Blue Jays Discussion: Let the post-winter-meeting, pre-spring-training baseball withdrawl commence!

[Jes5ant]

No one hated Ben Revere; at least not in here. Some simply recognized him for what he was: one and a half tools of baseball goodness.

I read a fair bit of hate. And even with his average at best defensive skills he was an improvement over defensively over what we had out there at the time.

 

[Mitchy]

I love the trade. I think it's exactly what we needed. But the hate people had for Revere is very odd. He was one of our best hitters down the stretch. He was a very good leadoff man for us. The best we've had in a long long time. Not everyone needs to hit dingers. We had previous years of home run happy teams that didn't get us anywhere because we were incapable of doing anything else. The ability to hit #singles is underrated by too many people.

Again, I loved the trade, but Revere was a very good player. Pompey has big shoes to fill. Many top prospects fail. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

He had a wRC+ of 102 with us. Not bad, but he was far from being one of the best hitters on our team.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I read a fair bit of hate. And even with his average at best defensive skills he was an improvement over defensively over what we had out there at the time.

Again, accurately assessing a player's value only translates to hatred when the individual interpreting the assessment is overrating the player....which was happening consistently throughout the fanbase.

 

[TootooTrain]

I read a fair bit of hate. And even with his average at best defensive skills he was an improvement over defensively over what we had out there at the time.

With Colabello and Valencia patrolling left field it's easy to improve in that regard. Alot of people loved his personality, loved the lack of strikeouts, and his defense was a much needed upgrade. However to be a true contending team people thought he needed to be replaced due to his limited tools. That's all.

Also his throwing arm is one of the worst I have ever seen in my life. So it's bound to create a few jokes.

 

[tml19]

I love the trade. I think it's exactly what we needed. But the hate people had for Revere is very odd. He was one of our best hitters down the stretch. He was a very good leadoff man for us. The best we've had in a long long time. Not everyone needs to hit dingers. We had previous years of home run happy teams that didn't get us anywhere because we were incapable of doing anything else. The ability to hit #singles is underrated by too many people.

Again, I loved the trade, but Revere was a very good player. Pompey has big shoes to fill. Many top prospects fail. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

Not even the best last season. Reyes and Travis were both way better.

 

[Bad News Benning]

With Colabello and Valencia patrolling left field it's easy to improve in that regard. Alot of people loved his personality, loved the lack of strikeouts, and his defense was a much needed upgrade. However to be a true contending team people thought he needed to be replaced due to his limited tools. That's all.

Also his throwing arm is one of the worst I have ever seen in my life. So it's bound to create a few jokes.

I wouldn't say he needed to be replaced but given his projected salary and other Outfield options it made sense to move him for a back end arm for the pen.

I'm sure it won't take more than a year for Pompey and possibly Alford to make people quickly forget about Revere.

 

[mikebel111*]

Jonathan Diaz signs with the Yankees. Well guys... it's been nice knowing you

see ya, never wanna be ya

 

[Jes5ant]

With Colabello and Valencia patrolling left field it's easy to improve in that regard. Alot of people loved his personality, loved the lack of strikeouts, and his defense was a much needed upgrade. However to be a true contending team people thought he needed to be replaced due to his limited tools. That's all.

Also his throwing arm is one of the worst I have ever seen in my life. So it's bound to create a few jokes.

His throwing arm was really the only minus. Left fielders is where many teams bury their worst outfielder. He was average at worst in the field.

Thank god Revere is gone, never thought the Jays would get Storen for him though, so I'm extremely happy. That bullpen is looking rather nice. Surprised people say Revere has good defense, his arm is miserable, and he has a habit of taking terrible routes. Don't get me started on his offense.

That right there is an example of over exaggeration and hate. He took some interesting routes, but he still caught the ball.

He had a wRC+ of 102 with us. Not bad, but he was far from being one of the best hitters on our team.

I'll concede that he wasn't one of the best on our team. But we had the best offence in baseball. So that's pretty hard to do. He was however one of the better leadoff and contact hitters in baseball.

 

[Jes5ant]

I wouldn't say he needed to be replaced but given his projected salary and other Outfield options it made sense to move him for a back end arm for the pen.

I'm sure it won't take more than a year for Pompey and possibly Alford to make people quickly forget about Revere.

