OT: Let's talk about movies and TV - Part XXII

[ArtPeur]

London is digging up a lot of ground for a rail system and at the same time, uncovering a lot of history, dating back to Roman times. I'm a fan of these types of shows, history fascinates me. BBC usually has good shows, and this is no exception.

I might watch it then. I'm also a fan of History and I even studied it at University. I miss some good history tv shows. All I get is a bunch of dumb Oak Island, Hunting Hitler, etc. Best show I have ever seen (but also makes me very sad) is Apocalypse (1re ou 2e Guerre Mondiale). The vids they found to make that whole documentary is amazing. Seeing Archduke Franz Ferdinand moments before his death while he is just standing there waving at the crowd not knowing that it's his last hour of life... is... is... I don't know... it makes me speechless knowing what happens next...

 

[Mrb1p]

I might watch it then. I'm also a fan of History and I even studied it at University. I miss some good history tv shows. All I get is a bunch of dumb Oak Island, Hunting Hitler, etc. Best show I have ever seen (but also makes me very sad) is Apocalypse (1re ou 2e Guerre Mondiale). The vids they found to make that whole documentary is amazing. Seeing Archduke Franz Ferdinand moments before his death while he is just standing there waving at the crowd not knowing that it's his last hour of life... is... is... I don't know... it makes me speechless knowing what happens next...

I know this isn't movie related but how f***ing incredible are the event that lead to the death of Ferdinand. From the first bomb missing to the wrong turn the driver made to Gavrilo Princip just standing there and seeing history unfold before his eyes through a number of random decisions.

It's probably my "favorite" historical moment. Just for the sheer ridiculousness of the situation.

 

[Kriss E]

My wife has a good point that even if he just had the kids sleep in his bed (which I believe MJ admitted too) that that can be seen as abuse in and of itself.

I don't really think it's that big a leap to think a guy like MJ was molesting these children. I mean the line is razor thin or not even there at all. I haven't seen the doc so I really can't say but from what I'm hearing it's looking pretty indisputable at this point. Could be wrong.

Not sure how sleeping in his bed is seen as abuse, but on that matter, MJ never forced them to do any of that. He had the parents consent. You ever heard a molestor ask the parents of the child if they can sleep in his bed..with him?? That's truly odd.

MJ was messed up in the head, there is no doubt about that. He was not normal. Nothing about him was.

I finished the movie. There's a few things about this flick:
1) It is completely one sided and wants to paint MJ as a predator.
2) It is entirely anecdotal.
3) One of the victim's mom seems overly cheerful when she's discounting stories about the man who allegedly abused her son.
4) Both victims have testified in court before on never having been molested.
5) Both victims tried to sued MJ for millions before but failed.
6) They describe a loving honest relationship with MJ, not a manipulative deceiving one.

When I listen to their stories, I don't hear a man that was conniving and evil, I see a mentally ill person who still sounds like a child. It's as if MJ was a kid in the body of an adult. Not some sexual predator.
And I cannot shake the fact those guys said, under oath, MJ never touched them.


I think we live in a patheticly overly sensitive world right now, where you can just accuse or say anything, people take it at face value.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Not sure how sleeping in his bed is seen as abuse, but on that matter, MJ never forced them to do any of that. He had the parents consent. You ever heard a molestor ask the parents of the child if they can sleep in his bed..with him?? That's truly odd.

MJ was messed up in the head, there is no doubt about that. He was not normal. Nothing about him was.

I finished the movie. There's a few things about this flick:
1) It is completely one sided and wants to paint MJ as a predator.
2) It is entirely anecdotal.
3) One of the victim's mom seems overly cheerful when she's discounting stories about the man who allegedly abused her son.
4) Both victims have testified in court before on never having been molested.
5) Both victims tried to sued MJ for millions before but failed.
6) They describe a loving honest relationship with MJ, not a manipulative deceiving one.

When I listen to their stories, I don't hear a man that was conniving and evil, I see a mentally ill person who still sounds like a child. It's as if MJ was a kid in the body of an adult. Not some sexual predator.
And I cannot shake the fact those guys said, under oath, MJ never touched them.


I think we live in a patheticly overly sensitive world right now, where you can just accuse or say anything, people take it at face value.

I always thought MJ was the victim in all of this. An eccentric man with kid like tendencies, a boat load of cash along with a caring heart and a bit naive, but never a predator. He was the one victimized and the accusations eventually led to his death, a sin imo.

 

[Mrb1p]

Not sure how sleeping in his bed is seen as abuse, but on that matter, MJ never forced them to do any of that. He had the parents consent. You ever heard a molestor ask the parents of the child if they can sleep in his bed..with him?? That's truly odd.

MJ was messed up in the head, there is no doubt about that. He was not normal. Nothing about him was.

I finished the movie. There's a few things about this flick:
1) It is completely one sided and wants to paint MJ as a predator.
2) It is entirely anecdotal.
3) One of the victim's mom seems overly cheerful when she's discounting stories about the man who allegedly abused her son.
4) Both victims have testified in court before on never having been molested.
5) Both victims tried to sued MJ for millions before but failed.
6) They describe a loving honest relationship with MJ, not a manipulative deceiving one.

