Let's rank all the competitive leagues

[Jablkon]

But again, didn't CHL 2008 prove that Money+KHL+only best teams playing= success

Group stage average 08/09 for the swedish teams=

HV71=6000 avg attendance (it would've been fullhouse if they werent already eliminated before the final home game, meaning 6900 avg)

Linköping= 7400 avg attendance

CHL 15/16 group stage average:

HV71=2209
Linköping=2881

Pretty huge difference.

Last years group stages were pretty BS. As 1st and only the best 2nds were going through. Meaning groups with, for example, sheffield steelers in it pretty much guaranteed free 6 points+ racking up the goal difference. Pretty different from the Lakers group, aye. One of the toughest groups and needing to win 5 of 6 to go through. Which is one of the reasons only the best teams should play, no free cards. Another is, teams like Djurgården, fighting last year to avoid playoffs to SHL gotting free ticket to CHL. Yet we needed to reach atleast semi finals to get a spot

I followed Sparta Prague after the group stages but their journey ended pretty quickly XD

Also saw the final between Luleå-Frölunda, watching Frölunda getting robbed

I forgot it even existed in 2008 If I got it clear they struggled to find permanent sponsorship and also to find balance between NHL a russian interests (for the future). Thats why it lasted just one year. In the nutshell too ambitious projects are hardly to survive in european hockey present environment. That was probably the reason why clubs established this league basically without IIHF. I got your point with attendance. I bet money is the reason for so many DEL teams, maybe czech teams and also UK teams. Its not ideal but I wouldnt switch it for any more attractive format which would heavily rely upon Gazprom. This is just a lottery which would last maximally two years again. to find another big sponzor is obviously impossible...

Honestly I do think that swedish teams being so much ahead is bigger issue than those underdogs. I dont know whether UK teams can improve, but when norwegian teams are able to kick out Geneve or Kalpa, I am quite optimistic....

Also needed to be said that hockey map changed compare to 2008. NLA is now considered as 3rd best euro league (without KHL).But swiss teams obviously generally havent matched fin/swe level yet (as you ilustrated on this year Fribourg, Zug, Bern performance) and czech league declined meanwhile to level that somebody consider it lower than DEL. That being said the average attendence around 2500 in Sweden is pretty understandable. All we can do is hoping for improvement from others...

1/16 will show a lot.....

 

[torero]

You mean there's an "ON" switch for SC Bern, by pressing this they'd easily beat Linköping and Hifk? Or with Fribourg-Gotteron easily beating Luleå and Lukko, sending one of them out. Interesting, but somehow I doubt it.

If you've seen Djurgården-ZUG, you could tell that both of the teams really tried to win the match. ZUG just wasn't good enough

CHL=SHL including Kärpät

the other leagues are more than welcome to prove me wrong

About the NLA teams, i saw that Bern, my team, and all to my disgust ... let's be clear, didn't even play their goalie Marco Burer ....

Then you can try to win all you want, but if it is your 3rd game of the year ... do not expect too much except of good hearth !!

Whatever i was very disapointed and they should make something about it. This attitude is a disgrace for Swiss hockey.

 

[doug88]

About the NLA teams, i saw that Bern, my team, and all to my disgust ... let's be clear, didn't even play their goalie Marco Burer ....

Then you can try to win all you want, but if it is your 3rd game of the year ... do not expect too much except of good hearth !!

Whatever i was very disapointed and they should make something about it. This attitude is a disgrace for Swiss hockey.

They should start the CHL at some point in October, then you'll see the real Bern. Even though they aren't that good nowadays..

 

[The Noot]

About the NLA teams, i saw that Bern, my team, and all to my disgust ... let's be clear, didn't even play their goalie Marco Burer ....

Then you can try to win all you want, but if it is your 3rd game of the year ... do not expect too much except of good hearth !!

Whatever i was very disapointed and they should make something about it. This attitude is a disgrace for Swiss hockey.

In the end, the Swiss teams can only blame themselves for their cocky attitudes.

They have a lot to prove (a lot more than the Swedish teams and the Finnish teams), but they are acting as if they are too good for this competition by sitting core players and starting goalies for CHL games.

It's a disgrace, really.

 

[Lataba76]

Why? The swiss hockey was never good as scandinavien like Sweden and Finland. For me are the results in CHL is a not surprise
It give no reason that shy the swiss hockey teams to be arrogant.
For me is the SHL too strong for NLA.

 

[The Noot]

Why? The swiss hockey was never good as scandinavien like Sweden and Finland. For me are the results in CHL is a not surprise
It give no reason that shy the swiss hockey teams to be arrogant.
For me is the SHL too strong for NLA.

