OT: Let's talk about movies and TV - Part XXII

[Tabarouette]

Captain Marvel was aggressively average and Brie Larson was really, really bad

 

[Kriss E]

Well I believe there is a grooming phase with these predators. They need to groom the parents to think everything is okay. MJ being MJ his grooming phase needed to be more elaborate. He needed forms and legal consent.

The fact that he asked for their permission shouldn't absolve him of that act being abusive. I think it makes it all the more heinous. Putting the parents in this surreal dilemma. I mean if you think he's mentally ill and sick then you don't think having these kids sleep in the same bed of a man who was sick is abusive even if nothing overtly sexual happened?

Who knows the coercion that was going on with those testimonies from those kids when they were younger. Just imagine his insane legal team these families were up against.

Not too sure if him being child like is necessarily antithetical to someone who'd do these things. Gacy was a clown who worked kids parties. Besides that, his case seems to have very little precedent in known criminal history. I mean this is probably the stuff that would've happened to emperors or something and you could surely imagine they had the means to cover these things up just as MJ did.

Of course this doc is going to be one sided. I don't know if at this stage we need a nuanced, balanced look at a guy where the major players of this documentary are accusing him of child molestation on such a grand and grotesque scale.

I was closer to how you used to think a while ago but it's hard for me to ignore that stuff. Having a bunch of scared kids' testimony who were likely threatened beyond any measure we could possibly imagine as proof doesn't hold much weight with me. I'll watch the doc myself. Maybe I won't believe it. I'm not hugely invested in him being a monster. I was never much a fan when I was younger either so I'm fairly neutral in terms of emotional investment.

I don't get it. You haven't watch this documentary but know is entirely anecdotal and one sided, and say you don't need a balanced and nuanced look?? Again, why not? You want him to be guilty?

To clarify, Robson, one of the accusers, was not a ''kid'' when he testified the second time, once in front of jury, that MJ never molested him, he was 21.
It's one thing to do deny allegations, it's a completely different thing to purger yourself. Not just that btw, he was still dancing with MJ in 2001. In 2007, on his own show, he devoted an entire episode to MJ. In 2009, he contributed to a tribute to MJ by VMAs.
He's been after MJ for years and it all happened as his career took a dive and he seemed to be in financial woes. Same for the other accuser in this flick, he's apparently bantrupt, or was.

Also, think about it for a second, MJ called Robson to defend him in a sexual abuse trial. You really think MJ, or any predator, would call a victim to defend him in a trial on abuse?? Why in the world would he ever do that? It puts him at an insane risk. There's no way any predator would ever do that....ask someone they abused to come defend them in a case on abuse...Come on now.

Then you have one of the moms of victims who keeps smiling and talking about MJ like he was the greatest person out there. Not someone that was evil, conspired and planned sexual abuse on her son.

It just doesn't add up to me.

 

[ottawa]

Inbetweeners (2011): ★★★

Crappier version of American Pie

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I don't get it. You haven't watch this documentary but know is entirely anecdotal and one sided, and say you don't need a balanced and nuanced look?? Again, why not? You want him to be guilty?

To clarify, Robson, one of the accusers, was not a ''kid'' when he testified the second time, once in front of jury, that MJ never molested him, he was 21.
It's one thing to do deny allegations, it's a completely different thing to purger yourself. Not just that btw, he was still dancing with MJ in 2001. In 2007, on his own show, he devoted an entire episode to MJ. In 2009, he contributed to a tribute to MJ by VMAs.
He's been after MJ for years and it all happened as his career took a dive and he seemed to be in financial woes. Same for the other accuser in this flick, he's apparently bantrupt, or was.

Also, think about it for a second, MJ called Robson to defend him in a sexual abuse trial. You really think MJ, or any predator, would call a victim to defend him in a trial on abuse?? Why in the world would he ever do that? It puts him at an insane risk. There's no way any predator would ever do that....ask someone they abused to come defend them in a case on abuse...Come on now.

Then you have one of the moms of victims who keeps smiling and talking about MJ like he was the greatest person out there. Not someone that was evil, conspired and planned sexual abuse on her son.

It just doesn't add up to me.

I just wouldn't expect a balanced and nuanced doc from people accusing him of what they're accusing him of.