When I listen to their stories, I don't hear a man that was conniving and evil, I see a mentally ill person who still sounds like a child. It's as if MJ was a kid in the body of an adult. Not some sexual predator.
And I cannot shake the fact those guys said, under oath, MJ never touched them.


I think we live in a patheticly overly sensitive world right now, where you can just accuse or say anything, people take it at face value.

You really don't see anything wrong with all of that ?

 

[ottawa]

The Cabin in the woods: ★★★1/2
Finding Nemo: ★★★★

 

[Kimota]

Umbrella Academy is a good one to watch, I liked it a lot.

Also if you ever listened to Freestyle music ala Stevie B, drooled over Buick Grand Nationals & Iroc Camaro's then Cruise will make you really happy....nice period piece and Emily Ratajkowski is well yeah...

A shame about the fake lips and boobs though

 

[Carey Chant]

A shame about the fake lips and boobs though

Buddy go watch Blurred lines vid again, those lovely maracas are real.

 

[Mrb1p]

A shame about the fake lips and boobs though

Thats 100% her lips, watch pictures of her at 16.

 

[Kriss E]

You really don't see anything wrong with all of that ?

I mean...aside from the fact I wrote the guy was mentally ill and messed up in the head?...

 

[Mrb1p]

I mean...aside from the fact I wrote the guy was mentally ill and messed up in the head?...

Every sexual predator is mentally ill.

 

[Kriss E]

I always thought MJ was the victim in all of this. An eccentric man with kid like tendencies, a boat load of cash along with a caring heart and a bit naive, but never a predator. He was the one victimized and the accusations eventually led to his death, a sin imo.

I feel the same. I don't see how this guy was this conniving evil predatory man.

 

[Kriss E]

Every sexual predator is mentally ill.

Not in the same manner, no.
Those guys have normal lives, they hide that terrible secret, otherwise they're just your normal neighbour.
Not MJ. Even the parents said MJ was like a child. That's not what we hear of your typical sexual predator, as far as I know.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I made the mistake of watching Shameless

Thanks for that one, pretty good so far

 

[Mrb1p]

Thanks for that one, pretty good so far

Fiona Gallagher is right up me alley.

Total piece of work, but god damn shes hot.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Not sure how sleeping in his bed is seen as abuse, but on that matter, MJ never forced them to do any of that. He had the parents consent. You ever heard a molestor ask the parents of the child if they can sleep in his bed..with him?? That's truly odd.

MJ was messed up in the head, there is no doubt about that. He was not normal. Nothing about him was.

I finished the movie. There's a few things about this flick:
1) It is completely one sided and wants to paint MJ as a predator.
2) It is entirely anecdotal.
3) One of the victim's mom seems overly cheerful when she's discounting stories about the man who allegedly abused her son.
4) Both victims have testified in court before on never having been molested.
5) Both victims tried to sued MJ for millions before but failed.
6) They describe a loving honest relationship with MJ, not a manipulative deceiving one.

When I listen to their stories, I don't hear a man that was conniving and evil, I see a mentally ill person who still sounds like a child. It's as if MJ was a kid in the body of an adult. Not some sexual predator.
And I cannot shake the fact those guys said, under oath, MJ never touched them.


I think we live in a patheticly overly sensitive world right now, where you can just accuse or say anything, people take it at face value.

Well I believe there is a grooming phase with these predators. They need to groom the parents to think everything is okay. MJ being MJ his grooming phase needed to be more elaborate. He needed forms and legal consent.

The fact that he asked for their permission shouldn't absolve him of that act being abusive. I think it makes it all the more heinous. Putting the parents in this surreal dilemma. I mean if you think he's mentally ill and sick then you don't think having these kids sleep in the same bed of a man who was sick is abusive even if nothing overtly sexual happened?

Who knows the coercion that was going on with those testimonies from those kids when they were younger. Just imagine his insane legal team these families were up against.

Not too sure if him being child like is necessarily antithetical to someone who'd do these things. Gacy was a clown who worked kids parties. Besides that, his case seems to have very little precedent in known criminal history. I mean this is probably the stuff that would've happened to emperors or something and you could surely imagine they had the means to cover these things up just as MJ did.

Of course this doc is going to be one sided. I don't know if at this stage we need a nuanced, balanced look at a guy where the major players of this documentary are accusing him of child molestation on such a grand and grotesque scale.

I was closer to how you used to think a while ago but it's hard for me to ignore that stuff. Having a bunch of scared kids' testimony who were likely threatened beyond any measure we could possibly imagine as proof doesn't hold much weight with me. I'll watch the doc myself. Maybe I won't believe it. I'm not hugely invested in him being a monster. I was never much a fan when I was younger either so I'm fairly neutral in terms of emotional investment.

 

[peate]

Fiona Gallagher is right up me alley.

Total piece of work, but god damn shes hot.

She's totally gone haywire. Not her best season sadly.
I liked Svetlana, the Russian bartender.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Fiona Gallagher is right up me alley.

