Blue Jays Discussion: Let the post-winter-meeting, pre-spring-training baseball withdrawl commence!

[The Nemesis]

I would very much like to pry Will Smith away from the Brewers. He's Super 2 eligible this year, but wouldn't hit full-blown free agency until 2020. Big strikeout lefty who has shown himself to be capable of handling batters of both handedness.

 

[Neil Hamburger]

I would very much like to pry Will Smith away from the Brewers. He's Super 2 eligible this year, but wouldn't hit full-blown free agency until 2020. Big strikeout lefty who has shown himself to be capable of handling batters of both handedness.

Didn't he just have a concussion?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

You seriously just posted this Joe?

How is this adding value?

I was just being honest. It literally gave me a headache. Nothing against you, compadre.

There's a reason Gallardo remains unsigned. Lots of warts and red flags.

There's very very little difference in the value added he would bring vs Jesse Chavez. (except Chavez was superior in FIP/xFIP/SIERA last year, while not losing a mph on his fastball) For the purpose of this discussion, we'll use him as an analog for Gallardo given their similar fWAR and FIP- marks, and propensity for not going deep in starts.

Jesse Chavez will be, rightly, battling for the #5 spot in the rotation. If everything goes well, he's the swing man. Gallardo would be doing the same. Not worth the draft pick compensation, not worth the investment (**unless the rugged man is traded).

As for the premise of a #1 ahead of Stro: it's not necessary...at all. That's the part that really made my head hurt. It seems to be a common thread among the fanbase, which confuses me.

 

[Discoverer]

Gallardo's weird. The last four years, his value has been roughly similar (slightly above average) yet his K-rate has dropped precipitously each year. He's average at best, and he'll cost a bunch of money and a draft pick. Even if you just want to re-allocate Dickey's money to Gallardo, you have to get value in return for Dickey that's greater than the value of the 25th (ish) overall pick, including a backup catcher to replace Thole.

If you want to move Dickey, that's ok. It's not ideal, but I can see scenarios where it makes sense. Just don't do it in order to sign Gallardo.

 

[tmlfan98]

Regarding Osuna possibly moving to the rotation, I remember reading somewhere that after the season that Osuna had, management sees him as potentially being the Jays long term closer.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Regarding Osuna possibly moving to the rotation, I remember reading somewhere that after the season that Osuna had, management sees him as potentially being the Jays long term closer.

Both incarnations of the management team that have existed since the culmination of the season have stated that both Sanchez and Osuna are starters long term.

 

[Eyedea]

Regarding Osuna possibly moving to the rotation, I remember reading somewhere that after the season that Osuna had, management sees him as potentially being the Jays long term closer.

Could you provide a source? I haven't found anything on it. The closest thing to that was Gibbons at the winter meetings saying he wants Osuna at closer (because of course he would) and they don't really have the luxury to transition him back to a starter (which they kind of don't or didn't) for 2016.

 

[Discoverer]

Could you provide a source? I haven't found anything on it. The closest thing to that was Gibbons at the winter meetings saying he wants Osuna at closer (because of course he would) and they don't really have the luxury to transition him back to a starter (which they kind of don't or didn't) for 2016.

Yeah, I feel like I remember them talking about how much they like them as relievers (probably the Gibbons thing), but I don't see how that in any way suggests they want to keep them in those roles.

Shapiro and Atkins were in charge when Cleveland transitioned Carrasco into the rotation, and they're the ones who kept letting Bauer start. I think they recognize the value of starting pitchers.

 

[zeke]

I think he's referring to the Gibbons comments, although Gibbons didn't even say anything other than about this year....and his opinion has probably changed since getting Storen anyways.

 

[zeke]

Shapiro and Atkins were in charge when Cleveland transitioned Carrasco into the rotation, .

iirc they did the same with guys like Masterson and Westbrook.

 

[Discoverer]

iirc they did the same with guys like Masterson and Westbrook.

They did, good call. Also, new Blue-ish Jay Roberto "Fausto Carmona" Hernandez.

 

[Mach85]

They did, good call. Also, new Blue-ish Jay Roberto "Fausto Carmona" Hernandez.

I always chuckle when I hear that name, because it sounds like such a blatantly obvious fake name - like Max Power.

 

[habamillions]

Wei Yin Chen "closing in" on deal with the fish.

 

[p.l.f.]

