Let's rank all the competitive leagues

[lakers11]

You just dont get it

I'll just stop now because this can go on forever

See you at the semis, when atleast 2 of the 4 teams will be from SHL

 

[Elvs]

You just dont get it

I'll just stop now because this can go on forever

See you at the semis, when atleast 2 of the 4 teams will be from SHL

Yes, because that would clearly prove that you are right and I am wrong... I certaintly wouldn't be surprised to see 2 SHL teams in the semfinals. It's almost a given that the 4 semfinal teams will consist of teams from the SHL, Liiga and NLA. So obviously one of those leagues is gonna have 2 teams in the semis, that's just math. And with Switzerland only having three teams left in the tourney, chances are good it's gonna be all Sweden and Finland in the semis.

 

[lakers11]

Yes, because that would clearly prove that you are right and I am wrong... I certaintly wouldn't be surprised to see 2 SHL teams in the semfinals. It's almost a given that the 4 semfinal teams will consist of teams from the SHL, Liiga and NLA. So obviously one of those leagues is gonna have 2 teams in the semis, that's just math. And with Switzerland only having three teams left in the tourney, chances are good it's gonna be all Sweden and Finland in the semis.

Oh then see you next CHL where atleast 2 of the 4 remaining will be from SHL again?

looks like only 2 of 6 NLA teams are going to playoffs. Maybe we should give them 12 spots, maybe then they will fare better

 

[Elvs]

Having two teams in the semifinals is still just one team more than the other leagues. I don't think that makes a league clear cut better than the others, let alone "dominating". I look at the rosters of the teams in the AHL, Liiga and the NLA and my opininon is that they would be competitive if they played in the SHL. Competitive doesn't mean they nessecarely would win the league, it would just mean they would belong. But I guess we just have to agree to disagree...

 

[Jablkon]

Having two teams in the semifinals is still just one team more than the other leagues. I don't think that makes a league clear cut better than the others, let alone "dominating". I look at the rosters of the teams in the AHL, Liiga and the NLA and my opininon is that they would be competitive if they played in the SHL. Competitive doesn't mean they nessecarely would win the league, it would just mean they would belong. But I guess we just have to agree to disagree...

You obviously try to relativize what is obvious from games. Ok, fact that each league in CHL still represent different style of hockey (thats due to lack of int. competition in past IMO) does not make it easy. And its true that CHL should help teams from weaker leagues to adapt to that higher standard. So we will not see such a SHL teams performance for ever.

You dont have to check results, but when you watch SHL teams you have to admit that they are generally more complex and "mature" teams than others no matter whats the score is. You simply see some aspects of the game which you dont see in other teams.

Btw I dont rememember anybody from Switzerland saying that their league is on the SHL level..... That would be far from reality......

 

[Jakk123]

I don't think you'd find many Finns who place Liiga above SHL. Some might make a case for being ahead of NLA, but a lot depends on the factors used.

I'm personally in the "too close to call" faction too. SHL has maybe the best depth out of them. Because they can pay competitive salaries to their stars, NLA likely has the best handful of individual players. Liiga teams may actually have the best coaching and training of the bunch, which makes them more competitive than you'd usually figure. After all, even the KHL likes to take advantage of Finnish know-how, not to mention our NT that consistently overachieves.

I'd say that rather than trying to rank the teams one by one, maybe we should place them in tiers.

Tier 1 - NHL. Clear number one, no question.
Tier 2 - KHL. Similarly clear number two for now.
Tier 3 - SHL - AHL - Liiga - NLA. Four leagues that are too close to call.
Tier 4 - Czech Extraliga - DEL - VHL - EBEL... etc. Not exactly sure which and how many leagues should be on this tier (and subsequent lower tiers), feel free to debate.

I personally think that Czech Extraliga should be in tier 3.

 

[lakers11]

"too close to call" makes no sense

Player by player the SHL kills Liiga and extraliga. NLA has the biggest stars, but other than the stars, the average players are worse than the same of SHL. In CHL the biggest surprise would be seeing no SHL teams in the final. That says something

I'm pretty confident that the real top 10 list is this:

1. NHL
2. KHL
3. SHL
4. Liiga
5. NLA
6. Extraliga
7. DEL
8. EBEL
9. Allsvenskan
10. Extraliga slovakia

I have little knowledge of AHL so I'll leave it out. But there's no money in that league, its more of a get go place for the players to move to the other leagues

 

[Mattilaus]

"too close to call" makes no sense

Player by player the SHL kills Liiga and extraliga. NLA has the biggest stars, but other than the stars, the average players are worse than the same of SHL. In CHL the biggest surprise would be seeing no SHL teams in the final. That says something

I'm pretty confident that the real top 10 list is this:

1. NHL
2. KHL
3. SHL
4. Liiga
5. NLA
6. Extraliga
7. DEL
8. EBEL
9. Allsvenskan
10. Extraliga slovakia

I have little knowledge of AHL so I'll leave it out. But there's no money in that league, its more of a get go place for the players to move to the other leagues

http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?11337-Team-budgets-around-the-world!

http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/10/20/ahl-salaries-2012-13-opening-night-rosters

Numbers are a bit old but AHL team budgets appear to be, on average, higher than Extraliga Slovakia......so how is there no money in the AHL?

