Blue Jays Discussion: Let the post-winter-meeting, pre-spring-training baseball withdrawl commence!

[Cor]

Yeah, I want Cliff Lee too.

 

[Eyedea]

I don't even think he's a darkhorse... I think he's the most likely candidate when he's healthy.

Yeah, my darkhorse is Chris Colabello and his BABIP magic.

 

[Discoverer]

Something I've been wondering about: if you could trade Dickey for a decent reliever and give the other $10 million or so to Lee... do you do it?

 

[as Pure as Evil]

are they're any actual rumors going around beside the rooney one. just curious the closer we get to spring training. alot of big names are still available. few big sluggers some decent pitchers and utility players


dream scenario. we sign Chris Davis 2 year deal. Cliff Lee 2 year deal incentive based(strike outs, Era and wins)

 

[TootooTrain]

Something I've been wondering about: if you could trade Dickey for a decent reliever and give the other $10 million or so to Lee... do you do it?

Just a hunch, Lee will earn more than 10m. Or atleast 10m, with an incentive laden contract.

Little worried about Fister's durability, but could be getting more bang for your buck. Spend the savings on Rodney if able.

 

[dredeye]

Doesn't seem like Dickey rumour has much legs. Rosenthal saying the jays haven't had discussions about moving him yet and are likely disinclined to move the 200 innings their likely to get from him.

 

[Discoverer]

Just a hunch, Lee will earn more than 10m. Or atleast 10m, with an incentive laden contract.

Little worried about Fister's durability, but could be getting more bang for your buck. Spend the savings on Rodney if able.

I would take Lee over Fister and Rodney, easily, if given the option.

 

[cwulf]

Do we know the drafting strategy of the new regime? I'm curious what kind of players they will stock the system with.

 

[TootooTrain]

I would take Lee over Fister and Rodney, easily, if given the option.

Me too. Just displaying another potential avenue.

 

[The Nemesis]

I don't even think he's a darkhorse... I think he's the most likely candidate when he's healthy.

I figured that Darkhorse was probably too strong of a statement, but I wouldn't put it past anyone to say "Pompey has speed and switch-hits, he should be the leadoff guy!"

Honestly, the team is in pretty decent shape now.

1) Travis (2B)
2) Donaldson (3B)
3) Bautista (RF)
4) Encarnacion (DH)
5) Tulowitzki (SS)
6) Martin (C)
7) Smoakabello (1B)
8) Pillar (CF)
9) Pompey (LF)

Bench
1) Goins (IF/PR)
2) Saunders (OF)
3) Colamoak (1B/DH/PH)
4) Thole (C)

Rotation
1) Stroman
2) Dickey
3) Estrada
4/5) 2 of Happ*/Chavez/Hutchison

Pen
1) Whichever of Happ/Chavez/Hutch doesn't make it in the rotation (LR)
2) Competition Spot (Venditte/Schultz/Tepera/Jenkins/Delabar/Biagini/whoever else wants to make a go at it)
3) Loup (MR)*
4) Sanchez (MR)
5) Cecil (SU/High-Lev)*
6) Osuna (SU/High-Lev)
7) Storen (CL)

*LHP

And no, I'm not marking up Venditte. Honestly, I feel that he's best used mostly as a RHP who can bridge through the odd LHB to stay in vs multiple RHBs

 

[Discoverer]

I figured that Darkhorse was probably too strong of a statement, but I wouldn't put it past anyone to say "Pompey has speed and switch-hits, he should be the leadoff guy!"

Honestly, the team is in pretty decent shape now.

1) Travis (2B)
2) Donaldson (3B)
3) Bautista (RF)
4) Encarnacion (DH)
5) Tulowitzki (SS)
6) Martin (C)
7) Smoakabello (1B)
8) Pillar (CF)
9) Pompey (LF)

Bench
1) Goins (IF/PR)
2) Saunders (OF)
3) Colamoak (1B/DH/PH)
4) Thole (C)

Rotation
1) Stroman
2) Dickey
3) Estrada
4/5) 2 of Happ*/Chavez/Hutchison

Pen
1) Whichever of Happ/Chavez/Hutch doesn't make it in the rotation (LR)
2) Competition Spot (Venditte/Schultz/Tepera/Jenkins/Delabar/Biagini/whoever else wants to make a go at it)
3) Loup (MR)*
4) Sanchez (MR)
5) Cecil (SU/High-Lev)*
6) Osuna (SU/High-Lev)
7) Storen (CL)

*LHP

And no, I'm not marking up Venditte. Honestly, I feel that he's best used mostly as a RHP who can bridge through the odd LHB to stay in vs multiple RHBs

I agree almost entirely, with two minor quibbles:

- I don't think Happ will be battling for a spot. I expect he's pretty much locked into the rotation.

