Confirmed with Link: Leddy + Witkowski for Sundqvist + Walman + 2nd 2023

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I would have rather done nothing.

That is fair.

 

[BlueDream]

Middleton would have made sense, but this is hard one to know what we could have acquired him for because Minny sent over goalie that Sharks seem to think will be at least part of their longterm solution and we don't have anyone with similar contract structure to comp that.

As to whether we could have dealt Sunny for positive value to recoup picks, that feels unlikely given his salary, health, and production.

Fair.

Sundqvist was still on a 30-point pace this season though. I just don't really buy that his value was completely shot. He only has 1 more year left on his contract after this season so I definitely think someone would have taken a chance on him for a decent prospect or pick. But we'll never know.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

He did?

Why do we assume he didn’t try to deal Sundqvist separately? I have a hard time seeing any buyers wanting to give the Blues pure cap relief in return for a depth player that most recently was scratched due to up and down recovery from surgery. If anything was possible, those teams would want something salary-neutral. They’re all at the Cap too.

And really, what would Sundqvist be worth on his own? Not much. The simplicity of already having that Cap space prior to the off-season is probably worth it. Seeing what Armstrong does with that Cap space will tell us if this was the right move.

I love Sundqvist as a player. If he regains his prior form, Detroit got a great steal here. Chances are it won’t happen.

Three points here that resonate with me:

1. Paying for cap relief has become a thing in the NHL.

2. Our cap picture is clearer now that Sunny is gone. We traded him when he had actual value, instead of risking another injury rendering him unmoveable.

3. What Army does with the cap space will tell us part of his thought process.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Pretty much my thoughts as well. The type of D that the blues need is a guy that will cost a first or two, plus other stuff. That is what is going to move the needle. So with that in mind, if we ever do get "that guy" the 2nd would have been nice to hold on to since we will be really dry on picks.

The team has a lot of holes and question marks going into next season and didn't really do anything to make a push for it this year. That is fine, if prices were too high, but then don't go and burn a 2nd just to make it look like you did something...

Couple points here that do not resonate with me:

1. Objectively, this team does NOT have a lot of holes to fill. You think they do, so what are they?

2. I don't like this way of thinking. There might a GM or two out there who will make move just to make a move, but this is not one of them. We now have help on D (perhaps marginal, but better) and we have a little cap space.

 

[Blueline2757]

What do you think they should have done? Given prices paid for players who moved, who would you have rather we acquired at that price?

I rather they did nothing

 

[simon IC]

It isn't just the Leddy trade that irks me, I am more just meh about that. It is the fact that Colorado acquired Manson and Minnesota got Middleton. Both teams improved their defense significantly. I don't think the Blues did.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

It isn't just the Leddy trade that irks me, I am more just meh about that. It is the fact that Colorado acquired Manson and Minnesota got Middleton. Both teams improved their defense significantly. I don't think the Blues did.

Apparently Manson was injured last night, but not sure of the severity. Nothing on the Avs' injury thread, so maybe he's ok.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

It isn't just the Leddy trade that irks me, I am more just meh about that. It is the fact that Colorado acquired Manson and Minnesota got Middleton. Both teams improved their defense significantly. I don't think the Blues did.

I don't really see Middleton as a massive upgrade over Mikkola or Scandella. I would have rather gotten him over Leddy tho. But I wouldn't have traded Husso or Hofer for him at the same time.

Manson is weird because That comparable with have probably been a 2nd and Kostin/Alexandrov from the Blues just to have another top 4 RHD with Parayko and Faulk without actually filling the hole we needed.

Leddy feels like those Butterfly closures you put on your skin until you get to the doctor to actually stitch the wound.

If the Blues did absolutely nothing we'd all be up in arms about us doing nothing. And with it looking like Lindholm forced his way to Boston (like Hall did last year) Chychrun being WAAAAY too expensive (the last rumors I saw they upper their price to Three 1st rounders and a top prospect), and the Blues having no cap space to make a large scale deal, Army did what he thought to be the best thing, a Bandaid until the offseason when he can look at higher priced defenseman that he has the entire offseason to figure out the cap.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

lol

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Again! Schenn with the athleticism.

He pulled a Robb

 

[Em etah Eh]

Couple points here that do not resonate with me:

1. Objectively, this team does NOT have a lot of holes to fill. You think they do, so what are they?

2. I don't like this way of thinking. There might a GM or two out there who will make move just to make a move, but this is not one of them. We now have help on D (perhaps marginal, but better) and we have a little cap space.

