News Article: Lebreton...UPDATE - Agreement made with NCC.

[JD1]

Well, they need something to turn the buses around. I'm not sure what other options were considered, but safety would be relative to those alternatives not what happened the last 30 years since circumstances have changed.

Not saying they made the right choice here, I honestly don't have an opinion on the matter, however I generally am good with turning circles as I find them more efficient for traffic, and lessen the potential for high speed collisions, but don't like them as a pedestrian, this design seems to address my concern.

We'll see how it turns out,

they held a meeting called a community "consultation". They walked in with a done deal design and presented it to a very hostile audience. Various options were discussed at that meeting. I'd say that they had already locked in on their design and weren't in any way expecting the hostility. People don't like being lied to. I don't think they were very truthful and frankly should have just said "we don't give a f*** what you think" because it at least would have been honest. Anyway, glad my kids don't have walk thru that traffic circle every day

 

[Micklebot]

Sounds like that speed camera is doing some heavy lifting!

Neat. you can look at data on individual cameras on Open Ottawa,

Violations have been trending down since it was installed, and speed limit compliance rates have risen from 79% in March to 98% in the latest data set from Aug.

 

[Relapsing]

Neat. you can look at data on individual cameras on Open Ottawa,

Violations have been trending down since it was installed, and speed limit compliance rates have risen from 79% in March to 98% in the latest data set from Aug.

I reference open Ottawa more than I'd care to admit!

For all the complaining about speed cameras... That one is crushing it.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Neat. you can look at data on individual cameras on Open Ottawa,

Violations have been trending down since it was installed, and speed limit compliance rates have risen from 79% in March to 98% in the latest data set from Aug.

Speed cameras are idiotic and only useful as a cash grab. If safety was the primary concern, we'd have speed average cameras. The only thing speed cameras do are make people slow down at the camera while continuing to speed before and after.

 

[Micklebot]

Speed cameras are idiotic and only useful as a cash grab. If safety was the primary concern, we'd have speed average cameras. The only thing speed cameras do are make people slow down at the camera while continuing to speed before and after.

What is a speed average camera, exactly?

The research still needs to be improved on but there is preliminary evidence that they have reduced accidents and deaths, so maybe the only thing they do is worth it.

 

[DrEasy]

What is a speed average camera, exactly?

The research still needs to be improved on but there is preliminary evidence that they have reduced accidents and deaths, so maybe the only thing they do is worth it.

We need a speed standard deviation camera, complete with a two-tailed student t-test.

 

[Relapsing]

Heaven forbid drivers just don't... Idk... Go over the speed limit?

I immediately assume anyone complaining about fines from speed cameras have had to pay speeding fines because they were driving over the speed limit.

Speed begets fines. Don't want a fine? Let up on the old gas pedal.

 

[BankStreetParade]

What is a speed average camera, exactly?

The research still needs to be improved on but there is preliminary evidence that they have reduced accidents and deaths, so maybe the only thing they do is worth it.

2 cameras posted on the street where you're trying to reduce speed violations. Cameras capture the license plates entering and exiting, process the time difference and calculate the average speed of the car along the entire stretch of the road where the cameras are posted. It prevents people from speeding up to the camera, slowing down in the camera's view and then immediately speeding afterwards.

 

[Stylizer1]

Heaven forbid drivers just don't... Idk... Go over the speed limit?

I immediately assume anyone complaining about fines from speed cameras have had to pay speeding fines because they were driving over the speed limit.

Speed begets fines. Don't want a fine? Let up on the old gas pedal.

Its about artificially lowering speed limits in the name of safety where there were no issue's to begin with. Most of the speed limits around the city make sense, its the ones that don't where they have these camera's that are the problem.

 

[Cosmix]

Exactly this. Many entrepreneurs or business owners I know are already moaning and groaning about not being able to drive their cars there. These are the guys who buy the suites, the Club Bell loges etc. They like to drive in their Gwagun, Bentley, Lamborghini etc. to the games. So, I am sure they have calculated how many suite/season ticket holders would want valet. Simple to do really. Just do a count of how many there are in Valet for the last 5 years would give a good picture. So, at the very least, they will have enough parking for those types. I am good with that.