- I agree on Venditte's usage, only it's the other way around: he dominates as a LHP vs. lefties.

 

[The Nemesis]

I agree almost entirely, with two minor quibbles:

- I don't think Happ will be battling for a spot. I expect he's pretty much locked into the rotation.

- I agree on Venditte's usage, only it's the other way around: he dominates as a LHP vs. lefties.

1) fair enough

2) Whoops, you're right. I actually had it right originally just from memory. Then I went to fangraphs, looked at the splits, interpreted them backwards for some reason and re-wrote that comment to be wrong.

 

[Canada4Gold]

are they're any actual rumors going around beside the rooney one. just curious the closer we get to spring training. alot of big names are still available. few big sluggers some decent pitchers and utility players


dream scenario. we sign Chris Davis 2 year deal. Cliff Lee 2 year deal incentive based(strike outs, Era and wins)

yep, that sounds like a dream. The only 2 year deal Chris Davis would be signing would be a 2 year 120 million dollar deal and that's obviously not happening. He's not going to give up his big payday.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Doesn't seem like Dickey rumour has much legs. Rosenthal saying the jays haven't had discussions about moving him yet and are likely disinclined to move the 200 innings their likely to get from him.

Like it or not, Dickey is probably our most reliable pitcher. We really cannot afford to deal him and it's not like he's making alot of money. He was excellent in the second half as well.

 

[hockeywiz542]

why the blue jays needed storen

the only problem with the blue jays’ dizzying series of trades last july was that it cost them nine young pitchers, including highly regarded right-hander jeff hoffman and lefty daniel norris. The team’s remaining pitching prospects are not close to the majors, and the triple-a rotation next season likely will be filled with major-league leftovers and minor-league free agents.

Building depth, then, is critical, and the jays’ acquisition of reliever drew storen from the nationals for outfielder ben revere on friday night increases the team’s options, particularly with right-hander aaron sanchez.

the jays’ depth chart currently includes six starters -- righties marcus stroman, marco estrada, r.a. Dickey, jesse chavez and drew hutchison, plus lefty j.a. Happ. The addition of storen could enable the jays to again look at sanchez in the rotation, where he could become their version of danny salazar. Or, sanchez could remain in the bullpen, forming a powerful late-inning quartet with storen, brett cecil and roberto osuna.

The trade of revere deprived the jays of a leadoff man, as well as an outfielder who helped fortify their defense after the nonwaiver deadline. Second baseman devon travis could hit at the top of the order once he returns from shoulder surgery, perhaps in may. Until then, the jays simply will need to piece the spot together -- and if the rest of their offense is producing at its usual high level, the leadoff question will be less of an issue.

reports surfaced saturday that the blue jays next could trade dickey, but the team has not had any discussions to that effect, sources say. The jays are reluctant to trade pitching given their lack of depth, and only three pitchers in the majors have thrown more innings than dickey in the past five seasons --- james shields, clayton kershaw and felix hernandez.

 

[schenneuf]

Awesome trade.

As an aside, a point -- for everyone saying sign pitcher x to a 1-year deal, you should know by know that in those scenarios, pitchers do not sign with TO on 1-year deals. Pitchers do that to rebuild their value and hit FA the following year. They choose pitcher-friendly parks to do that, not the hitter-friendly dome and AL East. Stop living in fantasy land!

But great trade.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

yep, that sounds like a dream. The only 2 year deal Chris Davis would be signing would be a 2 year 120 million dollar deal and that's obviously not happening. He's not going to give up his big payday.

well I think he's missed out on his big payday, he could be this years kendry morales, he might have to take a one year deal and wait till next to get payed. im sorry davis isn't worth 20-25 mil a year let alone the figure your throwing out, he will probably get something between the 14-20 mil. he still has lots of questions surrounding his off and on years.