I said I'm not really invested in it. I definitely don't know the ins and outs of all this in the way you do. You could be right.

But all that being said, if you admit that MJ wasn't right in the head then don't you think that having kids sleep in the same bed as him could be a form of abuse? I mean getting the parent's written consent to do so? Isn't that a crazy amount of alarm bells being sounded? It's pretty much as simple as you think that it's okay that they slept in the same bed or it's not. Was it okay that that happened?

 

[overlords]

Captain Marvel was aggressively average and Brie Larson was really, really bad

You must be one of these 'Online Trolls' I keep reading about.

Rotten Tomatoes scraps pre-release user comments in effort to stop trolls

Can anybody really take review sites like rotten tomatoes or IMDB seriously anymore?

 

[Tabarouette]

You must be one of these 'Online Trolls' I keep reading about.

Rotten Tomatoes scraps pre-release user comments in effort to stop trolls

Can anybody really take review sites like rotten tomatoes or IMDB seriously anymore?

haha, well, it's an easy target for trolls these days... female lead and everything

I know you're kidding but I really wanna make it clear that it has nothing to do with that! I DO value political messages in movies, I really loved Black Panther for example, both for the movies and for some of the messages it sent... but Captain Marvel doesn't even have that, it's very light on that aspect and doesn't really goes there or takes any risk. I've slept on it now and I still can't believe how bad Brie Larson was

and yeah please #StopRottenTomatoes2019 it's such a garbage website

 

[peate]

You must be one of these 'Online Trolls' I keep reading about.

Rotten Tomatoes scraps pre-release user comments in effort to stop trolls

Can anybody really take review sites like rotten tomatoes or IMDB seriously anymore?

The IMDB ratings get better with age. They tend to average out pretty well and fall within tolerance levels. I haven't really looked at RT that much to tell. Youtube trailers also help me decide if something is worth a further look. User comments, sometimes laughable, can be useful but I usually ignore them.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

haha, well, it's an easy target for trolls these days... female lead and everything

I know you're kidding but I really wanna make it clear that it has nothing to do with that! I DO value political messages in movies, I really loved Black Panther for example, both for the movies and for some of the messages it sent... but Captain Marvel doesn't even have that, it's very light on that aspect and doesn't really goes there or takes any risk. I've slept on it now and I still can't believe how bad Brie Larson was

and yeah please #StopRottenTomatoes2019 it's such a garbage website

Brie would tell you her acting wasn't bad, it just wasn't made for you..

 

[ottawa]

The Hateful 8: ★★★★

How many times does Tarentino need to prove he is the greatest director of all time? I had already watched this movie but forgot how great it got during the final hour. Like every one of his movies, there are some small holes like why they didn't just kill John Ruth and Major Marquis Warren at the beginning when they had ample opportunities. Beautifully filmed, but too long.

Dunkirk (2017): ★★★★
Sausage Party (2016): ★★★
Taxi Driver (1976): ★★★★
Prodigy (2018): ★★½
Now You See Me (2014): ★★★
Black Panther (2014): ★★★½
John Wick (2014): ★★★★
Oldboy (2003): ★★★★½
Casino (1995): ★★★★
Django Unchained (2017): ★★★★½
Thor Ragnarok (2017): ★★★★
Power Rangers (2017): ★½
Secret Life of Pets (2016): ★★★
LoTR: The Fellowship of the Ring: ★★★★★ (personal top 10)
LoTR: The Two Towers: ★★★★1/2
LoTR: The Return of the King: ★★★★1/2
An Unexpected Journey (2012): ★★★★
Desolation of Smaug (2013): ★★★½
Battle of the Five Armies (2014): ★★★½
This is the end (2013): ★★★
Here Comes the Boom (2012): ★★
Dirty Grandpa (2016): ★★
The Departed (2006): ★★★★1/2
Secret Window (2004): ★★★
The Big Short (2015): ★★★★
Finding Nemo (2003): ★★★★
Zombieland (2009): ★★★1/2
The Cabin in the Woods (2011): ★★★1/2
Inside Llewyn Davis (2013): ★★★★
Gangs of New York (2002): ★★★★
Inbetweeners (2011): ★★★
Inbetweeners 2 (2014): ★★★
X-men: First Class (2011): ★★★1/2

 

[Kriss E]

I just wouldn't expect a balanced and nuanced doc from people accusing him of what they're accusing him of.