Maybe not too many holes but we have a pretty big question mark in goal for next year. I still have faith in Binner, but this year we have a very nice 1-2 punch with how Husso is playing this year. I don’t see how we can afford Husso so our stability in goal is a huge question mark. One of the main reasons I’d want to go for it this year.

We have ROR and Vladi for one more year and who knows what happens with them. Basically our core is flipping over and the big gap at 1D is making it hard to make a final push this year and next.

 

[BlueSeal]

I don't really see Middleton as a massive upgrade over Mikkola or Scandella. I would have rather gotten him over Leddy tho. But I wouldn't have traded Husso or Hofer for him at the same time.

Manson is weird because That comparable with have probably been a 2nd and Kostin/Alexandrov from the Blues just to have another top 4 RHD with Parayko and Faulk without actually filling the hole we needed.

Leddy feels like those Butterfly closures you put on your skin until you get to the doctor to actually stitch the wound.

If the Blues did absolutely nothing we'd all be up in arms about us doing nothing. And with it looking like Lindholm forced his way to Boston (like Hall did last year) Chychrun being WAAAAY too expensive (the last rumors I saw they upper their price to Three 1st rounders and a top prospect), and the Blues having no cap space to make a large scale deal, Army did what he thought to be the best thing, a Bandaid until the offseason when he can look at higher priced defenseman that he has the entire offseason to figure out the cap.

I asked for a top 4 LHD. Army got us one and I think he’s going to be heart and soul for us with how he played tonight. If we can stay healthy and hit a good streak right now, we can be contenders.

I believe in these guys. Lets rock.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Maybe not too many holes but we have a pretty big question mark in goal for next year. I still have faith in Binner, but this year we have a very nice 1-2 punch with how Husso is playing this year. I don’t see how we can afford Husso so our stability in goal is a huge question mark. One of the main reasons I’d want to go for it this year.

We have ROR and Vladi for one more year and who knows what happens with them. Basically our core is flipping over and the big gap at 1D is making it hard to make a final push this year and next.

Perfect!

You nailed it!

You really didn't mean that the Blues have lots of holes to fill.

There are at least two (maybe three) holes to fill. Not a bad situation. I strongly believed that the Blues had a chance at the Cup this season if they acquired the right help. I don't feel the same way now for this season, but if DA can properly configure the team, then we can win next season.

I expect ROR to walk after next season and become the mercenary that he is.

 

[Reality Czech]

So after taking yesterday off to let myself calm down a bit (I was livid) I think I am ready to offer my analysis of this trade. I am going to break it down by the people involved.

Sundqvist - I think this was the biggest reason I was upset, perhaps irrationally. While I know that Sunny hasn't been quite himself this year and has been banged up a lot I still have a lot of love for the guy. He is the type of heart and soul player that we love in St. Louis and on a personal note having met him a few times just an all around great guy. Seeing him in the winged wheel is going to be really tough for me.

Walman - Honestly this part of the trade doesn't bother me all that much. Krug is locked in for the next several years and he was passed on the depth chart by Mikkola and when healthy Perunovich. He will get more opportunity to develop his game in Detroit.

2nd Rounder - I know Army doesn't want to trade 1st rounders but I am getting a little tired of seeing him trade away 2nd rounders like candy. Don't get me wrong I was happy to pay a 2nd in the Buch trade but this isn't that. The gap between late 1st and 2nd round players is getting smaller and smaller each year and while I want to compete with this current core, I think if we aren't going to go for the big move that we shouldn't be moving early round picks for marginal moves.

Leddy - He just wasn't the type of player that I wanted. I wanted a defender, someone to protect the slot and hopefully galvanize a underperforming defense core. While his zone exits and entries will help I just have a bad feeling that he is going to get caved in when trying to defend our net. It is nothing personal against the player I just don't think he is a big enough upgrade to justify the cost.

Army - I said before that I felt like this was a bit of a panic move and I stand by that. I think he saw other teams making move and felt like he had to do something. Defenders of this move will say this was more about opening up cap space than bringing in a quality defender. If that is true why didn't Army just look to sell Sundqvist at the deadline, as we saw depth players were at a premium this TDL and we could have not only kept our 2nd rounder but perhaps picked up another one to help restock the cupboard.