 

[zeke]

I don't get why people want Davis. He's 30yrs old with only 2 good seasons in his career, and last year (which was one of the two) would have been only our 4th best hitter.

$25m? crazytalk.

 

[Jes5ant]

Does anyone think it's weird that the jays went from having Hendricks, Lowe, Hawkins, Loup, Cecil, Osuna and Sanchez in the bullpen to having Chavez, Loup, Cecil, Osuna, Storen. And they want to have Sanchez in the rotation. From what I can tell we still have less arms than last year. I think they should get another BP arm and THEN start thinking about converting Sanchez. I am aware that there Tepera and Biagrini (SP) Are in there somewhere as well but I don't think they will see much use. I just feel like it's the cart before the horse.

 

[Jes5ant]

Although I suppose Hutch would move into the BP if Sanchez grabbed a rotation spot.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Eyedea]

Does anyone think it's weird that the jays went from having Hendricks, Lowe, Hawkins, Loup, Cecil, Osuna and Sanchez in the bullpen to having Chavez, Loup, Cecil, Osuna, Storen. And they want to have Sanchez in the rotation. From what I can tell we still have less arms than last year. I think they should get another BP arm and THEN start thinking about converting Sanchez. I am aware that there Tepera and Biagrini (SP) Are in there somewhere as well but I don't think they will see much use. I just feel like it's the cart before the horse.

Well Hawkins retired and Lowe wasn't exactly good for us. There's nothing weird about bullpen turnover, and Chavez offers legitimate versatility as a starter while Hendriks is strictly a relief option now.

 

[KuleminFan41]

I don't get why people want Davis. He's 30yrs old with only 2 good seasons in his career, and last year (which was one of the two) would have been only our 4th best hitter.

$25m? crazytalk.

lol Only 2 good years? He's had 2 great years,and one good one since moving to Baltimore . 2014 he struggled but 2012 he played well where he led them in almost all offensive categories or at the least was 2nd not to mention they went to the post season that year

I assume you'd have given top dollar toward EE or Bautista after 2 great seasons on failing teams but not to the guy who's done well on successful ones? Davis is a good player and to dismiss a guy at 29(not 30) because he only just began playing well (according to you) ,is foolish when we have 2 guys that were in the same boat as him and one of which played at this high of a level at an older age. Edwins break out year 29 , Bautista's break out year he was also 29 which is older than Davis in his break out season at 26

 

[zeke]

I don't get what's funny.

He's 30yrs old, and has had only two seasons where he was above average. And they weren't even consecutive. Just a season ago he was barely above replacement level.

When Bautista and EE had their breakouts, we were able to sign them for very reasonable deals - and even then many thought we were overpaying at the time.

$25m for Davis sounds beyond ludicrous to me.

 

[zeke]

Does anyone think it's weird that the jays went from having Hendricks, Lowe, Hawkins, Loup, Cecil, Osuna and Sanchez in the bullpen to having Chavez, Loup, Cecil, Osuna, Storen. And they want to have Sanchez in the rotation. From what I can tell we still have less arms than last year. I think they should get another BP arm and THEN start thinking about converting Sanchez. I am aware that there Tepera and Biagrini (SP) Are in there somewhere as well but I don't think they will see much use. I just feel like it's the cart before the horse.

as of now, the default is likely Sanchez Osuna and Hutch in the BP.

I don't love that, but as long as the team remains flexible on that I'm happy. Getting Storen to pair with Cecil at the backend definitely frees up the kids to potentially start.

My hope is that all 3 of Osuna Sachez and Hutch are stretched out on spring training and given a legit shot to earn a starting rotation spot. I want it to be clear to those pitchers and the rest of us that those 3 are still looked at as potential starters going forward, and aren't being relegated to pen duty already.

Just based on salaries, Dickey Happ Estrada are all locks for spots, which is fine. But they are all on the old side and will likely suffer some injuries. As long as the 3 kids are given a fair shot at the #5 slot against Chavez, and clearly in the mix to move into the rotation if there are injuries to others, I'm happy.

As of now though, while there are some questions about role, it looks pretty clear that 11 of the 12 pitching slots are committed too at this point - Stroman, Dickey, Happ, Estrada, Chavez, Osuna, Sanchez, Hutchison, Storen, Cecil, Loup. And I wouldn't be surprised to see them pick up another serviceable reliever who falls through the FA cracks before spring training starts.