Confirmed with Link: Leddy + Witkowski for Sundqvist + Walman + 2nd 2023

[Xerloris]

The biggest problem with this argument is there is no real advanced statistical info I can find that says he actually was good on the Islanders.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB1gL3wN.img?w=768&h=475&m=6

There isn't much evidence Leddy's play really dipped in Detroit, so much as he just happened to move away from a Barry Trotz coached team which always managed to outprodue there advanced statistics. It is true he is good in transition, but that's basically his one real defining skill at this point. The rest of his game isn't good enough, and he's past 30 and multiple years off from his peak already.

We are also in a pickle here. Because let's say he does show up and play well for a stretch. We saw what happened the last time we made a trade to fill a gapping void on D and the player came in and played well for a short amount of time: Army over reacted to a short sample size and committed too much money. So even if he plays well, it miht not end up being good for us past this season, and I don't think this really does anything to get us over the hump into being a true contender.

Hmm... This reads real doom and gloomy, but that wasn't my intention. Basically, I don't despise this trade overall, but I just wish we picked a lane. This is a hedge trade, to me. It feels like Army knew he had to do something to get a LHD brought in no matter what, but the market was very seller heavy, and he decided to not touch the Gio prices, which I can understand. But I also don't see a good road forward either. The value is clearly not very good imo, but we've been surprised before. If the idea is to give us more cap room to get the LHD fix this off-season, then I also don't really buy it. If we get an upgrade there in the off-season it would have been through trade anyway, unless we are all confident going into next season with 37 year old Alex Gologoski as our partner with Colt. So giving up Sunny and a 2nd for Leddy just feels off to me, like Army felt like he had to make a move but ran out of names and this was what he was left with.

I don't think it's fair to compare what happened with Scandella to Leddy. The entire team was in a panic after what happened to Jbo, not just Armstrong.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

For me, it’s all about “wait and find out”. That’s the only evidence that matters.

Then again, I don’t expect him to be here very long, unless he demonstrates his worth.

 

[14ari13]

I think you might be surprised by Leddy. He looked great with Seider. They played together for about 5 games before trade deadline. I think he is capable of doing much better with better line mates.

And nobody knows if Sundquist will ever recover and if he does how long it takes.

 

[Reality Czech]

I think you might be surprised by Leddy. He looked great with Seider. They played together for about 5 games before trade deadline. I think he is capable of doing much better with better line mates.

And nobody knows if Sundquist will ever recover and if he does how long it takes.

Let's hope so. The more I think about the trade, the more it makes sense. NHL GMs value a guy who can play 20+ minutes a night and has played a key role on some pretty good teams. Leddy is certainly not a guy fans would get excited about, but GMs are looking at his overall abilities and experience and not his poor stats this season for a bad team. He may not have been the guy most fans wanted, but he is a competent veteran who should provide more stability from the 6/7 spot than we were getting from Walman. It will be very interesting to see who sits in the press box...Scandella, Mikkola or Bortuzzo. I'm guessing it will change from game to game unless someone separates themselves from the pack. I would expect it to be Bortuzzo sitting most nights, and Scandella/Mikkola should at least be able to hold their own defensively as a 3rd pair.

 

[execwrite1]

Let's hope so. The more I think about the trade, the more it makes sense. NHL GMs value a guy who can play 20+ minutes a night and has played a key role on some pretty good teams. Leddy is certainly not a guy fans would get excited about, but GMs are looking at his overall abilities and experience and not his poor stats this season for a bad team. He may not have been the guy most fans wanted, but he is a competent veteran who should provide more stability from the 6/7 spot than we were getting from Walman. It will be very interesting to see who sits in the press box...Scandella, Mikkola or Bortuzzo. I'm guessing it will change from game to game unless someone separates themselves from the pack. I would expect it to be Bortuzzo sitting most nights, and Scandella/Mikkola should at least be able to hold their own defensively as a 3rd pair.

There's now way Bortuzzo is in the press box. He kills penalties and they need a RHD on the third pair.

