GDT: Let the Free Agency Madness begin

[WreckingCrew]

Some stupid post on FB suggested Pesce, Kochetkov, 1st, PHI 2nd...wild guess that's not a Canes fan

 

[Chan790]

How does that work as revenge if they bail and then we are the trading partner by default? He still has us at our last offer.

No. We're not compelled to make the trade at our last offer or any offer. We can literally just withdraw the offer or not finalize/submit the trade. He doesn't have us at anything...if we're being this petty, I doubt we care if we're burning bridges or pissing off Grier or Karlsson.

 

[bleedgreen]

I think people like this are just making shit up at this point. Let’s just throw it at the wall and see what sticks, if we guess right we’re geniuses.

 

[Justicebork]

Is Sunday FA news a thing?

 

[Justicebork]

Oh and I had that dream where I'm playing high school sports naked again last night so I'm back to not wanting EK even at 50% retained

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Then for what other reason would they have even considered signing him?

I'm not saying he isn't a good puck mover. He definitely is one of his best attributes. All I'm saying that his puck moving ability didn't make the difference on the PP that many like to think it did. We have had a lack of talent on the PP overall. Will adding Tony to it help? Sure, particularly as we would now have offensive guys on both PP unites, but there needs to be more, as the results with him weren't great after a hot start. Getting a better finisher other than Noesen for instance (maybe Bunting is that guy). Getting a shoot first/sniper style forward that can pick spots would be a huge help as well.

As to reasons they would consider signing him:
1) He'll be cheap depth, which is key with injuries and come playoff time.
2) They are familiar with him and he's familiar with the system.
3) He adds good depth and can, in a pinch, play up in the line-up if need be (unlike CDH and Coghlan last year).
4) He adds a 2nd offensive defenseman on the PP and one with a different style (vs. Burns) so both units will have that.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I'm not saying he isn't a good puck mover. He definitely is one of his best attributes. All I'm saying that his puck moving ability didn't make the difference on the PP that many like to think it did. We have had a lack of talent on the PP overall. Will adding Tony to it help? Sure, particularly as we would now have offensive guys on both PP unites, but there needs to be more, as the results with him weren't great after a hot start. Getting a better finisher other than Noesen for instance (maybe Bunting is that guy). Getting a shoot first/sniper style forward that can pick spots would be a huge help as well.

As to reasons they would consider signing him:
1) He'll be cheap depth, which is key with injuries and come playoff time.
2) They are familiar with him and he's familiar with the system.
3) He adds good depth and can, in a pinch, play up in the line-up if need be (unlike CDH and Coghlan last year).
4) He adds a 2nd offensive defenseman on the PP and one with a different style (vs. Burns) so both units will have that.

I don't know if anyone was claiming that we don't need better finishers, but I certainly wasn't. I was simply looking at why they'd want TDA at all, and the PP is basically the only reason that makes sense to me.

 

[NotOpie]

But might be a second situation where we offer market value and even better than the other team but more to it and the SJ GM feeling we have to overpay to make up for the last spanking he took on the Burns deal, even though no one else would have done the same last year and we simply used our cap management to best effect and helped Grier start to put his own stamp on the team by removing one of the anchor long term contracts that he inherited….

To me it sounds like DW is offering a better deal than the Pens just to keep the Pens from getting him and dragging SJ on for the Meier situation

I was getting ready to say "counterpoint" prior to what @Unsustainable said. And for a bit, given how Wadell's anger at the Meier situation was described, I thought that, yes, we might be that petty.

Then I got to think about it a bit, and I just think it is very, very tactical. It feels like Don is offering just enough to keep San Jose interested, but not enough to get San Jose to pull the trigger....and I believe that's exactly what he wants to do....let this roll for a while until somebody gets desperate and over pays or until San Jose realizes they don't have a better alternative.

Karlsson is still perfectly happy playing in SJ and Grier is happy to have him on the team.