Which is why I said they have a lot to prove. They have high end players and a lot of money combined with a financially potent youth system, but in real games the Swiss teams almost always fell short so far. So they should be extra motivated to show their (monetary) worth.

But what are they doing? Playing their backups against strong opponents and sitting core players so they don't get hurt. That's what I mean! They're either not giving a flying **** about the CHL or they believe that they can get anywhere with their B team. Either way, it's just a shame.

It's incredibly frustrating for us fans. I mean, it's not like we say that our teams would win the CHL regularly. That's definitely not the case.
But it would be nice if they at least took the tournament seriously. Because discussions like this are not fun.

In the end, we can't do much other than agreeing with you. Yes, the Swiss teams are performing worse than the northern clubs. Even if (emphasis on IF) it's mainly because they're nearly icing a B team, all we can do is pointing at the 2009 Victoria Cup, and that has gotten old by now. In the new CHL, the NLA was outclassed and they don't seem overly motivated to change that. Which is just frustrating.

 

[lakers11]

I'm sorry, but which clubs were playing with their B players and not letting their best play?

 

[Lataba76]

Which is why I said they have a lot to prove. They have high end players and a lot of money combined with a financially potent youth system, but in real games the Swiss teams almost always fell short so far. So they should be extra motivated to show their (monetary) worth.

But what are they doing? Playing their backups against strong opponents and sitting core players so they don't get hurt. That's what I mean! They're either not giving a flying **** about the CHL or they believe that they can get anywhere with their B team. Either way, it's just a shame.

It's incredibly frustrating for us fans. I mean, it's not like we say that our teams would win the CHL regularly. That's definitely not the case.
But it would be nice if they at least took the tournament seriously. Because discussions like this are not fun.

In the end, we can't do much other than agreeing with you. Yes, the Swiss teams are performing worse than the northern clubs. Even if (emphasis on IF) it's mainly because they're nearly icing a B team, all we can do is pointing at the 2009 Victoria Cup, and that has gotten old by now. In the new CHL, the NLA was outclassed and they don't seem overly motivated to change that. Which is just frustrating.

Yes but the Victoria Cup is not the measure! The NHL-Teams are not in full Power. This was a one win from Zürich. I think that much scandinavien Teams hasn t motivation for CHL too. They have more and better talents. They want to play in NHL and not in CHL . Remember 66 Swedes and 29 Finns are in NHL. Only 10 swiss player in this league. You see swiss hockey is not talented enough. The NLA is overrated. Why? They have too much money!

 

[Ryker]

From what I have seen, the top 10 Men's hockey leagues in the world:

1. NHL
2. KHL
3. AHL - (developmental league so quality varies but overall I have seen AHL players be able to transition into any league world in the world much easier than visa-versa)
4. Elitserien
5. Czech Extraliga (underrated league especially with Lev Praha gone)
6. LIIGA (With Jokerit leaving for KHL, I see NLA surpassing LIIGA in a few years)
7. NLA
8. DEL
9. Slovak Extraliga
10. ECHL

Oh, come on, no way can you place the Czech Extraliga above Liiga and NLA.

 

[Jablkon]

Which is why I said they have a lot to prove. They have high end players and a lot of money combined with a financially potent youth system, but in real games the Swiss teams almost always fell short so far. So they should be extra motivated to show their (monetary) worth.

But what are they doing? Playing their backups against strong opponents and sitting core players so they don't get hurt. That's what I mean! They're either not giving a flying **** about the CHL or they believe that they can get anywhere with their B team. Either way, it's just a shame.

It's incredibly frustrating for us fans. I mean, it's not like we say that our teams would win the CHL regularly. That's definitely not the case.
But it would be nice if they at least took the tournament seriously. Because discussions like this are not fun.

In the end, we can't do much other than agreeing with you. Yes, the Swiss teams are performing worse than the northern clubs. Even if (emphasis on IF) it's mainly because they're nearly icing a B team, all we can do is pointing at the 2009 Victoria Cup, and that has gotten old by now. In the new CHL, the NLA was outclassed and they don't seem overly motivated to change that. Which is just frustrating.

Then noone from teams should complain about attendence etc. I bet most of the swiss team are permanent CHL teams so its a complete stupidity to undermine your own project in that way. They must have known before they set up the league that those CHL matches are not easy.

I dont follow swiss rosters but it seemed to me that at least Geneve played in full strenght...

There are still concerns from clubs how players handle this amount of matches during the season...If they can handle it in NHL why it shouldnt work in Europe??