Edit: just to clarify I am actually asking in case I missed something

 

[lakers11]

Isn't there a salary cap? The best payed players get 110k usd a season

which is nothing in SHL

Edit: Apparently there is no cap. I am legit surprised.

But most players seem to make upto 105k usd a season, with a handful of players earning more than that.

Last time Ryan Lasch played in AHL, he earned 300k.....I wonder how much Frölunda pays him

edit 2: my bad, Ryan Lasch earned 200k

edit 3: "As of July 23, 2014, according to CapGeek.com, the highest paid AHL Salary (on a 2-way contract) is Chris Butler (STL) and Kyle Cumiskey (CHI) with $400,000."

lol, the former Modo player was the best payed ahl player last season.

 

[Falling Snow]

the best thing for CHL would be that 4 diffrent leauges teams would be at semi final.
btw. i think the Norway Get Ligaen is underrated .

 

[Jablkon]

"too close to call" makes no sense

Player by player the SHL kills Liiga and extraliga. NLA has the biggest stars, but other than the stars, the average players are worse than the same of SHL. In CHL the biggest surprise would be seeing no SHL teams in the final. That says something

I'm pretty confident that the real top 10 list is this:

1. NHL
2. KHL
3. SHL
4. Liiga
5. NLA
6. Extraliga
7. DEL
8. EBEL
9. Allsvenskan
10. Extraliga slovakia

I have little knowledge of AHL so I'll leave it out. But there's no money in that league, its more of a get go place for the players to move to the other leagues

Thats how most people see it. AHL is hard to compare. Its a completely different hockey with motivation and competitvness which you can never see anywhere in Europe.

 

[FiLe]

I personally think that Czech Extraliga should be in tier 3.

The consensus seems to be that it's not a league comparable to SHL/NLA/Liiga. However, I'm willing to admit that maybe it is in too lowly of a company with the rest of the "tier 4" examples I used.

 

[Elvs]

You obviously try to relativize what is obvious from games. Ok, fact that each league in CHL still represent different style of hockey (thats due to lack of int. competition in past IMO) does not make it easy. And its true that CHL should help teams from weaker leagues to adapt to that higher standard. So we will not see such a SHL teams performance for ever.

You dont have to check results, but when you watch SHL teams you have to admit that they are generally more complex and "mature" teams than others no matter whats the score is. You simply see some aspects of the game which you dont see in other teams.

Btw I dont rememember anybody from Switzerland saying that their league is on the SHL level..... That would be far from reality......

I do belive that SHL teams are well coached and like I've said before, I believe it's possible they train better in the offseason compared to teams from other Euro leagues.

The NLA is where the money in Europe is these days, some good players left the SHL to play there in recent years. Now we are seeing more players go there instead of the KHL, so it's getting stronger.

I look at Bern's roster and they would defenitely fair well in the SHL with proper coaching and training. Cory Conacher, Trevor Smith, Andrew Ebbett, Chuck Kobasew.. These would be good SHL players for sure. On top off that, you can add Simon Bodenmann, Martin Pluss, Timo Helbling and Eric Blum who play for Switzerland's national team. Justin Krueger is a former AHL'er who plays for Germany too. On paper it looks just as good as any Swedish club team.

 

[Jablkon]

I do belive that SHL teams are well coached and like I've said before, I believe it's possible they train better in the offseason compared to teams from other Euro leagues.

The NLA is where the money in Europe is these days, some good players left the SHL to play there in recent years. Now we are seeing more players go there instead of the KHL, so it's getting stronger.

I look at Bern's roster and they would defenitely fair well in the SHL with proper coaching and training. Cory Conacher, Trevor Smith, Andrew Ebbett, Chuck Kobasew.. These would be good SHL players for sure. On top off that, you can add Simon Bodenmann, Martin Pluss, Timo Helbling and Eric Blum who play for Switzerland's national team. Justin Krueger is a former AHL'er who plays for Germany too. On paper it looks just as good as any Swedish club team.

Switzerland always prefers NA hockey more than russian or european one + when you add style of living you have reason for so many NA players being there. SHL obviously does not need them so much because of their own depth. We dont have any better comparison than CHL and Bern has room to prove opposite. I personally dont care whether somebody ranks DEL better than Czech league as far we still produce at least KHL/AHL players. But it would be very pathetic from me to ignore CHL results and saying that everything is OK. SHL teams and Liiga teams so far confirm their reputation. IF NLA should be on the same level they should have similar results. Ok, still different style of hockey plays a role and maybe we are in a situation as in soccer where Premier league is considered as a best euro league no matter how great teams are BArca and Real and how incredibly skilled are spain players...

