Post-Game Talk: Legends of the Visible Garden

[mas0764]

You can lose speed quickly. You can start shying away from contact quickly. Zibanejad lost his hand-eye coordination way too quick. I don't know if there's something wrong with his hips or back, but it's painful to watch him try and shoot a puck off the pass these days. I mean it's painful to watch him do anything that requires pushing a puck off his stick.

I'm sure the offseason mindset will be "How do we improve the current team" but it needs to be how do we completely revamp this team.

I do wonder if his back is shot. He keeps fanning on pucks by sweeping his stick too high, like he's not getting down low enough and bent over enough.

 

[McRanger92]

Not everyone is an asshole like Sam Bennett. Most guys aren't. That's why these players are sought after.

I've said it a million times before: have we seen Kreider and Adam Graves in the same room?

Graves was also a quiet, unassuming dude who was willing to take abuse in tight areas and scored a bunch of goals. He was never the captain and he probably wouldn't swat a fly. I wasn't on the internet when I was 7, but Graves doesn't seem to get treated with the same level of criticism that Kreider does.

Did Graves do something different, or did those fans just grow up with Messier so they never expected Graves to be something he isn't?

Graves won a Cup and fought 55 times in his career (Postseason & regular season). He was an undersized netfront guy who was all heart and stood up for his teammates. He's nothing like Kreider outside the fact that they both played LW and scored 50 goals once.

Kreider was the type of player people wanted early on. He was stronger than everyone and hurt guys with his hits, so coaches told him to stop. Kreider hasnt stood up for a teammate since fighting Eakin for checking Lundqvist in 2020. I guess you can count him fighting Slewban in a preseason game a few years ago, but I dont.

 

[Machinehead]

Graves won a Cup and fought 55 times in his career (Postseason & regular season). He was an undersized netfront guy who was all heart and stood up for his teammates. He's nothing like Kreider outside the fact that they both played LW and scored 50 goals once.

Kreider was the type of player people wanted early on. He was stronger than everyone and hurt guys with his hits, so coaches told him to stop. Kreider hasnt stood up for a teammate since fighting Eakin for checking Lundqvist in 2020. I guess you can count him fighting Slewban in a preseason game a few years ago, but I dont.

He's nothing like Kreider except for the same style, same personality, and stats that you couldn't tell apart if I put them side by side.

Fighting is a horrible barometer to compare players from the 2010's to players from the 90's.

 

[CLW]

You do in that scenario.

He wasn’t the right player in that scenario and we have hindsight to lean on there. They may have backed their way into a cup if he didn’t dud up during the playoffs too.

For all his on ice talent Panarin was a huge bomb in the middle of the rebuild timeline. And it's not hindsight to point that out, everyone knew it at the time but "he was just too good to pass up" or something something.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Graves won a Cup and fought 55 times in his career (Postseason & regular season). He was an undersized netfront guy who was all heart and stood up for his teammates. He's nothing like Kreider outside the fact that they both played LW and scored 50 goals once.

Kreider was the type of player people wanted early on. He was stronger than everyone and hurt guys with his hits, so coaches told him to stop. Kreider hasnt stood up for a teammate since fighting Eakin for checking Lundqvist in 2020. I guess you can count him fighting Slewban in a preseason game a few years ago, but I dont.

Who gives a f*** how many times he fought? It's a sideshow that's for fans' entertainment. And Kreider could have won a cup on that team if you replaced Graves with him.

For all his on ice talent Panarin was a huge bomb in the middle of the rebuild timeline. And it's not hindsight to point that out, everyone knew it at the time but "he was just too good to pass up" or something something.

And yet if we continued rebuilding there's no guarantee that we'd be a better team this year much less the last three years. Most rebuilds fail.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Shouldnt he be put on IR if that is the case?

But sure, lets run with the narrative that Kreider is "injured". The hypocrisy on display in here is baffling.

Players play hurt all the time. Why is injured in quotations, he flat out said he was, not sure why you're choosing this hill to die on.

 

[McRanger92]

Who gives a f*** how many times he fought? It's a sideshow that's for fans' entertainment. And Kreider could have won a cup on that team if you replaced Graves with him.

Not true, Neil Smith wouldve traded him for veteran depth. And the fighting might be a sideshow for the fans but for the locker room and players it shows you're actually engaged when leaders fight.

 

[will1066]

And Kreider could have won a cup on that team if you replaced Graves with him.

