GDT: Let the Free Agency Madness begin

[Discipline Daddy]

Canes are IMO sort of a fusion of both the Tampa philosophy and the Patriots' "creative destruction" philosophy. They are going to sign Necas and Jarvis to max-term deals, though Jarvis will likely bridge the first two like Necas did. Where the Canes differ from Tampa is that they are much more strict about not going over a certain line to keep non-core players. Tampa is more comfortable, for example, about giving someone like Nick Paul a 7 year contract.

You're probably right. I think Brindy considers Jarvis like his first born child, and the Canes organization will be thrilled to extend him for 8 years when it comes time.

For Necas, I just have a hard time squaring away how he fits on the team. Come playoffs every year, he is a net neutral at best, and his speed and agility don't seem to be utilized properly. He's got insane skill but it just isn't clicking like you would like. The best move is probably to hold on to him and patience will pay off in time. If the right deal comes along, as others have said, I could see Necas being the central piece. But the likelihood of us getting a Pettersson or any upgrade on Necas is low.

 

[WreckingCrew]

You're probably right. I think Brindy considers Jarvis like his first born child, and the Canes organization will be thrilled to extend him for 8 years when it comes time.

For Necas, I just have a hard time squaring away how he fits on the team. Come playoffs every year, he is a net neutral at best, and his speed and agility don't seem to be utilized properly. He's got insane skill but it just isn't clicking like you would like. The best move is probably to hold on to him and patience will pay off in time. If the right deal comes along, as others have said, I could see Necas being the central piece. But the likelihood of us getting a Pettersson or any upgrade on Necas is low.

I have a hard time ragging Necas for the playoffs last year same way I struggled to blame Skinner for being the only guy on the team who looked like he was even trying or gave a f*** half the time. Necas was definitely trying to do too much...but when Jordan Martinook is tied with your best player for leading your team in playoff points (and it's less than a PPG), yea nobody was really clicking much outside of the Devils series. He wasn't great but much of our offense was no-shows

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

 

[chaz4hockey]

Two of Brisson clients are TDA and Jones. I wonder if Canes are playing the long game so Brisson won’t be a trade stumbling block when the time comes.

 

[NotOpie]

I was thinking about potential UFA options in the event that Pesce walks (or, more likely, sign-and-traded a la Severson for the 8th year). One name that keeps popping in my head is Matt Roy (pronounced in the English way). The Kings have Brandt Clarke and are therefore likely to walk him; I wouldn't be shocked if the Canes look to him as the Pesce successor, especially if he's signable for a 2-3 year term like Orlov (which would only take him to age 30-31). The Kings have had a RHD glut for a few seasons, and he hasn't really had the ice time to try showcase his talents even though he's always been a very good defensive RHD.

Scott Morrow is the likely TDA replacement next season. Then if all goes according to plan, he becomes the Brent Burns replacement.

 

[Lempo]

Scott Morrow is the likely TDA replacement next season. Then if all goes according to plan, he becomes the Brent Burns replacement.

Went to see if he can grow a beard for cheap joke. Joke's on me, he totally need to make that stach happen.

 

[Sigurd]

Two of Brisson clients are TDA and Jones. I wonder if Canes are playing the long game so Brisson won’t be a trade stumbling block when the time comes.

Dearest Donnie Waddell,

Make it happen, if the opportunity presents itself, to get Elias Pettersson (#40) from Vancouver. We would at last get the young all-star tier (arguably super star) forward which we've been trying to add to our team for over a year now.

Pettersson would help leads us to the mountaintop with winning the cup. He'd push us over the top IMO.

In the Borg we trust.

*Edit*



Apparently he gave a recent interview in Swedish which was translated, and this bit is interesting.

 

[bleedgreen]

I think adding any scoring is a good thing overall. I just don’t see Pettersson as the obvious cure. We’re going to make the playoffs without more scoring, it’s about adding more scoring for the playoffs without losing all the grits. He’s another guy defenses can grind on when it matters and presumably limit his effectiveness.

That 2C doesn’t need to be high end scoring as much as a solid two way player with more offense than Staal and probably KK.

All of which is probably moot as I think we’ve invested in KK so unless he completely bombs he’s the 2C.

