OT: Let's talk about movies and TV - Part XXII

[PaulD]

Green Book. Surprised I enjoyed it as much as I did.

 

[PaulD]

heh I think he's one of the most consistent director out there and that's not something to gloss over. I consider all of his movies to be at least good and interesting in their own way, and it's even more impressive considering the range of movie styles he's done, not many directors can jump between spaghetti western, non-chronological gangster, hong kong, WW2 and etc and make it work

If your only problem is that he's on pedestal to some people and enough for you to want to bring him down by not seeing his career as objectively as possible, it's kind of in bad faith. If you think his movies are bad then idk sure, your opinion I guess

People also put Nolan on a dumb pedestal and I still like most of his movies, pedestals don't matter, #stopPedestals2019

Res Dogs.

His first and best movie. And he ripped off the script.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

You can disagree with something and not find it abusive. It's ultimately the parents responsibility to look out for their children. That should be the real outrage here, where the **** were they?

of course you can. I actually meant to be more clear is that I thought the parents and MJ were being abusive. Now I'm using the word 'abuse' in a broader sense than usual but I don't think it's wholly unfair here.

Having a child sleep in a man's bed that we're all (from what I glean)agreeing is mentally ill in an extremely strange circumstance where waivers have to be signed, etc blurs the lines between what's appropriate and what isn't as well as setting up a precedent that is dysfunctional which can easily groom them for future abuse.

 

[Kriss E]

So you wouldn't let it happen because 'it's weird af'. So putting your children in a situation that's weird af isn't abusive? You're saying it's so weird you wouldn't let your children do it for reasons you haven't made clear besides it being weird but it doesn't cross over to being abusive. Is the Adam Sandler situation weird af too? Because you seem to bring up the example to normalize that behaviour while calling it weird af.

I really don't understand what you're arguing about. Maybe you need to read the definition of abuse because it doesn't sound like you know what it means.

 

[Kriss E]

of course you can. I actually meant to be more clear is that I thought the parents and MJ were being abusive. Now I'm using the word 'abuse' in a broader sense than usual but I don't think it's wholly unfair here.

Having a child sleep in a man's bed that we're all (from what I glean)agreeing is mentally ill in an extremely strange circumstance where waivers have to be signed, etc blurs the lines between what's appropriate and what isn't as well as setting up a precedent that is dysfunctional which can easily groom them for future abuse.

Yes, extremely strange, weird, inappropriate, bizarre, NOT abusive. That's not what it means.
And you're only saying it was abusive because you think stuff actually happened in that bed.
If your nephew or niece sleeps in your bed...is it abusive? If you're best bud's kid does...is it?

 

[ArtPeur]

Yeah, I love Hardy. He's also a complete babe to watch.

I like Hardy too but he's sometimes playing the same role again and again in every movie. He's often the badass who doesn't talk much, grumbles and kick asses (Mad Max, the Drop, Dunkirk, Legend). His presence on-screen though

I forgot he played in Band of Brothers back then. I remember watching that series a year or two ago and noticing all the big actors starting the careers in there (Hardy, Fassbender, Pegg, etc.)

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Yes, extremely strange, weird, inappropriate, bizarre, NOT abusive. That's not what it means.
And you're only saying it was abusive because you think stuff actually happened in that bed.
If your nephew or niece sleeps in your bed...is it abusive? If you're best bud's kid does...is it?

If my nephew or niece sleeps in my bed is it extremely strange, weird, inappropriate or bizarre?

 

[Kriss E]

If my nephew or niece sleeps in my bed is it extremely strange, weird, inappropriate or bizarre?

Why wouldn't it be?

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Why wouldn't it be?

so distinguish between putting your child in an extremely strange, bizarre and inappropriate situation KNOWINGLY that blurs the line between appropriate and inappropriate and sets a dysfunctional precedent AND being emotionally abusive?

 

[Mrb1p]

I like Hardy too but he's sometimes playing the same role again and again in every movie. He's often the badass who doesn't talk much, grumbles and kick asses (Mad Max, the Drop, Dunkirk, Legend). His presence on-screen though

I forgot he played in Band of Brothers back then. I remember watching that series a year or two ago and noticing all the big actors starting the careers in there (Hardy, Fassbender, Pegg, etc.)

Sometimes ? He's literally always the same dude. Except in Peaky blinders, where he shows his range. Now he's goofy, he's full of smart retorts but he's still a badass. He was also the same in Lawless..

(Ive literally seen every film/series he's been featured in.)

Didn't remember him in BOB though, I watched this in high school more than ten years ago.

Edit: I forgot but he also shows range in The revenant.

 

[Kriss E]

so distinguish between putting your child in an extremely strange, bizarre and inappropriate situation KNOWINGLY that blurs the line between appropriate and inappropriate and sets a dysfunctional precedent AND being emotionally abusive?

Do you understand that for it to have been ''abusive'' something bad must have happened?

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Do you understand that for it to have been ''abusive'' something bad must have happened?