The team will need more parking than the current quantity of valet parking users. The middle class will NOT be mistreated, as you support!

 

[Relapsing]

Its about artificially lowering speed limits in the name of safety where there were no issue's to begin with. Most of the speed limits around the city make sense, its the ones that don't where they have these camera's that are the problem.

LOL - OK. So you're saying that the City should up the speed limit on some streets because the current limit is too low, causing people to go over the limit, instead of enforcing the current speed limits through the use of these cameras?

Alright, you have any particular examples in mind? Any thoughts as to why the limit is too low?

Now, I'm gonna preface your answer with a few little details.

1) Automated Speed Enforcement (ASE) cameras can't be placed just anywhere. They are only able to be placed in either a) designated school zones or b) community safety zones (which are designated via bylaw), which are areas like: school areas, parks/playgrounds, excessive speeding areas, low speed limit compliance areas, or areas with collision history.

2) School zone enforcement is broadly applied city-wide. From 7am to 6pm, Monday to Friday, all designated school zones have a reduced speed limit whether or not there is an ASE in place.

3) Motorists are provided a 90 day warning prior to a new ASE being installed. If it's on your regular routes, then you've been provided IMO ample warning to adjust your behaviour.

Here's a list of all of the 40 ASE locations in Ottawa.

Of particular note, 34 of these locations are around one or more schools!

Of the 6 non-school locations, we have:

High Speed Locations: 4

Parks: 2

You know what, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not talking about increasing speed limits around schools, because that's just a wild thing to believe. Why risk the lives of kids in those areas?

And surely you don't mean around Mooney's Bay or Brewer Park. Again, because of the whole kids thing.

So I guess the real question here is, which of the 4 High Speed locations do you think warrant an increase in the posted speed limit?

Data: Automated Speed Enforcement | City of Ottawa

 

[Cosmix]

Parking will be there, but to your point, it will be for high income people.

Fewer spots that are much more expensive.

Parking at Scotiabank Place for a Leafs game is $50. It might not be quite as high here, but it won’t be $20 anymore. I’d expect $35-40 for a spot at the building.

I think everyone can agree that no parking would not have worked. But the question that remains is how much parking?

I think some expect close to as many spots as in Kanata, and that’s just not happening.

The average Sens fan who sits in the 300s probably won’t be parking at the building.

Personally, I’m surprised this is such a topic. Why do people want to drive to games anyway? I’d much rather buy overpriced beer than overpriced parking and have a good time.

I remember a had a friend come into town from Chicago one time for a game and told him I’d be driving. His first question was “why would you want to drive?”

The Lebreton Flats area is larger than the Senators arena. Parking will be required for more events than just those at the arena. The parking area(s) need to serve the entire area not just the Senators games at the arena. The parking area will have to serve more people than the "rich".

 

[Golden_Jet]

The team will need more parking than the current quantity of valet parking users. The middle class will NOT be mistreated, as you support!

I know you’re joking but…

They currently have 150 valet spots, it’s more likely the wealthier than middle class are grabbing the few spots, at triple the cost of regular parking.

 

[GCK]

I know you’re joking but…

They currently have 150 valet spots, it’s more likely the wealthier than middle class are grabbing the few spots, at triple the cost of regular parking.

I’m not “rich” but I love valet. It’s usually full but the differential between average parking and valet is worth it.

 

[JD1]

LOL - OK. So you're saying that the City should up the speed limit on some streets because the current limit is too low, causing people to go over the limit, instead of enforcing the current speed limits through the use of these cameras?

Alright, you have any particular examples in mind? Any thoughts as to why the limit is too low?

Now, I'm gonna preface your answer with a few little details.

1) Automated Speed Enforcement (ASE) cameras can't be placed just anywhere. They are only able to be placed in either a) designated school zones or b) community safety zones (which are designated via bylaw), which are areas like: school areas, parks/playgrounds, excessive speeding areas, low speed limit compliance areas, or areas with collision history.