I said I'm not really invested in it. I definitely don't know the ins and outs of all this in the way you do. You could be right.

But all that being said, if you admit that MJ wasn't right in the head then don't you think that having kids sleep in the same bed as him could be a form of abuse? I mean getting the parent's written consent to do so? Isn't that a crazy amount of alarm bells being sounded? It's pretty much as simple as you think that it's okay that they slept in the same bed or it's not. Was it okay that that happened?

I don't expect the accusers to have a balanced view, they're not the ones making the movie though. The film makers didn't bring anything from the other side so as a flick, it's entirely biased.

Again, I think MJ had mental problems, but sleeping in the same bed is not abuse. It's weird AF, but it ain't criminal. You're not going to be prosecuted for having a kid sleep in your bed. If you do something to that child, well that's different.
I don't think it's okay or normal, but from what the parents said, MJ also acted like a child himself so if he believed that, well it was nothing more than just a sleepover between 2 kids.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I don't expect the accusers to have a balanced view, they're not the ones making the movie though. The film makers didn't bring anything from the other side so as a flick, it's entirely biased.

Again, I think MJ had mental problems, but sleeping in the same bed is not abuse. It's weird AF, but it ain't criminal. You're not going to be prosecuted for having a kid sleep in your bed. If you do something to that child, well that's different.
I don't think it's okay or normal, but from what the parents said, MJ also acted like a child himself so if he believed that, well it was nothing more than just a sleepover between 2 kids.

Well mental/emotional abuse isn't exactly criminal. Doesn't mean it's not abusive.

 

[Kriss E]

Well mental/emotional abuse isn't exactly criminal. Doesn't mean it's not abusive.

And sleeping in the same bed does not mean any kind of abuse occurred.

 

[Pat Riot]

Season 4 of Gomorrah its gonna be a fun watch. First episode airing march 29th. Im really looking forward to watch it. With gomorrah starting in march followed by Game of thrones starting in april, great way to kick off spring.

'Gomorrah' Season 4 Trailer

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

And sleeping in the same bed does not mean any kind of abuse occurred.

would you let your hypothetical or real children sleep in the same bed as someone you've admitted your self isn't right in the head?

 

[Kriss E]

would you let your hypothetical or real children sleep in the same bed as someone you've admitted your self isn't right in the head?

I didn't say it was okay, and no I would never let that happen, but this is not abuse.

 

[Zorba]

Brie Larson hot.
Captain Marvel all sorts of bad. No idea why it’s getting good reviews
Are critics afraid to go after a feminist movie now like they were afraid to go after Black panther

I wanted to leave. My wife made me stay
I shoulda known going in that this was pretty much just a prequel to the avengers and almost Guardians of the Galaxy. I already knew Ronan’s fate
Please no captain marvel 2. After End Game and far from home, marvel neesds to take a long hiatus

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I didn't say it was okay, and no I would never let that happen, but this is not abuse.

why is it not okay and why wouldn't you let it happen?

 

[BehindTheTimes]

The Hateful 8: ★★★★

How many times does Tarentino need to prove he is the greatest director of all time? I had already watched this movie but forgot how great it got during the final hour. Like every one of his movies, there are some small holes like why they didn't just kill John Ruth and Major Marquis Warren at the beginning when they had ample opportunities. Beautifully filmed, but too long.

I thought it was absolutely terrible.

 

[Kriss E]

why is it not okay and why wouldn't you let it happen?

Not sure what it is you're arguing for..I already said it's weird AF. But that ain't what ''abuse'' is.

You're looking at ''sleeping in the same bed'' through your knowledge that MJ is accused of molestation.
If you didn't know any of that and instead viewed him through a big brother-father figure lense, where he cared about those kids in an innocent family way, where they just ate some pizza and watched movies, then there's nothing abusive about it.

