They forgot to discuss their 3v3 aplay in July tho. Fantilli is significantly better at it. Would we change our pick had Madden known this?
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Player Discussion Leo Carlsson
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Laugh at it now... but those OT points from 4v4 can add up during the regular season. Speed can be very helpful.
Bro it was one prospect scrimmage. There is no data at this point that shows either will be better at 3v3 in the NHL.
Hockey Duckie
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If we look at things long term, the playoffs don't have 3v3 in OT.
Hopefully 3 on 3 goes away in the regular season. It was fun when it first was introduced now that teams have adjusted and play a more conservative approach, it has become rather boring, imo.
Don’t get me wrong there are moments when they are exciting but overall it’s just waiting out the clock to get it to the SO.
- Sep 21, 2018
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one thing that's really nice about our top 3 prospects is that they seem dedicated to improving. work ethic will be the furthest thing from being an issue for them. I would not be surprised if all three hit honestly. kinda in the same way in baseball with how the Orioles top prospects are the real deal
That's seemed like a trend recently, and something some of our later picks this last draft have too. Hopefully having that culture from the top down at every level of the organization means it rubs off on more prospects and we can develop more gems because they're pushed by their peers.
Hockey Duckie
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I don't think the 3v3 and shootout goes away. Those gimmicks are big draws for new or non-hockey fans. Probably a contributing factor in raising the cap significantly in the next couple of years.
Also, those gimmicks benefited the Ducks often last year as it displayed once the bench was shortened, Anaheim had equal or better talent on the ice. A majority of this board made fun about how we owned the worst regulation wins (RW) by a large margin for the first quarter of the season. Eakins tried his best to make lemonade out of the lemons PV gave him. We were involved in 22 OT/SO games last year, winning 10 of those opportunities.
First 25 games. We had only one RW.
Next 24 games. We had six RWs.
| Ducks 2022-23 | 1 - 25 | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Type of Games | Games | W | L | OTL | Pts | Pct of games | Point Share | Win Pct | ||
| Gm 1-25 | 25 | 6 | 17 | 3 | 15 | 100.0% | 30.0% | 24.0% | ||
| 1-goal games | 12 | 6 | 3 | 3 | 15 | 48.0% | 62.5% | 50.0% | ||
| Non 1-g games | 13 | 0 | 14 | 0 | 0 | 52.0% | 0.0% | 0.0% |
Next 24 games. We had six RWs.
| Ducks 2022-23 | 26 - 49 | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Type of Games | Games | W | L | OTL | Pts | Pct of games | Point Share | Win Pct | ||
| Gm 26-49 | 24 | 9 | 13 | 2 | 20 | 100.0% | 41.7% | 37.5% | ||
| 1-goal games | 7 | 5 | 0 | 2 | 12 | 29.2% | 85.7% | 71.4% | ||
| Non 1-g games | 17 | 4 | 13 | 0 | 8 | 70.8% | 23.5% | 23.5% |
Bleak
Registered User
Still laugh at the fact the Rangers gave the Ducks their first regulation win. That is so Rangers, lol
Brad Allen has been on the Leo over Fantilli train for a while, and he sees the two prospects almost exactly as I do when watched mannnny of their games. T
he only thing that is surprising and strange is that there were not more guys coming to the same conclusion in the scouting media (although I do think most of that is lazy groupthink). Very few guys had the depth of examples and though behind how they ranked Fantilli vs. Carlsson as brad has shown.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
I think with Fantilli's speed combined with his tenacity made for a very visceral image that you can gravitate towards more than a calculating player like Carlsson. A good example of that is the WC tourney. Fantilli looked dynamic on the ice, but only had one goal and two assists in 10 games. Many on here were praising about Fantilli's goal that sent the team to gold medal game. At that same tourney, Carlsson put up 3g + 2a in eight games. Many still thought Fantilli was the better player. The funny thing is Fantilli has so many scoring chances that didn't result into anything. (A pattern I found recurring when playing against tougher opponents.)
Elite Prospects' score card shows a significant difference in play between Fantilli and Carlsson, but most of their scouts believed that Fantilli will eventually develop the hockey sense. EP didn't want to trust their own scouting score card. It's very difficult go against the score card when Fantilli had the most goals (30g), points (65 pts), and win the Hobey Baker as a freshman.
Wheeler and Pronman also fell into the same scenario as EP, but I don't think it was at the same depth as the EP scorecard.
Pronman's 2023 Tiers
There really isn't much wrong with their thought because they see what they see now, which is Fantilli ahead of Carlsson. And with that huge head start, Carlsson probably cannot keep up. Even I thought Fantilli fitted PV's vision more, but I always preferred Carlsson's talent.