2) School zone enforcement is broadly applied city-wide. From 7am to 6pm, Monday to Friday, all designated school zones have a reduced speed limit whether or not there is an ASE in place.

3) Motorists are provided a 90 day warning prior to a new ASE being installed. If it's on your regular routes, then you've been provided IMO ample warning to adjust your behaviour.

Here's a list of all of the 40 ASE locations in Ottawa.

Of particular note, 34 of these locations are around one or more schools!

Of the 6 non-school locations, we have:

High Speed Locations: 4

Parks: 2

You know what, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not talking about increasing speed limits around schools, because that's just a wild thing to believe. Why risk the lives of kids in those areas?

And surely you don't mean around Mooney's Bay or Brewer Park. Again, because of the whole kids thing.

So I guess the real question here is, which of the 4 High Speed locations do you think warrant an increase in the posted speed limit?

Data: Automated Speed Enforcement | City of Ottawa

Ok. So how many of those areas had actual incidents? I've lived in my neighborhood for over 30 years. There's never been an incident in front of the school where the camera is. Certainly not one that I recall

So, the camera has been in place for about 6 months. What it has done is it's bled roughly 1 million dollars out of this community and put that money in government coffers..

How many pizzas you think weren't ordered? Or date nights given up? Or haircuts skipped? Or worse, kids hungry because 100 bucks had to come out of the grocery budget. It's not a trivial amount of money.

Ottawa's cameras issued 154,000 tickets in the first 5 months of this year. At 100 bucks a ticket, that's 15 million dollars not being spent in the way the people usually spend their disposable income. It's nuts. It's a transfer of money from consumers/business to government. I'm not a government guy. And I resent the ever increasing place of government in the daily lives of citizens. And that's all speed cameras are

 

[Stylizer1]

LOL - OK. So you're saying that the City should up the speed limit on some streets because the current limit is too low, causing people to go over the limit, instead of enforcing the current speed limits through the use of these cameras?

Alright, you have any particular examples in mind? Any thoughts as to why the limit is too low?

Now, I'm gonna preface your answer with a few little details.

1) Automated Speed Enforcement (ASE) cameras can't be placed just anywhere. They are only able to be placed in either a) designated school zones or b) community safety zones (which are designated via bylaw), which are areas like: school areas, parks/playgrounds, excessive speeding areas, low speed limit compliance areas, or areas with collision history.

2) School zone enforcement is broadly applied city-wide. From 7am to 6pm, Monday to Friday, all designated school zones have a reduced speed limit whether or not there is an ASE in place.

3) Motorists are provided a 90 day warning prior to a new ASE being installed. If it's on your regular routes, then you've been provided IMO ample warning to adjust your behaviour.

Here's a list of all of the 40 ASE locations in Ottawa.

Of particular note, 34 of these locations are around one or more schools!

Of the 6 non-school locations, we have:

High Speed Locations: 4

Parks: 2

You know what, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not talking about increasing speed limits around schools, because that's just a wild thing to believe. Why risk the lives of kids in those areas?

And surely you don't mean around Mooney's Bay or Brewer Park. Again, because of the whole kids thing.

So I guess the real question here is, which of the 4 High Speed locations do you think warrant an increase in the posted speed limit?

Data: Automated Speed Enforcement | City of Ottawa

Risking lives? You are making it sound as if kids might be in the middle of the road or something. These are major roadways designed for cars. Pedestrians have sidewalks. As long as people are not j-walking they are at no more risk of injury from a car that is traveling down a road. If that car jumps the curb then you have a way different problem and no speed enforcement would stop that.

Charlemagne Boulevard is a great example. It's a loop that starts and ends on 10th line road. Its a residential street, has 2 schools on it, has no speed camera, and has a posted speed limit of 60km. Wakley Rd which is a major east-west corridor in the south of the city has no schools on it, is not a residential road, has a speed camera, and has a posted speed limit of 50km.