 

[doug88]

I do belive that SHL teams are well coached and like I've said before, I believe it's possible they train better in the offseason compared to teams from other Euro leagues.

The NLA is where the money in Europe is these days, some good players left the SHL to play there in recent years. Now we are seeing more players go there instead of the KHL, so it's getting stronger.

I look at Bern's roster and they would defenitely fair well in the SHL with proper coaching and training. Cory Conacher, Trevor Smith, Andrew Ebbett, Chuck Kobasew.. These would be good SHL players for sure. On top off that, you can add Simon Bodenmann, Martin Pluss, Timo Helbling and Eric Blum who play for Switzerland's national team. Justin Krueger is a former AHL'er who plays for Germany too. On paper it looks just as good as any Swedish club team.

Bern has the biggest budget in Switzerland with a bit more than 50mio Swiss Francs. Whereas the average budget in the NLA would be around 15-20mio, so that's why Bern can attract great players from NA. But that doesn't do everything as they still struggle in Switzerland and they don't make the playoffs every year.

 

[SCBdude]

Bern has the biggest budget in Switzerland with a bit more than 50mio Swiss Francs. Whereas the average budget in the NLA would be around 15-20mio, so that's why Bern can attract great players from NA. But that doesn't do everything as they still struggle in Switzerland and they don't make the playoffs every year.

ZSC can spend at least the same amount of money as Bern and Lugano has no budget at all, they'll throw 500k at anyone that can skate.

 

[lakers11]

ZSC can spend at least the same amount of money as Bern and Lugano has no budget at all, they'll throw 500k at anyone that can skate.

So Bern and ZSC has a budget of 50 million euros? Same as a NHL team? Add the difference in taxes and its better than the NHL teams

Yeah right. Where are the Anze kopitar, sedins, ovechkin? Where are the world star players? You know, since you can afford them......

 

[rimpirate]

So Bern and ZSC has a budget of 50 million euros? Same as a NHL team? Add the difference in taxes and its better than the NHL teams

Yeah right. Where are the Anze kopitar, sedins, ovechkin? Where are the world star players? You know, since you can afford them......

While the SCB has a budget of ~50MCHF, it includes several restaurants. The sports side of the SCB actually has a much lower budget.

 

[doug88]

While the SCB has a budget of ~50MCHF, it includes several restaurants. The sports side of the SCB actually has a much lower budget.

Ya, not all their money goes into paying players and coaches. They're a huge business in Switzerland and they make profit every season.

 

[albator71]

Now my turn))

i will rank my top 5 Euro leagues only and im excluding the KHL off my list ))

#1 SHL

#2 NLA

#3 LIIGA

#4 CZE EXTRALIGA

#5 DEL

 

[Jablkon]

Ya, not all their money goes into paying players and coaches. They're a huge business in Switzerland and they make profit every season.

Does the budget include youth programm? It seems that 50 mils include evrything. If they are on plus side, its pretty immpressive...

 

[lakers11]

While the SCB has a budget of ~50MCHF, it includes several restaurants. The sports side of the SCB actually has a much lower budget.

oh lol

now that makes sense. So what is the Player budget? Last season Växjö lakers had a (player) budget of 4,6 million euros and we made a 1,5 million profit

 

[rimpirate]

oh lol

now that makes sense. So what is the Player budget? Last season Växjö lakers had a (player) budget of 4,6 million euros and we made a 1,5 million profit

From what I could gather, they spent 13.1M CHF on salaries, albeit including employees other than the players. Still, they have oodles of money to throw around.

 

[holyprime]

Evaluating the european leagues using the CHL is a bit pointless imho, as it's just a gimmick tourney some teams use for pre-season while others take it more seriously.

One of the NLA-represantatives in this "Champions League" had to play its way out of relegation last year, for instance (Fribourg).


Anyway, here's my take:
1. NHL
2. KHL
3. SHL
4. NLA/Liiga (about on par imho, depends on signings every year)
6. AHL
7. Extraliga/DEL
9. EBEL
10. Allsvenskan
11. VHL
12. ECHL
13. Get-Ligaen (trending upwards tough)
14. NLB
15. Mestis
16. EIHL
17. Ligue Magnus
18. All those leagues i forgot in my ignorance

I actually have no clue about the ECHL, i placed it where i'd expect them just from reputation. Also left the NA amateur/junior leagues out, as they are merely for development, which makes it almost impossible to compare.

 

[holyprime]

Does the budget include youth programm? It seems that 50 mils include evrything. If they are on plus side, its pretty immpressive...

It helps if you have the most spectators in europe for the 14th time in a row, and can make a profit with the catering for all these people.

50 Mio isnt the budget though, but the total revenue for the entire SCB Eishockey AG. The team has about 20 Mio, for which around 3/5 is used on player salaries.

But yeah, you won't find a single fan of another NLA team that isn't jealous of them and their financial abilities. I know i am