Ever watched ''Big Daddy'' with Adam Sandler? Some kid is dropped at a stranger's place and they build a relationship over their time together. Boy sleeps in his bed, they hold hands, and it's all good because we see it's a father-son type of relationship.
Now with MJ, you already have the idea of sexual predation so naturally when you hear ''kid slept in same bed as MJ'' well you don't imagine a simple caring family-like sleepover, you're thinking molestation sleepover.

I think MJ was mentally ill in the sense that we're talking about a person who never had a childhood, a guy that was black and became white, a man with a plastic face, one of the few person to ever live (maybe the only one) to be recognized in any corner of the world. There is no way anybody who went through his life would ever be normal. I'm not thinking mentally ill as in he's a conniving sexual predator.

 

[ottawa]

I thought it was absolutely terrible.

Yeah I was debating between 3.5 instead of 4...but I don't think it was terrible. Why did you hate it?

 

[Kimota]

Brie Larson hot.
Captain Marvel all sorts of bad. No idea why it’s getting good reviews
Are critics afraid to go after a feminist movie now like they were afraid to go after Black panther

I wanted to leave. My wife made me stay
I shoulda known going in that this was pretty much just a prequel to the avengers and almost Guardians of the Galaxy. I already knew Ronan’s fate
Please no captain marvel 2. After End Game and far from home, marvel neesds to take a long hiatus

Anyway after Endgame I'm gonna close the book on the Marvel movies chapter of my life. lol

Evans, Downey and Hemsworth will probably be gone after this movie and have no interest in the others. The interesting Netflix shows have ended too. And so it may as well be over. That goes for every super-hero movies for me(unless they do something really crazy like turn the Thor franchise into a big violent Vikings epic directed by Paul Veroheven....).

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Yeah I was debating between 3.5 instead of 4...but I don't think it was terrible. Why did you hate it?

The typical long boring conversational pieces in this movie that Tarantino has become famous for. The first half of the movie was so boring that nothing happens, lots of talk and literally nothing else. The chatter is silly and childish, not much to like about this film imo.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Brie Larson hot.
Captain Marvel all sorts of bad. No idea why it’s getting good reviews
Are critics afraid to go after a feminist movie now like they were afraid to go after Black panther

I wanted to leave. My wife made me stay
I shoulda known going in that this was pretty much just a prequel to the avengers and almost Guardians of the Galaxy. I already knew Ronan’s fate
Please no captain marvel 2. After End Game and far from home, marvel neesds to take a long hiatus

I don't think Marvel will do that, it's a cash cow right now.

At best they slow down the 'crossovers' like avengers and continue spiderman and some other ones low key.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The typical long boring conversational pieces in this movie that Tarantino has become famous for. The first half of the movie was so boring that nothing happens, lots of talk and literally nothing else. The chatter is silly and childish, not much to like about this film imo.

That's also what kills his movies for me. I don't get all gitty hearing imaginary two bit criminals spout their outdated philosophies, half funny anecdotes and typical outlaw exploits.

Kill Bill was an intellectual wasteland, worst than H8. Most spaghetti westerns are.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Not sure what it is you're arguing for..I already said it's weird AF. But that ain't what ''abuse'' is.

You're looking at ''sleeping in the same bed'' through your knowledge that MJ is accused of molestation.
If you didn't know any of that and instead viewed him through a big brother-father figure lense, where he cared about those kids in an innocent family way, where they just ate some pizza and watched movies, then there's nothing abusive about it.

Ever watched ''Big Daddy'' with Adam Sandler? Some kid is dropped at a stranger's place and they build a relationship over their time together. Boy sleeps in his bed, they hold hands, and it's all good because we see it's a father-son type of relationship.
Now with MJ, you already have the idea of sexual predation so naturally when you hear ''kid slept in same bed as MJ'' well you don't imagine a simple caring family-like sleepover, you're thinking molestation sleepover.

I think MJ was mentally ill in the sense that we're talking about a person who never had a childhood, a guy that was black and became white, a man with a plastic face, one of the few person to ever live (maybe the only one) to be recognized in any corner of the world. There is no way anybody who went through his life would ever be normal. I'm not thinking mentally ill as in he's a conniving sexual predator.

I want to know why you wouldn't let that happen to your children and think it's not okay while simultaneously thinking it can't be abusive. So why wouldn't you let your kids sleep in the same bed as Michael Jackson and why is it not okay?