Jeanne D'arc Blvard where the speed limit changes 4 times depending on the time of day in a stretch that is about 2 km long. There are 3 schools on that street and the default speed limit is 60km.

Coming over the 174 you have the first posted speed limit:

Then 100 feet away,the first speed change when the lights are flashing to 40km:

Then about another 100 -150 feet down there is a maximum 40km on school days and time restrictions:

Then about 750 feet further it goes back up to 60kn:

The next posted speed limit is 60kn:

200 feet down back to 40 km when flashing

Then back up to 60km

There is one more 60km sign posted and then just before the high school it drops down to 50km, no flashing light signs.

All within the span of just under 2 kms.

Nothing justifies the yo-yoing of the speed limits on this street. This is not a street kids play on and there are enough lights to cross at. If this road just kept the speed limit at 60 and was strict about breaking it say less than 5 km or get a hefty fine I don't think you would get the negative responses about them. I think most people would be fine driving 60km on most roads.

There are many examples like this all over the city where they don't make sense and is why people consider them speed traps.

 

[Stylizer1]

Ok. So how many of those areas had actual incidents? I've lived in my neighborhood for over 30 years. There's never been an incident in front of the school where the camera is. Certainly not one that I recall

So, the camera has been in place for about 6 months. What it has done is it's bled roughly 1 million dollars out of this community and put that money in government coffers..

How many pizzas you think weren't ordered? Or date nights given up? Or haircuts skipped? Or worse, kids hungry because 100 bucks had to come out of the grocery budget. It's not a trivial amount of money.

Ottawa's cameras issued 154,000 tickets in the first 5 months of this year. At 100 bucks a ticket, that's 15 million dollars not being spent in the way the people usually spend their disposable income. It's nuts. It's a transfer of money from consumers/business to government. I'm not a government guy. And I resent the ever increasing place of government in the daily lives of citizens. And that's all speed cameras are

Its easy to say drop the speed by 10km and you save lives. It always comes down to what we can live with. Until I see hard evidence that these speeds are too high in each specific area it will just be bullshit in my eyes.

 

[Stylizer1]

Also most of those speed cameras in school zones are on 24 hours a day.

 

[JD1]

Risking lives? You are making it sound as if kids might be in the middle of the road or something. These are major roadways designed for cars. Pedestrians have sidewalks. As long as people are not j-walking they are at no more risk of injury from a car that is traveling down a road. If that car jumps the curb then you have a way different problem and no speed enforcement would stop that.

Charlemagne Boulevard is a great example. It's a loop that starts and ends on 10th line road. Its a residential street, has 2 schools on it, has no speed camera, and has a posted speed limit of 60km. Wakley Rd which is a major east-west corridor in the south of the city has no schools on it, is not a residential road, has a speed camera, and has a posted speed limit of 50km.

Jeanne D'arc Blvard where the speed limit changes 4 times depending on the time of day in a stretch that is about a km long. There are 3 schools on that street and the default speed limit is 60km.

Coming over the 174 you have the first posted speed limit:

View attachment 909395

Then 100 feet away,the first speed change when the lights are flashing to 40km:

View attachment 909396

Then about another 100 -150 feet down there is a maximum 40km on school days and time restrictions:


View attachment 909397

Then about 750 feet further it goes back up to 60kn:

View attachment 909399

The next posted speed limit is 60kn:

View attachment 909400

200 feet down back to 40 km when flashing

View attachment 909401

Then back up to 60km

View attachment 909403

There is one more 60km sign posted and then just before the high school it drops down to 50km, no flashing light signs.

View attachment 909408

All within the span of just under 2 kms. This road doesn't even have a speed camera, yet.

Nothing justifies the yo-yoing of the speed limits on this street. This is not a street kids play on and there are enough lights to cross at. If this road just kept the speed limit at 60 and was strict about breaking it say less than 5 km or get a hefty fine I don't think you would get the negative responses about them. I think most people would be fine driving 60km on most roads.

There are many examples like this all over the city where they don't make sense and is why people consider them speed traps.