 

[lakers11]

Then noone from teams should complain about attendence etc. I bet most of the swiss team are permanent CHL teams so its a complete stupidity to undermine your own project in that way. They must have known before they set up the league that those CHL matches are not easy.

I dont follow swiss rosters but it seemed to me that at least Geneve played in full strenght...

There are still concerns from clubs how players handle this amount of matches during the season...If they can handle it in NHL why it shouldnt work in Europe??

Not sure why he said that. I've followed Swiss teams, mainly of those that played against SHL opponents. ZUG and Bern played with full strenght

The only team I know which didn't was Davos, but that was due to injuries.

 

[holyprime]

You did not write it directly but I reckon we talking here mostly about swiss teams. Well at least there are some "founding" permanent CHL teams whose attitude should be undisputed. Why would they invest money into it?

I'm a bit late but no, i'm not talking about swiss teams in particular, i just happen to think rating entire leagues on the performance of a few in a european tournament isn't a good way, especially if some display a rather lackluster performance. There are other - imho more important - factors to account for as well (like quality of competition, public interest, sustainability (budgets, imports vs youth programs), etc).

I was only using the NLA teams as an example as its the league im most familiar with, maybe there are teams participating that fought relegation from the extraliga (or another league) as well, i just don't know about that.

 

[doug88]

Yes but the Victoria Cup is not the measure! The NHL-Teams are not in full Power. This was a one win from Zürich. I think that much scandinavien Teams hasn t motivation for CHL too. They have more and better talents. They want to play in NHL and not in CHL . Remember 66 Swedes and 29 Finns are in NHL. Only 10 swiss player in this league. You see swiss hockey is not talented enough. The NLA is overrated. Why? They have too much money!

You're talking nonsense buddy. The NLA isn't overrated at all. You can't judge the NLA by how many Swiss players play in the NHL.. There are more swedish players in the NHL than Russians yet the KHL is way better than the Swedish league.

 

[Jablkon]

Not sure why he said that. I've followed Swiss teams, mainly of those that played against SHL opponents. ZUG and Bern played with full strenght

The only team I know which didn't was Davos, but that was due to injuries.

And Davos advanced pretty easily....So it seems that most teams are motivated well even in soccer champions league top teams have to be in full strength except they already secured playoff. What make me confused are some contrary statements from clubs. For example Liberec coach said that CHL playoff way should not have any impact on their extraliga perfomance in later stage. Litvinov coach said they wanna win 1/16, however it will depend on injuries and their extraliga performance. I still dont believe that well trained guys can not handle those two paralel leagues... last two czech champions are basically small regional clubs with budget around 3,7 mil Eur. Zlin didnt cover this fact iand got smashed by Djurgarden away leaving best players at home, Litvinov attitude towards CHL is very proffessional. Still I ahve a bitter taste that message between lines, and this is what we talking about here, is that it is hard to battle on two fronts....I just dont get it...

 

[Lataba76]

You're talking nonsense buddy. The NLA isn't overrated at all. You can't judge the NLA by how many Swiss players play in the NHL.. There are more swedish players in the NHL than Russians yet the KHL is way better than the Swedish league.

Yes of course! But why is the SHL and LIIGA better than NLA? Despite the big bloodletting for this league. 66 swedes plays in NHL 26 in KHL! 29 Finns in NHL 44 in KHL. This players are to miss in this leagues(SHL and LIIGA).
Despite of this bloodletting is the SHL and LIIGA better than NLA.

 

[doug88]

Yes of course! But why is the SHL and LIIGA better than NLA? Despite the big bloodletting for this league. 66 swedes plays in NHL 26 in KHL! 29 Finns in NHL 44 in KHL. This players are to miss in this leagues(SHL and LIIGA).
Despite of this bloodletting is the SHL and LIIGA better than NLA.

Is that a question? Because ya, the SHL is better than the NLA, no doubt about that. However, I don't think the Liiga is better, I'm not really impressed by this league TBH.

 

[Lataba76]

Is that a question? Because ya, the SHL is better than the NLA, no doubt about that. However, I don't think the Liiga is better, I'm not really impressed by this league TBH.

Look the results in CHL(last Season and this Season). And the last 20 Years European-Cup History.

 

[Jablkon]

Finally some interesting staff from Czech extraliga.

Best month salaries in extraliga. Source: www.isport.cz. 1EUR - 27 CZK. It might include bonuses.