The trade made perfect sense. He was a great asset to have. But you can't win the world series without a stellar bullpen.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Again, accurately assessing a player's value only translates to hatred when the individual interpreting the assessment is overrating the player....which was happening consistently throughout the fanbase.

There was quite a lot of hate for Revere. It was constant whining about him, people even complained when he got on base. Nothing wrong with saying he doesn't have the best arm or doesn't have any power in his bat but complaining for the sake of complaining isn't accurately assessing a player. Maybe you weren't hating on him but it doesn't mean that there weren't people doing it. There was quite a lot of it

 

[Jes5ant]

There was quite a lot of hate for Revere. It was constant whining about him, people even complained when he got on base. Nothing wrong with saying he doesn't have the best arm or doesn't have any power in his bat but complaining for the sake of complaining isn't accurately assessing a player. Maybe you weren't hating on him but it doesn't mean that there weren't people doing it. There was quite a lot of it

Thank you. Revere was clutch once he got out of his initial slump. But it seemed like it was too late for a lot of people on this board. I'm not pointing a finger at anyone, aside from my earlier SkiesofArcadia quote. You see a lot of it right now with people saying all he could do was hit singles. So what? Some great players have made careers off of "just hitting singles". For years we needed average and then when we finally got it we needed more power. Despite having the most power in the league.

 

[JS19]

That right there is an example of over exaggeration and hate. He took some interesting routes, but he still caught the ball.

How is that in any exaggeration and hate? If you want to downplay his flaws that's fine, but don't confuse an assessment of him as hate and exaggeration. IMO, there was no reason to keep him when he was an extremely replaceable piece.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Thank you. Revere was clutch once he got out of his initial slump. But it seemed like it was too late for a lot of people on this board. I'm not pointing a finger at anyone, aside from my earlier SkiesofArcadia quote. You see a lot of it right now with people saying all he could do was hit singles. So what? Some great players have made careers off of "just hitting singles". For years we needed average and then when we finally got it we needed more power. Despite having the most power in the league.

Re "Clutch": Precious Lord.

Re "Great Players": Please name them.

 

[MarMarSab3]

I liked Revere but he was a piece we did not need with Saunders and Pompey around. Hoping Saunders can return to form before his injury

 

[zeke]

Forgetting Loup. They're now five deep at the back end with sub-3 SIERA relievers.

Loup is solid, but more in the 0.5war pace range than 1.5 like those 4.

I also think Hutch would be a heckuva reliever if he loses out on a rotation spot. Chavez would also be a decent rp.

 

[zeke]

I present this only as a curiosity, not as any type of argument.

Storen 2yr Stats (Age 26-27)

Pre-Papelbon: 92.2ip, 36era-, 65fip-
Post-Papelbon: 17.2ip, 182era-, 121fip-

feel free to Choose Your Own Narrative, however.

 

[zeke]

And i'm still haunted by the possibility that starting revere and his 65wrc+ in the playoffs with the most PA of anyone on the team and poor defense over Pompey, who was scorching hot at the plate when called up and a much better defense, may well have cost us a world series.

 

[tml19]

Thank you. Revere was clutch once he got out of his initial slump. But it seemed like it was too late for a lot of people on this board. I'm not pointing a finger at anyone, aside from my earlier SkiesofArcadia quote. You see a lot of it right now with people saying all he could do was hit singles. So what? Some great players have made careers off of "just hitting singles". For years we needed average and then when we finally got it we needed more power. Despite having the most power in the league.

There is more then hitting for average to be a good lead off guy. He hit singles or grounded out, he never walked or hit for power. People see the average and think he is a good lead off hitter but he is bellow average. He does not set the table with extra base hits, nor does he get on base enough to justify having him lead off over someone like Pompey. Pompey may get on base slightly less then Revere but the table setting ability he has more then makes up for that.

 

[JS19]

There is more then hitting for average to be a good lead off guy. He hit singles or grounded out, he never walked or hit for power. People see the average and think he is a good lead off hitter but he is bellow average. He does not set the table with extra base hits, nor does he get on base enough to justify having him lead off over someone like Pompey. Pompey may get on base slightly less then Revere but the table setting ability he has more then makes up for that.

Exactly what my gripe is with him hitting #1.

 

[TootooTrain]

His throwing arm was really the only minus. Left fielders is where many teams bury their worst outfielder. He was average at worst in the field.