 

[Renard]

Sunny was one of my favorite players. He played the game balls out and sustained a lot of injuries as a consequence.

I don't like that we traded him while he is still recovering. Its like a guy dumping his wife for a younger model after the wife has had a few kids, and isn't attractive any more.

 

[Reality Czech]

There's now way Bortuzzo is in the press box. He kills penalties and they need a RHD on the third pair.

It's true that he helps on the PK, but he doesn't provide much at 5-on-5 these days. He's clearly the 7th best D we have, so I wonder if they will play either Mikkola/Scandella on their off side and go with Parayko, Faulk, Mikkola, Scandella on the PK. Guess we will find out tonight.

 

[BlueOil]

not the move desired, but could have been worse.

upgrading walman to leddy is a plus overall. walman really never cut it and just isn't big enough to command the back end. he might work out an nhl career as a bottom pairing player but not on a good team imo.

losing sunny sucks. sunny hasn't been the same in awhile but it still sucks to lose a fan favorite that works hard in the bottom six.

ultimately this only kind of addresses the left side so looking for more this summer

 

[Blanick]

So after taking yesterday off to let myself calm down a bit (I was livid) I think I am ready to offer my analysis of this trade. I am going to break it down by the people involved.

Sundqvist - I think this was the biggest reason I was upset, perhaps irrationally. While I know that Sunny hasn't been quite himself this year and has been banged up a lot I still have a lot of love for the guy. He is the type of heart and soul player that we love in St. Louis and on a personal note having met him a few times just an all around great guy. Seeing him in the winged wheel is going to be really tough for me.

Walman - Honestly this part of the trade doesn't bother me all that much. Krug is locked in for the next several years and he was passed on the depth chart by Mikkola and when healthy Perunovich. He will get more opportunity to develop his game in Detroit.

2nd Rounder - I know Army doesn't want to trade 1st rounders but I am getting a little tired of seeing him trade away 2nd rounders like candy. Don't get me wrong I was happy to pay a 2nd in the Buch trade but this isn't that. The gap between late 1st and 2nd round players is getting smaller and smaller each year and while I want to compete with this current core, I think if we aren't going to go for the big move that we shouldn't be moving early round picks for marginal moves.

Leddy - He just wasn't the type of player that I wanted. I wanted a defender, someone to protect the slot and hopefully galvanize a underperforming defense core. While his zone exits and entries will help I just have a bad feeling that he is going to get caved in when trying to defend our net. It is nothing personal against the player I just don't think he is a big enough upgrade to justify the cost.

Army - I said before that I felt like this was a bit of a panic move and I stand by that. I think he saw other teams making move and felt like he had to do something. Defenders of this move will say this was more about opening up cap space than bringing in a quality defender. If that is true why didn't Army just look to sell Sundqvist at the deadline, as we saw depth players were at a premium this TDL and we could have not only kept our 2nd rounder but perhaps picked up another one to help restock the cupboard.

So this is just my personal feelings on this trade. I might end up being completely wrong but I just don't see how Leddy is the missing piece that propels us past a Calgary or Colorado in the playoffs. Also, how is Scandella still on this team, if Berube plays him over Mikkola because of "veteran presence" I am going to be very upset. Anyway, that is my 2 cents. Hopefully I am wrong and Leddy is the catalyst to help bring us another cup. Meh

 

[AVictoryDive]

So after taking yesterday off to let myself calm down a bit (I was livid) I think I am ready to offer my analysis of this trade. I am going to break it down by the people involved.

Sundqvist - I think this was the biggest reason I was upset, perhaps irrationally. While I know that Sunny hasn't been quite himself this year and has been banged up a lot I still have a lot of love for the guy. He is the type of heart and soul player that we love in St. Louis and on a personal note having met him a few times just an all around great guy. Seeing him in the winged wheel is going to be really tough for me.

Walman - Honestly this part of the trade doesn't bother me all that much. Krug is locked in for the next several years and he was passed on the depth chart by Mikkola and when healthy Perunovich. He will get more opportunity to develop his game in Detroit.

