Lefebvre Discussion

[Habs Halifax]

I can make a list twice that length for every NHL team.

Having said that, Lefebvre should be fired wether he's good or not

This is how I feel as well. I believe change is needed but I don't believe in finger pointing and the reasons some are coming up with

 

[Frozenice]

One thought I've had is that MB and MT told Lefebvre to coach the way he did, the MOAR grinders way. When CJ came in the players like Hudon and Scherbak seemed to become better and they began playing the way they should have.
Also, I liked Ott's presence around MacCarron, that was what he needed, someone to show him how to be a man.

 

[NobleSix]

The worst professional coach in NA and I don't think it's even close.

Pure neopotism. Not even the most valiant of MB defenders can defend this one.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The worst professional coach in NA and I don't think it's even close.

Pure neopotism. Not even the most valiant of MB defenders can defend this one.

They're trying, oh how they're trying.

 

[NotProkofievian]

We don't actually know what he's doing, gaiz. He could be just as good as Scotty Bowman and it's all Timmins' fault.

It's like the shadows in Plato's cave. Except there's no prospects coming out of the cave.

 

[habtastic]

god no

 

[Censored Toad]

one step forward , two steps back
That is MB in a nutshell

He got us some offensive talent... and turns around and resigns this POS

MARK YOU MAKE IT SO HARD FOR ME TO LIKE YOU.

actually i hate you. it was easy

 

[BJCOLLINS]

The worst professional coach in NA and I don't think it's even close.

Pure neopotism. Not even the most valiant of MB defenders can defend this one.

This is one of the issues that doesn't add up? MB is always saying "when I wake up everyday my goal is to make the Habs better". How does re-signing Lefebvre make us better??

Lefebvre was given a fair shot and failed miserably? This whole process is like Mikey Terrible part two or MT-lite????

If MB is that hung up with "loyalty" move Lefebvre to a scouting position because player development & coaching is not working!

 

[Goldenhands]

Another example is DLR was a better, more effective player as a newly drafted 18 year old than he is now.
.

Not true, DLR never produced much offensively in the SEL and had a very good second half last year under Lefebvre.. He should make the team next year.

 

[E82]

Surprisingly, I doubt Marc Bergevin would allow Sylvain Lefebvre back right? He can't be that blind. I've realized there are some that will always find a way to soften or stand by Management every chance but very quick to **** on the players. It doesn't matter if Lefebvre is a good coach or not. What matters is that the results haven't been there and if you want to say it's not Sly's fault, he hasnt had good players to work with then why tf has Bergevin not fired Timmins?

 

[Goldenhands]

Can you name me one player that the Habs drafted during the Bergevin era that made the jump from the AHL to the NHL? There's something wrong somewhere.

Andrighetto was an AHL beast, played a bunch of games with the Habs, but at the end the guy wasnt good enough for a top 6 role, ended in Colorado, the worst team in the league where he is having some success but we all know what Ghetto is about, will probably end up in Europe in 2-3 years from now.. Lefebvre also developed Pateryn (not drafted by the Habs but still developed inside the org.), who also played a bunch with the Habs.. I think Lefebvre got the best out of guys like Andrighetto, Pateryn, Hudon, but at the end, he isnt a magician, they are late picks with some limitations..

Can you name me 1 player coached by Lefebvre that blossomed elsewhere after leaving the farm? Busts are going to bust..

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

I guess no one should be surprised. Everyone is trying, thats all MB asks. You dont have to do your job just show up and try.

No NHL prospects? Scouts are great. Lefevre is great. Why no prospects? No answer.

And people wonder why people dislike Bergy

 

[Sterling Archer]

Not true, DLR never produced much offensively in the SEL and had a very good second half last year under Lefebvre.. He should make the team next year.

Never said he produced but he was a much more effective player. He skated and played much more confident when he broke in than in subsequent call ups where he looked slower and less confident. Most people thought he'd be a regular the next year but after extended period of time in the A he dropped and stopped developing almost if not entirely.

He'll never be an offensive threat but he was a superior shut down centreman, now, well it's hard to say.

I feel like rookies who play under Sly are more beaten down and forced to have a grinder mentality/adherence to a system rather than having their confidence boosted and develop their skills. Not sure if that's by design or not but it's obviously not working so the experiment should end and a new coach brought in the develop the PLAYER and not to teach them to adhere to a system.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

The only semi-encouraging aspect that this decision might have is that I recall reading that Sly was coaching Therrien's system to make the transition easier. As we all know, Therrien's system was **** and he had zero clue about tactics. Maybe, and I mean maybe (more like blind optimism on my part), CJ will show him the light and our AHL team might not be so ****.

 

[Brainiac]

Besides the well deserve plethora of insults towards these half-baked, witless, histrionic morons... do we know for sure Lefebvre is officially coming back? Is there even just a 1% chance an NHL team takes a chance on him as an ass-coach*?

*not a typo

 

[vokiel]

The only semi-encouraging aspect that this decision might have is that I recall reading that Sly was coaching Therrien's system to make the transition easier. As we all know, Therrien's system was **** and he had zero clue about tactics. Maybe, and I mean maybe (more like blind optimism on my part), CJ will show him the light and our AHL team might not be so ****.

The farm shouldn't try teaching a specific system anyway. More than half the players there still need development time, plus coaches get fired frequently. They shouldn't waste their time with specific systems, just pick one that make them win and want to progress. It's simple really.

IMHO this is why our development failed and is failing.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

The farm shouldn't try teaching a specific system anyway. More than half the players there still need development time, plus coaches get fired frequently. They shouldn't waste their time with specific systems, just pick one that make them win and want to progress. It's simple really.