I believe perfectly happy is a bit of an overstatement. He's requested a trade and by all reports, San Jose is attempting to honor that request. He's not asking to be traded because he's happy to stay there; it's clearly not his 1st choice. He's at the age where he wants that ring and knows time is running out. The longer he has to stay in the dumpster fire that is the Sharks today, the more his window closes.

 

[Raleighpig]

Oh and I had that dream where I'm playing high school sports naked again last night so I'm back to not wanting EK even at 50% retained

I'd be on board reliving high school sports naked if the cheerleaders were involved also.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Sounds like Dundon killed the TDA trade

I don't know that I buy this or if it means what the tweeter thinks it means. From all accounts, Dundon IS involved in all the deals the Canes make. Brindy, in one interview said Dundon was working hard and calling him often, even on the 4th of July. I can't see any way that Waddell went out and made a deal in the first place without Dundon being on board.

Now, maybe after the league put a nix on it and the Canes then acquired Orlov, Dundon was involved in the decision to not complete a trade. Could be for reasons Lempo wrote about. Could be they have Orlov and aren't as interested in Tony. Could be they are waiting on the Karlsson thing to play out, etc.. etc...

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I don't know that I buy this or if it means what the tweeter thinks it means. From all accounts, Dundon IS involved in all the deals the Canes make. Brindy, in one interview said Dundon was working hard and calling him often, even on the 4th of July. I can't see any way that Waddell went out and made a deal in the first place without Dundon being on board.

Now, maybe after the league put a nix on it and the Canes then acquired Orlov, Dundon was involved in the decision to not complete a trade. Could be for reasons Lempo wrote about. Could be they have Orlov and aren't as interested in Tony. Could be they are waiting on the Karlsson thing to play out, etc.. etc...

I think that it's almost certainly about Karlsson. From a handedness perspective, TDA and Orlov are totally separate matters, and though Orlov is an underrated offensive player, he is more defensively-oriented in general. The 1st power play unit likely goes to either Karlsson OR TDA this season, so it feels like a one-or-the-other kind of choice.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I was simply looking at why they'd want TDA at all, and the PP is basically the only reason that makes sense to me.

That's certainly a big consideration, but IMO, not the only one. He'd be cheap depth that knows the system. I'd rather have DeAngelo on the bottom pairing than guys like Bear, Coghlan, CDH, or Brendan Smith. There will be injuries and to be able to plug a guy like DeAngelo or Chatfield into the top 4 short term is a nice situation to be in. I don't think they are ideal for the top 4, but we know they can be a stopgap, as both of them have shown that.

All that said, they made the deal with Philly BEFORE signing Orlov. We also have no idea what their plans are re: Pesce and Skjei and how serious they are with Karlsson, so there are a lot of variables that have changed since the original deal was struck with Philly.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think that it's almost certainly about Karlsson.

I think that's a big part of it for sure.

From a handedness perspective, TDA and Orlov are totally separate matters, a

Not really. Depends on who they trade of Skjei/Pesce. For instance, before Orlov, it seemed the Canes plan was to trade Pesce and trade for TDA. That's what pretty much everyone thought. Then, the Canes grabbed Orlov and it freed up the possibility of trading Skjei instead, or even keeping what they've got, which I don't think will happen.

nd though Orlov is an underrated offensive player, he is more defensively-oriented in general. The 1st power play unit likely goes to either Karlsson OR TDA this season, so it feels like a one-or-the-other kind of choice.

Probably.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I'd rather have DeAngelo on the bottom pairing than guys like Bear, Coghlan, CDH, or Brendan Smith.

Not if TDA added nothing on the PP, you wouldn't. Any number of replacement level guys would be just as valuable and would bring actual defensive skills. If TDA weren't basically a #1 PPQB for this team, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 

[raynman]

I'd be on board reliving high school sports naked if the cheerleaders were involved also.

Ugh what a pig!

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Not if TDA added nothing on the PP, you wouldn't.