So this is just my personal feelings on this trade. I might end up being completely wrong but I just don't see how Leddy is the missing piece that propels us past a Calgary or Colorado in the playoffs. Also, how is Scandella still on this team, if Berube plays him over Mikkola because of "veteran presence" I am going to be very upset. Anyway, that is my 2 cents. Hopefully I am wrong and Leddy is the catalyst to help bring us another cup. Meh

Definitely get what you're saying, and I agree with much of this. I feel the same about Sundqvist, for example. But one comment that stood out for me is that Leddy isn't the missing piece to propel us past Colorado/Calgary, because I don't think that one player exists. Even adding Lindholm wouldn't have made us better than Colorado on paper, so sometimes you just have to put your best team on the ice and hope for the best. Colorado absolutely has to make a deep run this year, and Minnesota is facing cap hell the next 3 years so they were more desperate to make moves than we currently are.

I don't think Leddy is the guy any of us wanted in a perfect world, but I think it will be beneficial to simply have another reliable, experienced d-man (especially now that Krug might be out awhile). Depth is still important, even if it's not a major, team-changing move. The more I think about it, the more this trade makes sense. Some people may have preferred the Blues to do nothing, but that also sends a bad message to the team. I think Army was determined to get defensive help, even if he had to lower his sights significantly from what most of us hoped for. In a way, I'm happy that he didn't trade a bigger package for someone better considering how much it cost to acquire a mid-pair caliber guy like Leddy.

Despite all the disappointment among Blues fans, I'm still optimistic that the trade will look ok in the long run but we have to see how Army uses his cap space to make that final judgment.

 

[Renard]

More about Sundqvist.

He couldn't crack the lineup in Pittsburgh, so when we acquired him the fans were unimpressed.

In his first season here, he looked like he couldn't score. But I became a big fan because he threw himself in front of slap shots on the penalty kill. What guts!

Over time, he began to score goals. Mostly gritty ones.

In the season playoffs, he was stellar. I particularly remember him getting wiped out by Byfuglin as he went in on goal vs. Winnipeg. Byfuglin
took a penalty, but the Blues score.

Sunny's physical play sparked the team vs Boston.

Well, that's life. Sunny isn't worth his salary anymore, but someone else saw value in him. So he's gone. But what does he do? Does he trash the team? No, he thanks St. Louis! What a guy.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

More about Sundqvist.

He couldn't crack the lineup in Pittsburgh, so when we acquired him the fans were unimpressed.

In his first season here, he looked like he couldn't score. But I became a big fan because he threw himself in front of slap shots on the penalty kill. What guts!

Over time, he began to score goals. Mostly gritty ones.

In the season playoffs, he was stellar. I particularly remember him getting wiped out by Byfuglin as he went in on goal vs. Winnipeg. Byfuglin
took a penalty, but the Blues score.

Sunny's physical play sparked the team vs Boston.

Well, that's life. Sunny isn't worth his salary anymore, but someone else saw value in him. So he's gone. But what does he do? Does he trash the team? No, he thanks St. Louis! What a guy.

People do like playing here.

Ask DP57....third time was a charm....and a cup....

 

[Carolina Blues]

Did you say that when Petro left?

Actually I did... Did I like it? No...

 

[AjaxManifesto]

More about Sundqvist.

He couldn't crack the lineup in Pittsburgh, so when we acquired him the fans were unimpressed.

In his first season here, he looked like he couldn't score. But I became a big fan because he threw himself in front of slap shots on the penalty kill. What guts!

Over time, he began to score goals. Mostly gritty ones.

In the season playoffs, he was stellar. I particularly remember him getting wiped out by Byfuglin as he went in on goal vs. Winnipeg. Byfuglin
took a penalty, but the Blues score.

Sunny's physical play sparked the team vs Boston.

Well, that's life. Sunny isn't worth his salary anymore, but someone else saw value in him. So he's gone. But what does he do? Does he trash the team? No, he thanks St. Louis! What a guy.

People do like playing here.

Ask DP57....third time was a charm....and a cup....

 

[Renard]

I wonder if we get to see Witkowski? Probably not until training camp this summer.

I keep hoping that we discover a guy who can help the defense, no matter how unlikely.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I wonder if we get to see Witkowski? Probably not until training camp this summer.

I keep hoping that we discover a guy who can help the defense, no matter how unlikely.

He's going to be 32 in a week...

 

[Majorityof1]

I wonder if we get to see Witkowski? Probably not until training camp this summer.

I keep hoping that we discover a guy who can help the defense, no matter how unlikely.

He was a warm body to balance the trade, nothing more. Don't get your hopes up that he is ever going to leave the AHL. He couldn't even crack Detroit's lineup this year.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I suspect Witkowski was only part of the trade to balance things out contract wise.

 

[Renard]

He's going to be 32 in a week...

He could be a 32 year old find.

 

[simon IC]

I am liking this trade less and less.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I am liking this trade less and less.

May I ask why exactly?