IMHO this is why our development failed and is failing.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on that premise but I think there are merits to both philosophies. At the end of the day, the AHL remains a developmental league for bubble prospects.

 

[sheed36]

I feel the problem with MB and I've said this on this board before is that he's still making decisions using his heart instead of his head and that will get him no where except eventually fired.

I read that quote from Lou Lamoriello awhile ago when he said when you're the GM of a team you can't run a team using your heart and instead you need to run things using your head because sometimes hard decisions need to be made to move forward.

It must've really crushed MB to have to fire his good buddy MT but he likely didn't see a way out of doing it since the players seemed like they stopped playing for MT. The decision to fire MT should've come earlier but at least he eventually cut ties with MT and he should probably do the same with Lefebvre.

Just the opinion of some random guy on a hockey discussion board.


Here is the actual quote from Lou Lamoriello from article when he traded Phaneuf to the Sens.

Still, shedding Phaneuf's contract didn't make trading his captain any more palatable for Lamoriello.

"It certainly wasn't easy, that would be an understatement," he said. "Because all of the right things come into place, especially when you've got a quality individual. But unfortunately this is part of the business; you have to separate the person and the player when you make these types of decisions, and you have to make sure that you separate your heart and your head and you have to make the decisions with your head."

https://www.nhl.com/news/dion-phaneuf-traded-by-maple-leafs/c-278534800

 

[Kriss E]

This is how I feel as well. I believe change is needed but I don't believe in finger pointing and the reasons some are coming up with

If you can't even admit that Lefebvre has been terrible...there's a problem.

 

[FerrisRox]

I'm curious how on one hand Charles Hudon is such a good prospect that it was a disaster to not protect him in the Expansion Draft and Bergevin was supposed to trade away a draft pick to ensure that Vegas didn't take him but on the other hand there are no good prospects that have come through the AHL team and no good players have been developed.

How do both of these realities exist simultaenously?

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

If Sly is back as head coach of the Rocket, I will not go watch this team play, and I live 5 minutes from Bell Place.

He's had a pretty talented team for 5 years and showed absolutely nothing.

He is the epitomy of mediocrity and I will not pay monry to see mediocrity.

Our Junior team with so many players who've had so much experience in the big show cannot be that bad.

I could probably do a better job FFS.

 

[Runner77]

Yeah, this is one of Bergevin's obvious weaknesses: His reticence to fire friends. Which of course pairs nicely with the complementary fault of hiring them in the first place. To be fair, every GM hires friends; let's not feign outrage at the bro-mindset on the Habs when almost every GM is guilty of some nepotism. The problem here is the people who've been passed up, like Larry Robinson, and the people who've stuck around like the rotten fish from two Christmases ago, like Lefevbre. I can live with subtle nepotism. It's the blatant kind that kills me.

The NHL's Olde Boys Club has vast, far-reaching and forever tentacles, so to some extent, we must accept that a lot of initial decision-making is not being made on a best available candidates basis. However, once the chosen candidate has had more than a reasonable time to show what he can do, there needs to be a stringent performance review process and action taken where warranted, to bring in a new candidate. The latter part is where the nepotism component becomes the most repugnant. You want to hire your friends? Do it, but then, evaluate their performances objectively and be prepared to admit you were wrong about them when they are not competent. It's as if Bergevin has decided that the latter test can be done without.

 

[Pickles]

You know that under your own criteria, only a handful of players have played at least a full season with Lefebvre, right ? If we're gonna blame Lefebvre for failing to teach, you have to use a sample where he actually taught more than a tryout. Here are the players falling under your criteria:

2012
Charles Hudon, 122OA : Just finished 3rd AHL season

2013
Michael McCarron, 25OA : two AHL seasons, several callups
Jacob De La Rose : three AHL seasons with callups
Sven Andrighetto : two full AHL seasons and two more with callups
Jeremy Gregoire, 176OA : just finished 2nd AHL season after a long CHL stay

2014
Nikita Scherbak, 26OA : Just finished second AHL season
Brett Lernout , 73OA : Just finished 2nd AHL season
Daniel Audette, 147 OA : Just finished first AHL season

It's an awfully small sample, but I have no reason to believe any of these players was significantly mishandled. Do you ?

Understand, I'm not saying Lefebvre is the pinnacle of AHL coaching. I'm just amused that you think he is ruining players.

I'm really pleased with McCarron's progress. Anything Hudon does will be a bonus. The rest I don't really care for but the jury is still out on many of them. Did you expect Lefevbre to turn Gregoire into Max Domi or something ?

The something wrong here is your question.

So essentially what you're saying is that nobody has made the jump from the AHL gotcha. I just don't understand how anyone can defend this guy at this point it's laughable.

 

[Pickles]

Andrighetto was an AHL beast, played a bunch of games with the Habs, but at the end the guy wasnt good enough for a top 6 role, ended in Colorado, the worst team in the league where he is having some success but we all know what Ghetto is about, will probably end up in Europe in 2-3 years from now.. Lefebvre also developed Pateryn (not drafted by the Habs but still developed inside the org.), who also played a bunch with the Habs.. I think Lefebvre got the best out of guys like Andrighetto, Pateryn, Hudon, but at the end, he isnt a magician, they are late picks with some limitations..

Can you name me 1 player coached by Lefebvre that blossomed elsewhere after leaving the farm? Busts are going to bust..

Yep you're right he's not been given great players to work with. I think Timmins is as much to blame as Lefebvre.

 

[Habaneros]

Pretty simple...If ya don't like ? Buy tickets head to Laval and make some noise...It works in Montreal....