 

[cptjeff]

I think adding any scoring is a good thing overall. I just don’t see Pettersson as the obvious cure. We’re going to make the playoffs without more scoring, it’s about adding more scoring for the playoffs without losing all the grits. He’s another guy defenses can grind on when it matters and presumably limit his effectiveness.

That 2C doesn’t need to be high end scoring as much as a solid two way player with more offense than Staal and probably KK.

All of which is probably moot as I think we’ve invested in KK so unless he completely bombs he’s the 2C.

He could easily go back the other direction in a Pettersson trade. Pettersson is worth doing that no matter how highly you think of KK.

 

[bleedgreen]

He could easily go back the other direction in a Pettersson trade. Pettersson is worth doing that no matter how highly you think of KK.

You’re right he’d probably have to. No doubt we’d be a better regular season team, and I’m sure we’d be a bit better in the playoffs. I just don’t know that the difference would equal the cost of acquisition and the contract.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Pettersson to Carolina makes so much sense given that Canes need scoring and have more prospects to offer Van and the cap space to accommodate his long term contract ask. I don't doubt the Borg would be willing to make that kind of splash.

I do doubt that Vancouver would be willing to be a dance partner, and I think they'll clutch Pettersson for as long as he is contractually tied to the Canucks. He'll pay there this season, and then maybe Van trades him in the offseason, or maybe they swallow and sign him to a 1 year deal. I don't see Van making the playoffs this year, and if that doesn't happen Pettersson probably doesn't sign.

 

[Svechhammer]

Pettersson to Carolina makes so much sense given that Canes need scoring and have more prospects to offer Van and the cap space to accommodate his long term contract ask. I don't doubt the Borg would be willing to make that kind of splash.

I do doubt that Vancouver would be willing to be a dance partner, and I think they'll clutch Pettersson for as long as he is contractually tied to the Canucks. He'll pay there this season, and then maybe Van trades him in the offseason, or maybe they swallow and sign him to a 1 year deal. I don't see Van making the playoffs this year, and if that doesn't happen Pettersson probably doesn't sign.

EP on the Canes is the kind of move that pushes the Canes to a Cup like Eichel did for Vegas. If there's any chance he can break free, we have to be all over it like stink on shit.

He could easily go back the other direction in a Pettersson trade. Pettersson is worth doing that no matter how highly you think of KK.

For EP, I'd dangle Skjei or Pesce, KK, Morrow and 2 1st round picks and not think twice about it. And that's probably just a starting point.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

EP on the Canes is the kind of move that pushes the Canes to a Cup like Eichel did for Vegas. If there's any chance he can break free, we have to be all over it like stink on shit.


For EP, I'd dangle Skjei or Pesce, KK, Morrow and 2 1st round picks and not think twice about it. And that's probably just a starting point.

Eichel return was Tuch, Krebs, 1st, 2nd.

I know we're talking about the validity of his scouting in another thread, but in 2021, Pronman had Krebs as a "projected bubble top and middle of lineup player". For comparison, Morrow is a "middle of lineup player", so a notch below Krebs.

So... does Skjei/Pesce + KK = Tuch? And are we even talking about the same return or do we feel EP is worth more based on lack of injury uncertainty? Who's to say.

I like it as a starting point.

 

[bleedgreen]

Some of these offers are definitely out of whack for how these trades go. Not everyone is going to be in on this, few teams have the combo of assets and cap space. After the Matthews deal and the season EP had you know he’s going to go for similar money.

@Anton Dubinchuk I don’t know that Krebs would be viewed as a better prospect than Morrow. He’s an offensive RD with some size, even if he doesn’t use it much. They have to be pretty comparable in value if not Morrow having the edge just based on position, style and size. KK, Morrow and a 1st is pretty much there if they’re selling EP off out of necessity. We’d maybe make the deal bigger so we could move more money out to sign EP.

If you believe EP is the guy then you shouldn’t say no to Nikishin being in there but that should factor into whatever other pieces are involved.