Like setting a dysfunctional precedent of what's appropriate and what isn't?

 

[ArtPeur]

Sometimes ? He's literally always the same dude. Except in Peaky blinders, where he shows his range. Now he's goofy, he's full of smart retorts but he's still a badass. He was also the same in Lawless..

(Ive literally seen every film/series he's been featured in.)

Didn't remember him in BOB though, I watched this in high school more than ten years ago.

Edit: I forgot but he also shows range in The revenant.

I don't think I've seen all his movies but he was a bit less badassy in Rock'n'Rolla though I only remember the "dance scene" with Butler

His big shining moment comes when he's doing "border" duty with another German officer. Yep, that's it:

 

[sandviper]

I havent seen it yet, but ive heard of how Nick Fury loses his eye, if the person wasnt messing with me, I thought it was completely ridiculous.

Think ill torrent the damn thing just before End game.

How much of its box office success will be because of End game, we'll never know, and oddly enough we'll probably won't hear much about that link. Sweep sweep rug...

I won’t spoil the eye but there is a scene in Captain Marvel that can have major repercussions the MCU. Before watching Captain Marvel, rewatch Avengers AoU, specifically the farm scene in the kitchen. Then in Captain Marvel, pay attention to the scene where Fury and Danvers talk in the bar.

 

[Kriss E]

Like setting a dysfunctional precedent of what's appropriate and what isn't?

No.

 

[zx81]

Binge watched After Life on Netflix.
Really liked it but it certainly not for everyone.
I just wished Ricky Gervais went a little farther with the premise but then again it could have turned into a darker British version of "Curb" if he did which he obviousy did not want to do.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

No.

That’s emotional abuse. To have your sense of right and wrong messed with at such a fundamental level is emotionally abusive. Abusive by both parents and MJ.

It’s obvious that we’re in a semantics dispute here. You’re saying child abuse is when something overt happens and yes of course that is the case. But to normalize behaviour that is inappropriate and to blur those lines is emotionally and psychologically abusive. It is incredibly damaging to do that to anyone let alone a child.

If you agree that that would be damaging to a child then how is that not abusive?

 

[Kriss E]

That’s emotional abuse. To have your sense of right and wrong messed with at such a fundamental level is emotionally abusive. Abusive by both parents and MJ.

It’s obvious that we’re in a semantics dispute here. You’re saying child abuse is when something overt happens and yes of course that is the case. But to normalize behaviour that is inappropriate and to blur those lines is emotionally and psychologically abusive. It is incredibly damaging to do that to anyone let alone a child.

If you agree that that would be damaging to a child then how is that not abusive?

Your entire opinion is based on the fact MJ is a child molestor and did harm to these children.

If you thought MJ was like a godfather to those kids, like you would be for your nephew say, then you would find nothing wrong with sharing this bed.

You think MJ was luring these kids with gifts and manipulating them to earn their trust so he could start sexual molesting them. That's your belief here. So of course, when you think that and then talk about telling them to sleepover, it's going to be abuse.
But that's not what we were discussing. You said your GF told you ''just asking them to sleepover can be considered abuse'', that's what I was commenting on. Just asking them for a sleepover is not, in any form, abusive. So no, you can't say that.
For it to have been abusive, then he would have needed to have done the things you believe he did, ie manipulate and groom for sexual behavior.

 

[ECWHSWI]

That’s emotional abuse. To have your sense of right and wrong messed with at such a fundamental level is emotionally abusive. Abusive by both parents and MJ.

It’s obvious that we’re in a semantics dispute here. You’re saying child abuse is when something overt happens and yes of course that is the case. But to normalize behaviour that is inappropriate and to blur those lines is emotionally and psychologically abusive. It is incredibly damaging to do that to anyone let alone a child.

If you agree that that would be damaging to a child then how is that not abusive?

f***ed up ? absolutely... abusive ? not necessarly.

You are assuming whoever is in bed with a young boy/gilr KNOWS it's bad and see it that way too... like pedos who can't resist the urge although they know and understand it's wrong, they just can't resist. You know it's wrong, you do it anyway, then it can be considered abusive... but if you do not know or understand it's wrong ? if you do not understand it might (it will) mess up the boy/girl ? if you do not see anything negative about what you're doing ? if you don't see any negative reaction from the boy at any time ? you can even take it a step further... what if you know what child abusers (of any kind) are and you not only do not consider yourself to be one, but you hate/dislike/ those people ?

as f***ed up as it may seem, even in cases like this not everything is black/white, I too tend to think "no way, he knew, f***in abuser", but it cold very well not be the case...