Total piece of work, but god damn shes hot.

Totally my type

Karen's mom is scary af

 

[Mrb1p]

Totally my type

Karen's mom is scary af

Whos Karen? Its been so long Ive been done with the show i cant remember. Is it Lips girl?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Whos Karen? Its been so long Ive been done with the show i cant remember. Is it Lips girl?

Yeah

Her mom likes the ole switcheroo.. yikes!

 

[G0bias]

I feel the same. I don't see how this guy was this conniving evil predatory man.

You have alot of cases where offenders don't have the mental capacity or disposition to grasp what they're doing is evil or wrong. They're ill. They'll know from their surroundings but mentally it's not something they can always understand. He could've done those things without any knowledge or intention of hurting them whatsoever.

I don't know if he did those things nor did I follow the case. Just saying dismissing it based on the type of person he is can be really misleading.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Well I believe there is a grooming phase with these predators. They need to groom the parents to think everything is okay. MJ being MJ his grooming phase needed to be more elaborate. He needed forms and legal consent.

The fact that he asked for their permission shouldn't absolve him of that act being abusive. I think it makes it all the more heinous. Putting the parents in this surreal dilemma. I mean if you think he's mentally ill and sick then you don't think having these kids sleep in the same bed of a man who was sick is abusive even if nothing overtly sexual happened?

Who knows the coercion that was going on with those testimonies from those kids when they were younger. Just imagine his insane legal team these families were up against.

Not too sure if him being child like is necessarily antithetical to someone who'd do these things. Gacy was a clown who worked kids parties. Besides that, his case seems to have very little precedent in known criminal history. I mean this is probably the stuff that would've happened to emperors or something and you could surely imagine they had the means to cover these things up just as MJ did.

Of course this doc is going to be one sided. I don't know if at this stage we need a nuanced, balanced look at a guy where the major players of this documentary are accusing him of child molestation on such a grand and grotesque scale.

I was closer to how you used to think a while ago but it's hard for me to ignore that stuff. Having a bunch of scared kids' testimony who were likely threatened beyond any measure we could possibly imagine as proof doesn't hold much weight with me. I'll watch the doc myself. Maybe I won't believe it. I'm not hugely invested in him being a monster. I was never much a fan when I was younger either so I'm fairly neutral in terms of emotional investment.

I followed the case in real time. This documentary is completely one sided and doesn't accurately reflect what happened during that time. I'll take the testimony and real live depictions of events over what they say 20-30 years later.

I stand by my position and this documentary did absolutely nothing to change my view.

 

[habdynasty]

Child molesters are the lowest of the low to me. Sometime the victims take years to tell their story. More victims will come out . Theo Fluery took years before telling his story.

 

[ottawa]

Inside Llewyn Davis: ★★★★

Probably one of the best indie movies I've ever seen...Oscar Isaac and Carie Mulligan were both amazing in it. Movie about a man trying to make it in the music world flying solo. Recommend everyone to watch it.

Dunkirk (2017): ★★★★
Sausage Party (2016): ★★★
Taxi Driver (1976): ★★★★
Prodigy (2018): ★★½
Now You See Me (2014): ★★★
Black Panther (2014): ★★★½
John Wick (2014): ★★★★
Oldboy (2003): ★★★★½
Casino (1995): ★★★★
Django Unchained (2017): ★★★★½
Thor Ragnarok (2017): ★★★★
Power Rangers (2017): ★½
Secret Life of Pets (2016): ★★★
LoTR: The Fellowship of the Ring: ★★★★★ (personal top 10)
LoTR: The Two Towers: ★★★★1/2
LoTR: The Return of the King: ★★★★1/2
An Unexpected Journey (2012): ★★★★
Desolation of Smaug (2013): ★★★½
Battle of the Five Armies (2014): ★★★½
This is the end (2013): ★★★
Here Comes the Boom (2012): ★★
Dirty Grandpa (2016): ★★
The Departed (2006): ★★★★1/2
Secret Window (2004): ★★★
The Big Short (2015): ★★★★
Finding Nemo (2003): ★★★★
Zombieland (2009): ★★★1/2
The Cabin in the Woods (2011): ★★★1/2
Inside Llewyn Davis (2013): ★★★★
Gangs of New York (2002): ★★★★

 

[Kriss E]

You have alot of cases where offenders don't have the mental capacity or disposition to grasp what they're doing is evil or wrong. They're ill. They'll know from their surroundings but mentally it's not something they can always understand. He could've done those things without any knowledge or intention of hurting them whatsoever.

I don't know if he did those things nor did I follow the case. Just saying dismissing it based on the type of person he is can be really misleading.

That's not what they say in the movie. At one point one of the mom says MJ told her he won't hold her kid's hand in public because people are gonna talk and ask questions, the kid also says MJ told him never to say anything otherwise they will both go to jail, so he was aware at least of what appears right or wrong.

I don't think pedophiles have any intent to hurt their victims. They're attracted to children. Rapists are the ones who get a kick out of hurting. That's my understanding.