Cmon. You can't prove that

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Cmon. You can't prove that

You can't but my statement isn't any more assinine than giving Graves all of the credit for a juggernaut winning a cup, a juggernaut that the Rangers haven't been in Kreider's tenure.

 

[will1066]

You can't but my statement isn't any more assinine than giving Graves all of the credit for a juggernaut winning a cup, a juggernaut that the Rangers haven't been in Kreider's tenure.

Ok. I didn't read the whole thing, but if you're right about the comments giving Graves all the credit, then ok.

 

[McRanger92]

You can't but my statement isn't any more assinine than giving Graves all of the credit for a juggernaut winning a cup, a juggernaut that the Rangers haven't been in Kreider's tenure.

The post you were replying to (mine) was about why fans like graves more than Kreider. I gave examples why. Its not "asinine" because you disagree.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The post you were replying to (mine) was about why fans like graves more than Kreider. I gave examples why. Its not "asinine" because you disagree.

It's asinine to give Graves credit for a cup on a team better than any that Kreider ever played on.

 

[Siddi]

"He can't operate under pressure."

"Oh yeah? Go watch a bunch of highlights of him scoring goals while operating in space!"

Just stop. I am not going to argue with you on such blatant hyperbole. You know you are missrepresenting in this case. I will leave it at that.

 

[McRanger92]

It's asinine to give Graves credit for a cup on a team better than any that Kreider ever played on.

Buddy, Im saying fans idolize Graves more than Kreider, because he won a Cup here and Kreider hasn't. Why is that outlandish? And it's not even my opinion, I was 1 year old when they won the 94 Cup. But I understand the logic completely.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Buddy, Im saying fans idolize Graves more than Kreider, because he won a Cup here and Kreider hasn't. Why is that outlandish? And it's not even my opinion, I was 1 year old when they won the 94 Cup. But I understand the logic completely.

Buddy, the point is not why he's idolized. The point is it's an absurd thing to hold over Kreider. And it's not like one guy is idolized and the other guy is neutral. Graves is idolized and Kreider is despised despite being a similar player.

 

[McRanger92]

Buddy, the point is not why he's idolized. The point is it's an absurd thing to hold over Kreider. And it's not like one guy is idolized and the other guy is neutral. Graves is idolized and Kreider is despised despite being a similar player.

Kreider is not despised gimme a break. Maybe here people are getting tired of him (myself included) but I dont hate him. Ill be at his number retirement I can promise you that. If he does get traded, wait for the reaction on social media then tell me he's despised by Ranger fans. It's pragmatic to look into trading a 34 year old with 2.5 years left, and ton of playoff success and experience. If you can add 2-3 long term difference making pieces in a bidding war, it's a no brainer for a team tracking to be an 8 seed at best right now.

 

[Mandar]

Are we all in agreement now that KAM is flat out awful ??

He legit looks like he could care less. ISO watch him and you see a guy moving in slow motion in the D zone casually moving back and forth but never actually doing anything.

It's obvious that he doesn't give a shit.

Sell now on him before the rest of the league realizes he's a bum.

hold on there sir.....there are some who might think your comments are somehow racially-based.....aint that right @IDvsEGO ? I've heard he has some fancy numbers that say he isnt doing that bad at all....in fact, he has been one of our best this year. At least that seems to be the opinion of a select few here.

 

[will1066]

Not true, Neil Smith wouldve traded him for veteran depth. And the fighting might be a sideshow for the fans but for the locker room and players it shows you're actually engaged when leaders fight.

lol. Smith would've traded him to either Edmonton or Chicago.

 

[JohnC]

Things got dire under AV but they turned over nearly the entire roster from his last season here by the time they were in the summer of 2019 and even more so by 2020.

The 2018-19 team sucked so hard. That team is one of the worst teams I’ve watched in my life. That was the most wretched hockey ever.

They worked their balls off though. One of the three things I’ll give Quinn credit for is that he had that team giving a shit when they had every reason not to.

If you want to point to when things shifted, it was when they traded for Trouba and signed Panarin. Quinn had no idea how to handle that and the next 2 guys have either let the Vets do what ever they want or ridden them despite the younger, lesser known players being better.

There’s a solid case to make that you can trace a straight line back to the worst AV years to get to the bottom of some of this team’s biggest issues.