2nd Rounder - I know Army doesn't want to trade 1st rounders but I am getting a little tired of seeing him trade away 2nd rounders like candy. Don't get me wrong I was happy to pay a 2nd in the Buch trade but this isn't that. The gap between late 1st and 2nd round players is getting smaller and smaller each year and while I want to compete with this current core, I think if we aren't going to go for the big move that we shouldn't be moving early round picks for marginal moves.

Leddy - He just wasn't the type of player that I wanted. I wanted a defender, someone to protect the slot and hopefully galvanize a underperforming defense core. While his zone exits and entries will help I just have a bad feeling that he is going to get caved in when trying to defend our net. It is nothing personal against the player I just don't think he is a big enough upgrade to justify the cost.

Army - I said before that I felt like this was a bit of a panic move and I stand by that. I think he saw other teams making move and felt like he had to do something. Defenders of this move will say this was more about opening up cap space than bringing in a quality defender. If that is true why didn't Army just look to sell Sundqvist at the deadline, as we saw depth players were at a premium this TDL and we could have not only kept our 2nd rounder but perhaps picked up another one to help restock the cupboard.

So this is just my personal feelings on this trade. I might end up being completely wrong but I just don't see how Leddy is the missing piece that propels us past a Calgary or Colorado in the playoffs. Also, how is Scandella still on this team, if Berube plays him over Mikkola because of "veteran presence" I am going to be very upset. Anyway, that is my 2 cents. Hopefully I am wrong and Leddy is the catalyst to help bring us another cup. Meh

Yeah a pretty meh trade for me. I’m not at all surprised about leddy coming here. Had that feeling that if we didn’t get one of the big names he’d be the guy we’d acquire.
Going to miss Sunny, but his injuries have hampered this year and possibly the rest of his career. Could have tried to unload him in the off-season but with how his injury is affecting him who knows if he’s be a commodity.
Walman is what he is. A more tools than toolbox kind of play that will give you flashes but will drive you crazy too. He could be a late bloomer but it wasn’t happening here.
Leddy is definitely an upgrade when it comes to moving the puck out of the zone. Hopefully he can find some footing being paired with Parayko but we’ll see. Scandella and Mikkola have been pretty rough lately so hopefully it’s a solid addition

 

[Thallis]

I think salary had to be moved out to fit Leddy. I assume Scandella was the first cap dump Army offered them but they wanted too much to take him.

This would be for the scenario in that we don't acquire Leddy.

Can't always guarantee that. Sunny's health is also in question considering we had to start sitting him a intermittently just so he could handle playing.


I'm fairly optimistic. I always hope for the best and I try not to get to down on the team except for Sanford, f*** that guy.


A new team heading to the playoffs might rejuvenate him enough for a good run here at the end of the season.

If Sundqvist had health issues then we could put him on LTIR and the same effect is had.

 

[ort]

My opinion is that I don't think Leddy is going to really move the needle, so even though this trade isn't catastrophic, at some point just tossing away draft picks has long term effects on your franchise... also, Sundvquist is a favorite of mine, so it super sucks seeing him go.

I'm glad Army didn't make any big moves at the prices higher quality d-men were going for. Yikes.

Sometimes it's okay to do nothing. I don't understand why they always seem to feel like they have to make a trade.

 

[The Note]

My opinion is that I don't think Leddy is going to really move the needle, so even though this trade isn't catastrophic, at some point just tossing away draft picks has long term effects on your franchise... also, Sundvquist is a favorite of mine, so it super sucks seeing him go.

I'm glad Army didn't make any big moves at the prices higher quality d-men were going for. Yikes.

Sometimes it's okay to do nothing. I don't understand why they always seem to feel like they have to make a trade.