So Jeanne Darc definitely has a speed camera. It's the camera I was referring to. It was issuing 1500+ a month tickets last time I saw the stats

Your pictures are out of order. In the order you posted them, those signs appear 2,3,1 not 1,2,3. Not that it matters to your point.

You're right, kids don't play on this street. There's sidewalks on both sides. Plenty of street lights to cross the street. There's never been an incident in front of Terry Fox school where it drops to 40 and they have the speed camera. So if there's never been an incident, how is the camera enhancing safety?

And the entire area is torn up to build a roundabout

 

[Stylizer1]

So Jeanne Darc definitely has a speed camera. It's the camera I was referring to. It was issuing 1500+ a month tickets last time I saw the stats

Your pictures are out of order. In the order you posted them, those signs appear 2,3,1 not 1,2,3. Not that it matters to your point.

You're right, kids don't play on this street. There's sidewalks on both sides. Plenty of street lights to cross the street. There's never been an incident in front of Terry Fox school where it drops to 40 and they have the speed camera. So if there's never been an incident, how is the camera enhancing safety?

And the entire area is torn up to build a roundabout

Coming from the 174 they are in order. you can literally each sign in the background on 1,2,3. I forgot about the speed camera there because I don't travel down that road much anymore. I used to live right there.

 

[Masterplan]

I love a good traffic conversation! But why here?

Anyway, the real speed control should and will come in the from Ai traffic light control. Cameras at every intersection will be monitoring traffic volumes and speed. If you're speeding in the future expect every intersection to turn red forcing you to stop. No tickets just a brutal commute.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Parking will be there, but to your point, it will be for high income people.

Fewer spots that are much more expensive.

Parking at Scotiabank Place for a Leafs game is $50. It might not be quite as high here, but it won’t be $20 anymore. I’d expect $35-40 for a spot at the building.

I think everyone can agree that no parking would not have worked. But the question that remains is how much parking?

I think some expect close to as many spots as in Kanata, and that’s just not happening.

The average Sens fan who sits in the 300s probably won’t be parking at the building.

Personally, I’m surprised this is such a topic. Why do people want to drive to games anyway? I’d much rather buy overpriced beer than overpriced parking and have a good time.

I remember a had a friend come into town from Chicago one time for a game and told him I’d be driving. His first question was “why would you want to drive?”

Some of us lower income folks do drive. Coming in from the far east (you know, the boonies with no mass transit), we kind have to. And the park and ride on Trim isn't a guarantee of finding a space. Parking at Place isn't quite the good option it was 10 years ago, either.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

Speed cameras are idiotic and only useful as a cash grab. If safety was the primary concern, we'd have speed average cameras. The only thing speed cameras do are make people slow down at the camera while continuing to speed before and after.

My favorite is the camera on 10th Line Rd. by Sir Wilfred Laurier HS. Traffic lights less than a half a kilometer between it north and south. All I have to do is play the pedal a bit making it look like I'm ready to race at the red light turning green - they burn rubber into the yonder while I gently accelerate appropriately into the school zone.

I've seen at least a dozen camera flashes coming off these encounters, so I'd like to think I've done my part to make the City a safer place for our children. I'm like a real life Batman.

 

[Micklebot]

I love a good traffic conversation! But why here?

Anyway, the real speed control should and will come in the from Ai traffic light control. Cameras at every intersection will be monitoring traffic volumes and speed. If you're speeding in the future expect every intersection to turn red forcing you to stop. No tickets just a brutal commute.

Lol, might lead to people running more reds, but I do like the outside the box thinking

 

[Relapsing]

Its easy to say drop the speed by 10km and you save lives. It always comes down to what we can live with. Until I see hard evidence that these speeds are too high in each specific area it will just be bullshit in my eyes.

Think it's bullshit all you want, but it's your and every other drivers responsibility to obey the rules of the road. That includes posted speed limits.

For all the complaining about speed cameras and tickets, all people need to do to avoid a speeding ticket is to not speed.