5 yrs. poor showalter

 

[habamillions]

5 yrs. poor showalter

They got O'day hahahahaha

 

[Discoverer]

Apparently there's an opt-out after two years. Seems kind of stupid for a team that's not very good to give up a second round pick to sign a mediocre pitcher for possibly two years.

 

[p.l.f.]

Parra - rockies 3/27.5

 

[Epictetus]

No idea how opt-outs are becoming a thing. If the player performs badly, why test the market and give up guaranteed money? If the player performs well, why not test the market and get even more money? It's not even like the player is discounting money to get an opt-out included in his contract -- he is still getting big free agent money. Complete win for the player.

 

[Eyedea]

Apparently there's an opt-out after two years. Seems kind of stupid for a team that's not very good to give up a second round pick to sign a mediocre pitcher for possibly two years.

Looks like the Marlins got a good deal anyways. 6m first year, 14m second year. Gotta show they want to challenge for Stanton, but ultimately they can flip him next offseason for a decent haul. They could also pick up a first if he opts out (by giving him the qualifying offer).

iirc they did the same with guys like Masterson and Westbrook.

They did, good call. Also, new Blue-ish Jay Roberto "Fausto Carmona" Hernandez.

And they moved McAllister to the pen (which lowered his arb value) and Tito used Cody Allen as early as the 4th inning in games.

They also signed Kluber to a 5/38.5m with two team options... Carrasco to a 4/22 with two team options... Gomes to a 6/23 with two team options... Brantley to a 4/25 with a team option... And Kipnis to a 6/52.5 with a team option...

I know Antonetti is technically the guy with regards to those deals but the entire organization is just ahead of the game when it comes to pro scouting and future outlook. Those early signings to extend competitiveness is what I want to see with the Jays.

 

[Swervin81]

I would very much like to pry Will Smith away from the Brewers. He's Super 2 eligible this year, but wouldn't hit full-blown free agency until 2020. Big strikeout lefty who has shown himself to be capable of handling batters of both handedness.

I'd get him just for the name

 

[zeke]

Looks like the Marlins got a good deal anyways. 6m first year, 14m second year. Gotta show they want to challenge for Stanton, but ultimately they can flip him next offseason for a decent haul. They could also pick up a first if he opts out (by giving him the qualifying offer).





And they moved McAllister to the pen (which lowered his arb value) and Tito used Cody Allen as early as the 4th inning in games.

They also signed Kluber to a 5/38.5m with two team options... Carrasco to a 4/22 with two team options... Gomes to a 6/23 with two team options... Brantley to a 4/25 with a team option... And Kipnis to a 6/52.5 with a team option...

I know Antonetti is technically the guy with regards to those deals but the entire organization is just ahead of the game when it comes to pro scouting and future outlook. Those early signings to extend competitiveness is what I want to see with the Jays.

Well, true, but I hope we don't have to wait until our prospects are 27/28 until they finally become good mlb SPs, like Kluber and Carrasco.

 

[Eyedea]

Well, true, but I hope we don't have to wait until our prospects are 27/28 until they finally become good mlb SPs, like Kluber and Carrasco.

Carrasco was good the moment he stepped into that org. 2011 he was 24 and a bottom of the rotation starter with breakout potential, but TJ surgery eliminated his 2012 season. The "stuff" didn't exactly come back in 2013 at the major league level but he was still solid in AAA. He broke out the next year on an innings limit, and then 2015 he continued that trend.

Kluber didn't even enter their org until he was 24 and while he struggled with command early on, was still trending in the right direction with his 2012 Hutch-esque season (being 26).

Salazar is 26 and just completed his first full year at the major league level (though first debuting in AAA) and he was absolutely filthy. We saw that same stuff through the two seasons prior as well.

Bauer still kind of sucks but he's just entering his age 25 season.

 

[zeke]

either way, their first legit quality years as SP came at ages 27 and 28.

 

[Eyedea]

either way, their first legit quality years as SP came at ages 27 and 28.

Well we've already seen Stroman and Hutch have legit years as SP. Both entering their age 25 seasons. I don't think the Indians' minor league system is stagnating talent though. We just saw Francisco Lindor come out of nowhere despite being relatively above average in AAA.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Well we've already seen Stroman and Hutch have legit years as SP. Both entering their age 25 seasons.

Funny enough, Hutch is the type of guy the Cleveland front office trades for.