The only 'minus' perhaps. Fact remains he was 'average' at a few other things. And a kid like Pompey has the potential to be better in most facets. Again, the thing this all stemmed from, I don`t hate the guy. Decent little player, but they can do better, for cheaper.

 

[Bozak42]

If Dickey is in play, what would you guys realistically expect back for him?
Reliever? Backup C? Middling prospects?

 

[Canada4Gold]

I always assume the PTBNL is a draft pick. The Jays pick who the Nats want and once selected he's flipped over to them.

No I'm pretty sure it can't be. PTBNL has to be named within 6 months, I think the new rule changed it so that drafted players have to wait 6 months before being traded(instead of the old 12), players picked next draft won't be eligible to be traded soon enough by the time the PTBNL has to be named.

it's likely varying players based on the amount of cash the Nats are paying us because that's still undetermined because both Revere and Storen are up for arbitration. Once that's decided then the player will be named. Probably nobody either way unless it's some massive difference in money which would probably see a better prospect go but that won't happen.

[/B]

How has the issue been rectified? Have Saunders or Pompey been in some secret league tearing the cover off the ball? Or are you basing this on past statistics. If thats the case, the issue has not been rectified and id say there's a better chance we'd be dealing with a struggling Pompey after a fragile Saunders gets hurt.

Well the Jays seem to think so. They went into last season with Saunders, Pompey and Pillar in 2 of the 3 outfield spots. That was their solution. 2 of those options dissapeared as Saunders got hurt and Pompey stuggled and the team deemed he needed another year in the minors. Those options are there again now just like they were last year when management thought they were adequate. That's the solution

Sure there's the chance Saunders is garbage coming off his injury, and Pompey continues to struggle, but both happening is unlikely, keeping a 3rd option around that's making 3 times the other 2 conbined because of a small chance something bad happens when you can use said piece to get a massive improvement in the pen woyuldn't be prudent. If there's still a hole in LF mid-season we'll just trade 2 more nothing prospects for a left fielder like we did last year to get Revere.

There was quite a lot of hate for Revere. It was constant whining about him, people even complained when he got on base. Nothing wrong with saying he doesn't have the best arm or doesn't have any power in his bat but complaining for the sake of complaining isn't accurately assessing a player. Maybe you weren't hating on him but it doesn't mean that there weren't people doing it. There was quite a lot of it

People didn't complain about Revere when he got on base. People sarcastically prepared themselves for the "look Revere is so amazing" posts that were coming or already there. Every time Revere came to the plate there was a argument over the merits of his tools regardless of whether he got on base or not.

Nobody was complaining about Revere getting on base, people were complaining about having to post the same crap everytime when people fawned over Revere explaining his usefulness and lack of usefulness. I know it's not something you want to hear but the irritation was never with Revere it was with all the posters who loved to argue about Revere.

The posts right now were the exact same as then. and went something like this. He can hit singles at a 30% rate, and steal a base. However there's a lot of stuff he doesn't do well and that will make him overpaid and likely traded in the offseason.

Hey look who was just traded in the offseason.

 

[Jes5ant]

The only 'minus' perhaps. Fact remains he was 'average' at a few other things. And a kid like Pompey has the potential to be better in most facets. Again, the thing this all stemmed from, I don`t hate the guy. Decent little player, but they can do better, for cheaper.

Pompey looks good. But he looked good to start last year.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If Dickey is in play, what would you guys realistically expect back for him?
Reliever? Backup C? Middling prospects?

Since the Jays seem pretty fixated upon competing, so it'll likely be Dickey + Thole for a pretty good reliever and a good backup catcher with any other pieces in there to balance it out. That backup catcher would solidify the position spots, while the reliever would seriously round off the bull pen. Only problem is whether or not Hutchison/Chavez/Sanchez will be able to pick up the slack in the 4/5 roles they'd take over.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Pompey looks good. But he looked good to start last year.

Pompey hadn't spent much time in AA/AAA prior to last year, couple months combined, he zoomed up in 2014. I would suggest he's much more prepared after spending much of last year at those 2 levels.

That doesn't mean he's gonna come in and light it up. But I expect he'll be capable of being a solid major leaguer at this point, easily capable of a .700 OPS with great defense which would make him more useful than Revere.