18500 EUR + (222 000 per year)

Klesla, KlepiÅ¡, Irgl (all from Třinec)

18500 EUR

Bednář (Hradec Králové)

16700 EUR

Polanský, Adamský (both Třinec), Sýkora (Pardubice)

14800 EUR

Tomáš Kaberle (Brno), Svačina (Třinec), MArtin Å evc (Liberec)

13000 EUR

Netík, PÖpperle, Pech (all Sparta), Hübl, LUkeÅ¡ (Litvinov), Čáslava, Rolinek (Pardubice), Birner, Řepík (Liberec), Hamerlík (třinec), Kadlec (Plzeň)

11100 EUR

Ton (Brno), Vondrka (Chomutov), Bartek (Karlovy Vary), Jaroslav Hlinka (SParta), Kreps, Plihal, Hrabal, Hrna (all from Třinec), Rostislav Olesz (Vitkovice), Marcel Hossa (Plzen)

Any source from other league?

 

[holyprime]

Look the results in CHL(last Season and this Season). And the last 20 Years European-Cup History.

So if the ZSC or Davos wins the CHL this year, it's official that the NLA is the 2nd best european league?

The EHL was dominated by russian teams (plus a finnish and austrian winner), just like the champions cup, the first iteration of the CHL was won by a swiss team (against a russian team), and now last year a swedish team won it (without any russian team participating). Cleary, it shows the domination of the SHL/Liiga over other european leagues, especially as until recently it was reserved for the league champions and sometimes regular season winner only

 

[holyprime]

Any source from other league?

Auston Matthews reportedly makes 400k a year, tried to figure out if its in SFR or EUR but it's not much of a difference nowadays anyway. Unfortunately, salaries aren't made public in the NLA, but this should be a good example for a foreign or very good swiss player. Stars will get even more (Brunner for example is rumored to get up to 1 Mio).

I actually expected the extraliga to have higher salaries.

 

[Jablkon]

Auston Matthews reportedly makes 400k a year, tried to figure out if its in SFR or EUR but it's not much of a difference nowadays anyway. Unfortunately, salaries aren't made public in the NLA, but this should be a good example for a foreign or very good swiss player. Stars will get even more (Brunner for example is rumored to get up to 1 Mio).

I actually expected the extraliga to have higher salaries.

This was also estimation, but confirmed by interim sources. Matthews salary is what czech category 18500 + EUR can reach maximally with all bonuses etc. And this category is only about three players from Trinec whose budget is uncomparable to other teams...

Thats pretty huge difference Good for us that all swiss players stay at home otherwise there would remain nobody in czech league I actually thought that it could be similar to northern leagues when Ryan Glenn or Ari Valinn went to play for Sparta

I am depressed now

 

[Ciccarelli]

Top guys in Liiga make 300-400k€ per season.

 

[Ciccarelli]

I actually thought that it could be similar to northern leagues when Ryan Glenn or Ari Valinn went to play for Sparta

I am depressed now

Ari Vallin and Ryan Glenn aren't really even close to being top guys in SHL/Liiga, Glenn has had some decent numbers but nobody likes him. He is a pylon.

Edit. guys like Birner and Repik are far more bigger "steals" any Liiga team would've had them. Although I don't know if one can count them as steals since the guys just returned to their home country. Quality players, still.

 

[Jablkon]

Ari Vallin and Ryan Glenn aren't really even close to being top guys in SHL/Liiga, Glenn has had some decent numbers but nobody likes him. He is a pylon.

Edit. guys like Birner and Repik are far more bigger "steals" any Liiga team would've had them. Although I don't know if one can count them as steals since the guys just returned to their home country. Quality players, still.

i did not mean they are top guys. i dont know Glen and Vallin seemed to me as average upper average plyer, he was older though...i just ment that if They came here the sallary gap should not be that big. 300,400k is much closer to top extraliga wage than NLA. Repik and Birners return does not have any relation to their possible decline....i also did not mean that all teams would fight for czech players, it also works other way around. So I believe that a lot of agents would find a spot for their players in NLA if there was any room....

edit: 300, 400 k is not that close but not that distinctly far as the difference between CZ and NLA

 

[Lataba76]

So if the ZSC or Davos wins the CHL this year, it's official that the NLA is the 2nd best european league?

The EHL was dominated by russian teams (plus a finnish and austrian winner), just like the champions cup, the first iteration of the CHL was won by a swiss team (against a russian team), and now last year a swedish team won it (without any russian team participating). Cleary, it shows the domination of the SHL/Liiga over other european leagues, especially as until recently it was reserved for the league champions and sometimes regular season winner only

In the 90 s the dominating leagues was Russia and Finland. 00ers Championscup 2005-2008 Russia and Finland.
Only 2008/09 a swiss Team.
Cup-Winners/Titles since 1990: Russia: 6x(Considered that KHL is not in CHL) Finland 5x Sweden: 4x Swizerland 1x
And now the SHL dominating and than follow the LIIGA.