It's kind of an impossible argument. Because the things that he brings to the table on the PP he also brings to the table at ES. Is he a strong defender? No. Does he move the puck well, pass it well, have good vision, and skate well? Yes, and those are attributes that work well in our system. I would take TDA (Cheaply) on our 3rd pairing over guys like Bear, Coghlan, CDH, Smith,Fleury, etc. that we've used the past 3 seasons.

Any number of replacement level guys would be just as valuable and would bring actual defensive skills

I disagree. The "replacement level guys" we've tried (the names I mentioned above) haven't been just as valuable, or frankly, good at all.

If TDA weren't basically a #1 PPQB for this team, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Fair enough.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

It's kind of an impossible argument. Because the things that he brings to the table on the PP he also brings to the table at ES. Is he a strong defender? No. Does he move the puck well, pass it well, have good vision, and skate well? Yes, and those are attributes that work well in our system. I would take TDA (Cheaply) on our 3rd pairing over guys like Bear, Coghlan, CDH, Smith,Fleury, etc. that we've used the past 3 seasons.

I disagree. The "replacement level guys" we've tried (the names I mentioned above) haven't been just as valuable, or frankly, good at all.


Fair enough.

Ian Cole took a ton of penalties, sure, but I always thought that he was quite effective. He's sort of paid accordingly, though, as a well-above replacement bottom-pair player around the league (Tampa and Vancouver both paid $3M for his services).

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Ian Cole took a ton of penalties, sure, but I always thought that he was quite effective. He's sort of paid accordingly, though, as a well-above replacement bottom-pair player around the league (Tampa and Vancouver both paid $3M for his services).

Exactly. He was fine, but I didn't include him because he wasn't paid like a replacement level player.

 

[LakeLivin]

No. We're not compelled to make the trade at our last offer or any offer. We can literally just withdraw the offer or not finalize/submit the trade. He doesn't have us at anything...if we're being this petty, I doubt we care if we're burning bridges or pissing off Grier or Karlsson.

I could see the Borg maybe screwing with Grier, but not Karlsson. Canes have made the transition from a team that presumably players generally wanted to avoid to a team that players generally want to join. I can't see them diluting that dynamic by screwing with a player like Karlsson. I know you qualified it with "if we're being this petty", but I think the Borg is too smart to lose sight of the big picture.

 

[NotOpie]

While with us, Ian Cole took something like 32 penalties and drew 6. Based on our PK% that would have led to 4 or 5 goals. Don't know how many goals we would have scored on the 6 that he drew.

 

[Chrispy]

While with us, Ian Cole took something like 32 penalties and drew 6. Based on our PK% that would have led to 4 or 5 goals. Don't know how many goals we would have scored on the 6 that he drew.

You know.

You may not want to admit it, but you know.

 

[Derailed75]

Not if TDA added nothing on the PP, you wouldn't. Any number of replacement level guys would be just as valuable and would bring actual defensive skills. If TDA weren't basically a #1 PPQB for this team, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I disagree. If TDA added nothing to the power play he is pretty much level with all those guys. Some are better defenders but even without the PP QB TDA is a better puck mover. And while RBA may not like it fighting is still part of the game and TDA will throw gloves faster and better then thise 4 listed.


So yea we want him because of his PP ability but he's is a pretty typical 3rd pair in this league just like the 4 listed

 

[Justicebork]

You know.

You may not want to admit it, but you know.

6?

 

[BabchukCanon]

6?

42 clearly.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I disagree. If TDA added nothing to the power play he is pretty much level with all those guys. Some are better defenders but even without the PP QB TDA is a better puck mover. And while RBA may not like it fighting is still part of the game and TDA will throw gloves faster and better then thise 4 listed.


So yea we want him because of his PP ability but he's is a pretty typical 3rd pair in this league just like the 4 listed

Except that he can't play on the third pair because he needs a really good stay at home partner or he gets beaten like a rug.