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I did try sharing often that I saw concerning flaws in Fantilli's game, but not many thought it valid. Even before the scorecard, I noticed that Fantilli played like Kent Johnson, hero puck. Both players have uber scoring talents and both have a difficult time playing the team game. Johnson was drafted as a center, but he played wing at Michigan for two seasons and is a wing with Columbus. Fantilli will get to start off at center with Columbus.
On a tangent, this is twice in three years that the Ducks have stolen a center projected to go to Columbus. In 2021, some mocks had McTavish going to Columbus, but ended up with C Johnson. Anaheim went against the masses in 2021. Similarly, in 2023, a majority of mocks had Carlsson going to Columbus, but came way with C Fantilli. Anaheim again went against the masses. Kinda eerie.
So many Ducks players, is this related to the PV comments earlier that our young guys will go to Florida to train on strength during the summer?
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
70sSanO
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Hopefully not. If there were 3v3 scrimmages in ‘03, we probably would have moved Getzlaf if it mattered.
John
So lot of media dissing Carlsson. Don’t even have him in Calder consideration next season or even top 3 among prospects in the league.
At this point I think I want him to stay in the SHL really develop strong, then let Bedard and Fantilli battle for the Calder this season, Leo can have a excellent chance to win it in the 2024-25 season.
Be warned fellas, Fantilli is going to be successful playing with Johnny hockey next year, and we are going to hear the “Ducks F’d up crap” Don’t fret we need to stay patient. Our D needs at least another year to come together and there will be more speed bumps this coming season.
Is it October yet? Because I’m so F’ing bored, lol
At this point I think I want him to stay in the SHL really develop strong, then let Bedard and Fantilli battle for the Calder this season, Leo can have a excellent chance to win it in the 2024-25 season.
Be warned fellas, Fantilli is going to be successful playing with Johnny hockey next year, and we are going to hear the “Ducks F’d up crap” Don’t fret we need to stay patient. Our D needs at least another year to come together and there will be more speed bumps this coming season.
Is it October yet? Because I’m so F’ing bored, lol
Watching Fantilli light it up is going to be so f***ing frustrating.
I know that’s why i said what I said. Preparing us. Lol.
I’m fine with it. I think Carlsson is going to be like a fine wine. Will get better with age.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
If PV is set on Carlsson becoming a top-6C, then he won't be a mainstay in the NHL next season. And seeing how our training camp will be eating up Carlsson's SHL pre-season and start of the season, it's possible that we just keep Carlsson on NA ice to get him acclimated to NA ice at the AHL level.
Carlsson feels like one of those A students, they'll always do well even in a bad environment. We do have some offensive forward talents in the AHL with LW Tracey, RW Perreault, and LW/RW Pastujov along with blue line support.
I do feel like Carlsson getting drafted 2nd OA was just a blip in the news and then back to propping up everyone else again. Gotta view Carlsson a few years from now and compare growth. Remember how not many believed in McTavish after we drafted him, including our board? Two years later, we're ecstatic how things have panned out. I still think McTavish has a higher ceiling and will be our 1C in the future.
Yeah good points. I think the NA ice is going to be a big factor to keep him here. We shall see.
Reveille1984
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- Dec 3, 2014
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I don't think it's really the media dissing Leo, but more the fact that he's expected to be in the SHL and that he's not a player stylistically that's likely to have immediate NHL breakout success compared to some of these other guys.
We all know Fantilli's physique, speed, and shot are more ready to transition to the NHL at this point, and the only way someone beats out Bedard anyways will be if he's injured. Once Verbeek called Carlsson's name at the draft, I think most expected that the early dividends wouldn't be on our side and patience was in order.
I'd say five years from now we'll have a pretty good idea where we stand with the 2023 draft crop.
We all know Fantilli's physique, speed, and shot are more ready to transition to the NHL at this point, and the only way someone beats out Bedard anyways will be if he's injured. Once Verbeek called Carlsson's name at the draft, I think most expected that the early dividends wouldn't be on our side and patience was in order.
I'd say five years from now we'll have a pretty good idea where we stand with the 2023 draft crop.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Will Carlsson even participate with Orebro's pre-season? I think missing SHL pre-season and start of the season is the bigger factor. Orebro has to plan to not have Carlsson ever again. Carlsson missing that much time with his new teammates to have/develop chemistry as a 1C will be more difficult.
At least with the AHL, it hasn't started yet and he's played with fellow prospects already like at the rookie tourney.
SHL pre-season: Aug 1 - Sept 10
SHL regular season start: Sept 14
NHL rookie Tourney: (last year was Sept 16 - 19)
NHL pre-season: Sept 23 - Oct 9
OHL season start: Sept 28
I just keep flashbacking to Lundy and how much better his offense could have been if he was just sent back to this SHL team after being drafted. Instead, we got him bouncing around from NHL to AHL to SHL and back to the AHL for the playoffs because his high end defense.
It's just less complicated to keep Carlsson on NA ice since he's been introduced to his new coaches (AHL and NHL) and teammates.