Yeah I think this is basically where I stand. I don't think Leddy moves the needle in any appreciable way and it seems like it was more an acknowledgment that the D-corps wasn't up to snuff, but I don't think it's really that much better today. I know the odds of any non-first round pick becoming an impact player are long, but you know how you never have those odds? By trading those picks away. The draft is largely a crapshoot and evaluating and projecting how teenagers will adapt in the league is near impossible. So I would rather have more darts to throw than fewer, particularly when the outcome is a below average rental. I'm not totally against trading picks, of course, but this is a situation where I would have simply not paid any price for Nick Leddy, even if the price was relatively low compared to what else was going on around the league.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

So after taking yesterday off to let myself calm down a bit (I was livid) I think I am ready to offer my analysis of this trade. I am going to break it down by the people involved.

Sundqvist - I think this was the biggest reason I was upset, perhaps irrationally. While I know that Sunny hasn't been quite himself this year and has been banged up a lot I still have a lot of love for the guy. He is the type of heart and soul player that we love in St. Louis and on a personal note having met him a few times just an all around great guy. Seeing him in the winged wheel is going to be really tough for me.

Walman - Honestly this part of the trade doesn't bother me all that much. Krug is locked in for the next several years and he was passed on the depth chart by Mikkola and when healthy Perunovich. He will get more opportunity to develop his game in Detroit.

2nd Rounder - I know Army doesn't want to trade 1st rounders but I am getting a little tired of seeing him trade away 2nd rounders like candy. Don't get me wrong I was happy to pay a 2nd in the Buch trade but this isn't that. The gap between late 1st and 2nd round players is getting smaller and smaller each year and while I want to compete with this current core, I think if we aren't going to go for the big move that we shouldn't be moving early round picks for marginal moves.

Leddy - He just wasn't the type of player that I wanted. I wanted a defender, someone to protect the slot and hopefully galvanize a underperforming defense core. While his zone exits and entries will help I just have a bad feeling that he is going to get caved in when trying to defend our net. It is nothing personal against the player I just don't think he is a big enough upgrade to justify the cost.

Army - I said before that I felt like this was a bit of a panic move and I stand by that. I think he saw other teams making move and felt like he had to do something. Defenders of this move will say this was more about opening up cap space than bringing in a quality defender. If that is true why didn't Army just look to sell Sundqvist at the deadline, as we saw depth players were at a premium this TDL and we could have not only kept our 2nd rounder but perhaps picked up another one to help restock the cupboard.

So this is just my personal feelings on this trade. I might end up being completely wrong but I just don't see how Leddy is the missing piece that propels us past a Calgary or Colorado in the playoffs. Also, how is Scandella still on this team, if Berube plays him over Mikkola because of "veteran presence" I am going to be very upset. Anyway, that is my 2 cents. Hopefully I am wrong and Leddy is the catalyst to help bring us another cup. Meh

He did?

Why do we assume he didn’t try to deal Sundqvist separately? I have a hard time seeing any buyers wanting to give the Blues pure cap relief in return for a depth player that most recently was scratched due to up and down recovery from surgery. If anything was possible, those teams would want something salary-neutral. They’re all at the Cap too.

And really, what would Sundqvist be worth on his own? Not much. The simplicity of already having that Cap space prior to the off-season is probably worth it. Seeing what Armstrong does with that Cap space will tell us if this was the right move.

I love Sundqvist as a player. If he regains his prior form, Detroit got a great steal here. Chances are it won’t happen.

 

[Em etah Eh]

My opinion is that I don't think Leddy is going to really move the needle, so even though this trade isn't catastrophic, at some point just tossing away draft picks has long term effects on your franchise... also, Sundvquist is a favorite of mine, so it super sucks seeing him go.

I'm glad Army didn't make any big moves at the prices higher quality d-men were going for. Yikes.

Sometimes it's okay to do nothing. I don't understand why they always seem to feel like they have to make a trade.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. The type of D that the blues need is a guy that will cost a first or two, plus other stuff. That is what is going to move the needle. So with that in mind, if we ever do get "that guy" the 2nd would have been nice to hold on to since we will be really dry on picks.