• The AV teams became notorious for forwards flying the zone to facilitate a run and gun offense. The same philosophy of “we can afford to take these chances in transition because of our elite goaltender” has basically become baked in at an organization level
• The AV teams started the trend of ceding an ocean of ice on zone entries to the point where defensemen with bad gap control is the MO every year
• The whole “pacing ourselves so we’re fresh for the playoff” thing has led to consistent slow starts and bad effort play to the point where the players don’t even look like they understand the basic fundamentals of hockey. They sling the puck around the ice like they’re holding their sticks upside down and it results in pucks that are out of reach or in skates
• The team’s internal analytics became so obsessed with the high percentage of royal road plays that they hardly know how to generate offense anymore

AV transformed this team into a PDO team and it’s turned into an organizational rot that has now clearly been doubled down on by extending Shesterkin.

 

[McRanger92]

hold on there sir.....there are some who might think your comments are somehow racially-based.....aint that right @IDvsEGO ? I've heard he has some fancy numbers that say he isnt doing that bad at all....in fact, he has been one of our best this year. At least that seems to be the opinion of a select few here.

I watched Game 5 of the ECF from the Chase bridge near where the Rangers and Panthers black aces watched the game. It was a very cool view I had never had for a game, and its really striking how you can see the entire sheet.

What struck me in that game was how horrendous K'Andre was in it from minute 1. Turnovers, lack of positioning, lack of effort. Game 5 of the ECF that was tied 2-2! And that was the performance we got. Trade him for the same reason you can trade Kreider. he's got value before someone realizes his reputation is better than his play right now.

 

[Filip Chytil]

Postgame takeaways: Rangers hit new low in loss to NHL-worst Blackhawks

The Blueshirts failed to take advantage of this homestand and have now lost eight of their last 10.

www.lohud.com

The Miller-Braden Schneider defensive pair had an especially rough go at it, with a 6-1 advantage in HD chances for the Blackhawks while that duo was on the ice. They had shown positive signs since being reunited last week, but this was a step backwards. Miller, in particular, had a couple glaring giveaways, with one directly leading to Hall's goal.

But they didn't get help from pretty much any of the forwards. The Rangers' top six, which had largely produced positive results in the previous two games, were shellacked by a Chicago team they should have had their way with. The Panarin-Vincent Trocheck-Alexis Lafrenière and Kreider-Zibanejad-Reilly Smith lines combined for only two HD chances while allowing eight, with shot attempts going 32-26 against them.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Kreider is not despised gimme a break. Maybe here people are getting tired of him (myself included) but I dont hate him. Ill be at his number retirement I can promise you that. If he does get traded, wait for the reaction on social media then tell me he's despised by Ranger fans. It's pragmatic to look into trading a 34 year old with 2.5 years left, and ton of playoff success and experience. If you can add 2-3 long term difference making pieces in a bidding war, it's a no brainer for a team tracking to be an 8 seed at best right now.

I'm not saying he's despised because people want to trade him this season. I'm saying he's despised because every time I see his name pop up particularly in social media it's about how much of an underachiever he is. Never once is it in a positive light.

 

[Peltz]

For all his on ice talent Panarin was a huge bomb in the middle of the rebuild timeline. And it's not hindsight to point that out, everyone knew it at the time but "he was just too good to pass up" or something something.

You could still, even today, argue both sides of that decision.

If Islanders got him, they'd probably have a cup right now. The fact that they don't is almost worth the price of admission alone lol.

No doubt, Panarin's signing completely changed the direction of the franchise. I think the goal there was to speed up the rebuild to get one more run in for Hank's tenure since he wouldn't waive his NMC.

 

[Mandar]

I watched Game 5 of the ECF from the Chase bridge near where the Rangers and Panthers black aces watched the game. It was a very cool view I had never had for a game, and its really striking how you can see the entire sheet.

What struck me in that game was how horrendous K'Andre was in it from minute 1. Turnovers, lack of positioning, lack of effort. Game 5 of the ECF that was tied 2-2! And that was the performance we got. Trade him for the same reason you can trade Kreider. he's got value before someone realizes his reputation is better than his play right now.

I do think he has talent....and I do remember that at times, he has exhibited that talent. But unfortunately, he hasnt sustained it (thats the most frustrating part). Again, I know fancy stats might paint a different picture....but I think the best picture is the one we see on the ice.

The constant giveaways....the ill-timed pinches.....the indifference to clearing the crease...the seemingly lack of awareness on the ice.....all are very frustrating for a player who can/should be better.

 

[CLW]

You could still, even today, argue both sides of that.

You can, but... the issue is that the Rangers ended up attempting to ride two horses at once, with the obvious result. So the rationalization itself was the mistake to begin with.