 

[Kriss E]

****ed up ? absolutely... abusive ? not necessarly.

You are assuming whoever is in bed with a young boy/gilr KNOWS it's bad and see it that way too... like pedos who can't resist the urge although they know and understand it's wrong, they just can't resist. You know it's wrong, you do it anyway, then it can be considered abusive... but if you do not know or understand it's wrong ? if you do not understand it might (it will) mess up the boy/girl ? if you do not see anything negative about what you're doing ? if you don't see any negative reaction from the boy at any time ? you can even take it a step further... what if you know what child abusers (of any kind) are and you not only do not consider yourself to be one, but you hate/dislike/ those people ?

as ****ed up as it may seem, even in cases like this not everything is black/white, I too tend to think "no way, he knew, ****in abuser", but it cold very well not be the case...

And this is based on the opinion he did something in the first place.
As unlikely and weird as it may be, there is still the possibility he did nothing. If he viewed himself as a child and just thought those kids were his friends like two 10 year olds kids having a sleepover, well then maybe absolutely nothing sexual happened.

 

[le_sean]

One of the most disturbing parts of this whole Jackson thing is the group of fans that will defend him for life. They ignore all evidence and find him infallible. Tomorrow there could be a video released of him actually molesting a child and they would say it’s fake. We can see how there’s still a group that blindly follows the President too. It’s a scary time when we have such easy access to actual facts and they are completely dismissed because we have such easy access to them.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Your entire opinion is based on the fact MJ is a child molestor and did harm to these children.

If you thought MJ was like a godfather to those kids, like you would be for your nephew say, then you would find nothing wrong with sharing this bed.

You think MJ was luring these kids with gifts and manipulating them to earn their trust so he could start sexual molesting them. That's your belief here. So of course, when you think that and then talk about telling them to sleepover, it's going to be abuse.
But that's not what we were discussing. You said your GF told you ''just asking them to sleepover can be considered abuse'', that's what I was commenting on. Just asking them for a sleepover is not, in any form, abusive. So no, you can't say that.
For it to have been abusive, then he would have needed to have done the things you believe he did, ie manipulate and groom for sexual behavior.

okay lets try and settle this as simply as possible. It's kind of hard because you seem to want it both ways. You keep bringing up examples of nieces and nephews and Adam Sandler movies to draw analogy with the Jackson case and yet you present it as these behaviours are fine and I 'would find nothing wrong with sharing this bed.'

Yet I asked you if it was strange and inappropriate and bizarre to share a bed with your nieces and/or nephews an you answered 'Why wouldn't it be.'

So which one is it?

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

****ed up ? absolutely... abusive ? not necessarly.

You are assuming whoever is in bed with a young boy/gilr KNOWS it's bad and see it that way too... like pedos who can't resist the urge although they know and understand it's wrong, they just can't resist. You know it's wrong, you do it anyway, then it can be considered abusive... but if you do not know or understand it's wrong ? if you do not understand it might (it will) mess up the boy/girl ? if you do not see anything negative about what you're doing ? if you don't see any negative reaction from the boy at any time ? you can even take it a step further... what if you know what child abusers (of any kind) are and you not only do not consider yourself to be one, but you hate/dislike/ those people ?

as ****ed up as it may seem, even in cases like this not everything is black/white, I too tend to think "no way, he knew, ****in abuser", but it cold very well not be the case...

These are good points but I don't think the abuser has to be cognizant of their behaviour being bad in order to be abusive which I think is one of your points. I'm almost certain most emotional abusers aren't cognizant of themselves being 'abusive'.

Again, I feel that both MJ AND the parents were being abusive here. The parents for putting those children in that situation is saying that it's okay for them to sleep in a bed with a complete stranger. That blurring of the lines has huge consequences and can be deeply damaging to a child and set them up for a life of sexual abuse.

 

[Kriss E]

okay lets try and settle this as simply as possible. It's kind of hard because you seem to want it both ways. You keep bringing up examples of nieces and nephews and Adam Sandler movies to draw analogy with the Jackson case and yet you present it as these behaviours are fine and I 'would find nothing wrong with sharing this bed.'

Yet I asked you if it was strange and inappropriate and bizarre to share a bed with your nieces and/or nephews an you answered 'Why wouldn't it be.'

So which one is it?

I guess you failed to see my point. If you were looking at this situation through the eyes of ''the kid is just like a family member'' then you wouldn't find anything weird about it.
The only reason you mention abuse is because you know about these allegations.

So you cannot make blanket statement suggesting ''just sleeping in same bed is abusive'', because it isn't. There are numerous examples where having a sleepover is not in the slightest, abusive.
You are specifically looking at MJ through the eyes of a molestor and that's why you believe just spending the night was a form of abuse. If you were neutral then you wouldn't say that.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I guess you failed to see my point. If you were looking at this situation through the eyes of ''the kid is just like a family member'' then you wouldn't find anything weird about it.
The only reason you mention abuse is because you know about these allegations.

So you cannot make blanket statement suggesting ''just sleeping in same bed is abusive'', because it isn't. There are numerous examples where having a sleepover is not in the slightest, abusive.
You are specifically looking at MJ through the eyes of a molestor and that's why you believe just spending the night was a form of abuse. If you were neutral then you wouldn't say that.

Then why did you say you found it weird when I asked you?