The team has a lot of holes and question marks going into next season and didn't really do anything to make a push for it this year. That is fine, if prices were too high, but then don't go and burn a 2nd just to make it look like you did something...

 

[Carolina Blues]

Sunny was one of my favorite players. He played the game balls out and sustained a lot of injuries as a consequence.

I don't like that we traded him while he is still recovering. Its like a guy dumping his wife for a younger model after the wife has had a few kids, and isn't attractive any more.

I liked Sunny's game as much as anyone... unfortunately this is a business... not a marriage

 

[stl76]

I’m starting to come around a bit to Leddy as a player. Clearly not a long term solution, but I think he can be a useful player for the Blues.

Still really sad about losing Sundqvist. I understand the salary implications, but it just doesn’t feel right giving up on him like this. Would be shocked if he doesn’t eventually recover and continue to be a very effective player in Detroit. Wish we could have given him more time to heal. Thanks for everything Sunny, sorry it ended this way

 

[Renard]

I liked Sunny's game as much as anyone... unfortunately this is a business... not a marriage

Did you say that when Petro left?

 

[Blueline2757]

I was angry yesterday and after calming down and sleeping on it. I don't like it but I don't love it either. I'm meh. I don't think it'll move the needle very much in terms of the Blues being contenders. I'm definitely not thrilled.

 

[eibyyz]

Did you say that when Petro left?

I did. Reavo, too. Oshie, yup.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I was angry yesterday and after calming down and sleeping on it. I don't like it but I don't love it either. I'm meh. I don't think it'll move the needle very much in terms of the Blues being contenders. I'm definitely not thrilled.

What do you think they should have done? Given prices paid for players who moved, who would you have rather we acquired at that price?

 

[BlueDream]

What do you think they should have done? Given prices paid for players who moved, who would you have rather we acquired at that price?

For me, Middleton easily. He didn't go for a high price and if you're intent on moving Sundqvist then we could have moved him at anytime (even if it's in the offseason) to recoup whatever we paid for Middleton since his cap hit is so low.

 

[Oberyn]

I think there's an argument to be made that doing nothing would have been preferred to making this trade. I don't see Leddy as being a significant upgrade and he certainly doesn't propel this team's chances at winning the Cup. Losing the 2nd round pick is unfortunate.

In regards to Sundqvist, I've been a fan of him but his play has deteriorated over the past couple years due to his injuries. He's still a serviceable player but it doesn't sound like he's ever been at 100% this season. Will he ever get back to 100%? He's had hip and knee surgeries and is constantly bouncing in and out of the lineup due to setbacks and maintenance, so my faith is not sky high on him ever returning to full form.

Walman's had a lot of opportunities and while I think he's looked much better in his most recent games, I don't see him ever turning into anything more than a bottom pairing defenseman. I've never seen a more trigger happy defenseman that sucks at pulling the trigger. He really struggles with getting pucks through. His skating is definitely an asset though.

All in all, my preferred option would've been to stay put and then look to trade Sundqvist/Scandella in the offseason to clear up some cap space. I don't think this move was necessary in the sense that this team just isn't a true contender. They've been getting outplayed by worse teams on paper and our team defense is just atrocious. The only reason we're still in a playoff spot is because Husso decided to activate god mode for the past month. The 2023 2nd would've been a valuable piece during the offseason if we were looking at a more permanent upgrade (Sanheim, Provorov, etc.).

 

[Thallis]

What do you think they should have done? Given prices paid for players who moved, who would you have rather we acquired at that price?

I would have rather done nothing.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

For me, Middleton easily. He didn't go for a high price and if you're intent on moving Sundqvist then we could have moved him at anytime (even if it's in the offseason) to recoup whatever we paid for Middleton since his cap hit is so low.

Middleton would have made sense, but this is hard one to know what we could have acquired him for because Minny sent over goalie that Sharks seem to think will be at least part of their longterm solution and we don't have anyone with similar contract structure to comp that.

As to whether we could have dealt Sunny for positive value to recoup picks, that feels unlikely given his salary, health, and production.