 

[AD Skinner]

Does one year of skjei or Pesce really move the needle on a team that would be losing their best player in the deal and they weren’t all that good to begin with?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

You’re right he’d probably have to. No doubt we’d be a better regular season team, and I’m sure we’d be a bit better in the playoffs. I just don’t know that the difference would equal the cost of acquisition and the contract.

I'm in disagreement on this one. Sure, he's not the guy you design in a lab to put us over the top based on our current roster construction (that's probably Tkachuk, and we just missed on that one), but there's a clear pattern forming around the league for these types of trades, and it's that the team that goes out and gets the franchise player is typically not regretting it. The lineup is already busting at the seams with reasonably good roster players. We can afford to cut the fat, even the nice, yummy, marbled fat that we'd rather not lose if we don't have to. Florida doesn't miss Huberdeau or Weegar one bit right now, and Vegas doesn't really care how good Tuch has turned out to be. There are a finite amount of true difference makers in the league and I think there's a pretty ironclad argument to be made that Pettersson is one of them. At some point you cash in the plethora of assets you've been meticulously building up. Honestly, the starting point Svechhammer mentioned doesn't even really hurt us all that much. I like KK as a secondary core piece and think he's got more to give, but I don't think he's got 80pt potential. With EP I think you get that every year, we're talking about adding a player every bit as good as Sebastian Aho here.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Necas is the most logical centerpiece. He's a good young player that is controllable. Vancouver probably isn't going to be looking to tear it down under the circumstances.

Trying to make Aho/Pettersson/Svechnikov/Necas work cap-wise beyond the year would be a challenge on this side. He's expendable in a deal like that.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Some of these offers are definitely out of whack for how these trades go. Not everyone is going to be in on this, few teams have the combo of assets and cap space. After the Matthews deal and the season EP had you know he’s going to go for similar money.

@Anton Dubinchuk I don’t know that Krebs would be viewed as a better prospect than Morrow. He’s an offensive RD with some size, even if he doesn’t use it much. They have to be pretty comparable in value if not Morrow having the edge just based on position, style and size. KK, Morrow and a 1st is pretty much there if they’re selling EP off out of necessity. We’d maybe make the deal bigger so we could move more money out to sign EP.

To be clear, I'm talking about 2021 Peyton Krebs, not with 2 years of the benefit of hindsight.

 

[bleedgreen]

To be clear, I'm talking about 2021 Peyton Krebs, not with 2 years of the benefit of hindsight.

He was always undersized. I don’t know how hyped he really was.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

He was always undersized. I don’t know how hyped he really was.

He was hyped as a Projected bubble top and middle of lineup player by Corey Pronman in 2021.

 

[bleedgreen]

He was hyped as a Projected bubble top and middle of lineup player by Corey Pronman in 2021.

Yeah……I’m not the biggest Pronman guy.

I’ve seen too many bad uses of video and enough fairly obvious bad takes, though I do appreciate his effort.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Yeah……I’m not the biggest Pronman guy.

I’ve seen too many bad uses of video and enough fairly obvious bad takes, though I do appreciate his effort.

My point was just establishing prospect levels across eras, if you’ve got another guy with a rating system that more accurately shows Morrow as a better prospect than 2021 Krebs go for it, the point was that they are more or less comparable but at least one guy said slight edge 2021 Krebs.

 

[MinJaBen]

Necas is the most logical centerpiece. He's a good young player that is controllable. Vancouver probably isn't going to be looking to tear it down under the circumstances.

Is he? EP is also "controllable"...and yet, is not. Which is why a trade may happen.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Is he? EP is also "controllable"...and yet, is not. Which is why a trade may happen.

Sure he has the option to get to free agency as soon as possible (2026). However, that's a risk and he hasn't made much money in his career. The difference between the two is just a year, but it's a big year in that context.

 

[Svechhammer]

Necas is the most logical centerpiece. He's a good young player that is controllable. Vancouver probably isn't going to be looking to tear it down under the circumstances.

Trying to make Aho/Pettersson/Svechnikov/Necas work cap-wise beyond the year would be a challenge on this side. He's expendable in a deal like that.

Duh, I should have gone with Necas, he makes too much sense to not be included if we swing big like that.

Pesce/Skjei, Necas, Morrow, 2 first rounders for EP, and use that as a starting point.