watching S3 next. I’ve enjoyed the series a lot. In a previous thread I said the fight choreography was way better than Iron Fist which was released around the same time as S2 hit Netflix iirc. The show is an excellent watch just for the fighting.

I recently watched the documentary Behind The Curve and I must say it was interesting, but it could have been done better. The funniest part is watching their science experiments succeed and prove them wrong. Instead of accepting the results and change their view, they move the goal posts and explain why it isn’t the right result.