News Article: Lebreton...UPDATE - Agreement made with NCC.

[Stylizer1]

The good news is we actually have people who research things like this, and the evidence shows that increasing the penalty is far less effective means of deterring a behaviour than increasing the certainty of being caught. So, if they really want to disincentivize people from speeding, they'd stay away from reading your posts on the subject and stick to the evidence.

Okay, so where is the evidence that shows speed cameras in school zones have accomplished anything other than making money for the province? Actual evidence and not anecdotal. How many lives were saved? How many accidents were prevented? Now balance that out with the profits they have made and show just how it is justifiable. Lets say for arguments sake on a stretch of road where there is a camera in use since it's installment injuries went down by 1 from 3 but that camera made $670,000 on fines, is that justifiable for reducing 1 injury? Now if lowering the speed resulted the number of deaths going from 100 to 70 then that wouldn't even by an argument that $670,000 was worth it. This is what I am getting at.

The good news is we actually have people who research things like this, and the evidence shows that increasing the penalty is far less effective means of deterring a behaviour than increasing the certainty of being caught. So, if they really want to disincentivize people from speeding, they'd stay away from reading your posts on the subject and stick to the evidence.

The bad news is we have dishonest people making decisions that screw things up more. I'm sure Jim Watson had the best minds feeding him info on how to do great things for our city.

A false equivalency is just what I needed for my bingo card, cheers!

You did prove my point.

 

[Micklebot]

Okay, so where is the evidence that shows speed cameras in school zones have accomplished anything other than making money for the province? Actual evidence and not anecdotal. How many lives were saved? How many accidents were prevented? Now balance that out with the profits they have made and show just how it is justifiable. Lets say for arguments sake on a stretch of road where there is a camera in use since it's installment injuries went down by 1 from 3 but that camera made $670,000 on fines, is that justifiable for reducing 1 injury? Now if lowering the speed resulted the number of deaths going from 100 to 70 then that wouldn't even by an argument that $670,000 was worth it. This is what I am getting at.

I've already posted studies on the effectiveness of speed cameras in reducing speeding and accidents. you just don't want to hear it.

People are in full control of whether or not they get a speeding ticket, they just need to change their own behaviour,

Is 670k worth eliminating 2 injuries? I suppose that depends on the severity, if even one of those injuries results in a death or had life altering repercussions, I'd say pretty damn easily yes.

 

[Micklebot]

The bad news is we have dishonest people making decisions that screw things up more. I'm sure Jim Watson had the best minds feeding him info on how to do great things for our city.

Ok, so this is your way of admitting you have no idea what you're talking and are just pulling shit out of your ass? Glad we had this talk.

 

[Stylizer1]

I've already posted studies on the effectiveness of speed cameras in reducing speeding and accidents. you just don't want to hear it.

People are in full control of whether or not they get a speeding ticket, they just need to change their own behaviour,

Is 670k worth eliminating 2 injuries? I suppose that depends on the severity, if even one of those injuries results in a death or had life altering repercussions, I'd say pretty damn easily yes.

You showed studies in general as they related to speed and deaths. You said you could not find specifics because the city does not release those. Ever wonder why? Scrutiny.

The argument has always been what is justifiable. Your argument is the government is my daddy and he keeps me safe.

 

[Micklebot]

You showed studies in general as they related to speed and deaths. You said you could not find specifics because the city does not release those. Ever wonder why? Scrutiny.

The argument has always been what is justifiable. Your argument is the government is my daddy and he keeps me safe.

The city releases numbers on individual cameras, it's all on Open Ottawa, you can go check it out if you like, I also posted news reports that cited specifics about the performance of speed camera;s in ontario

My argument is you pull shit out of your ass and spout it off as facts despite clearly not having a clue about what you are talking about.

 

[Relapsing]

I've already posted studies on the effectiveness of speed cameras in reducing speeding and accidents. you just don't want to hear it.

People are in full control of whether or not they get a speeding ticket, they just need to change their own behaviour,

Is 670k worth eliminating 2 injuries? I suppose that depends on the severity, if even one of those injuries results in a death or had life altering repercussions, I'd say pretty damn easily yes.

Right? Were you the one who referenced open Ottawa data showing an appreciable reduction in speeding violations at one of the ASEs?

 

[Micklebot]

Right? Were you the one who referenced open Ottawa data showing an appreciable reduction in speeding violations at one of the ASEs?

yes.

 

[Stylizer1]

Right? Were you the one who referenced open Ottawa data showing an appreciable reduction in speeding violations at one of the ASEs?

How does that relate to what I am saying? You guys are scratching each others with your right hands

 

[Golden_Jet]

You showed studies in general as they related to speed and deaths. You said you could not find specifics because the city does not release those. Ever wonder why? Scrutiny.

The argument has always been what is justifiable. Your argument is the government is my daddy and he keeps me safe.

Why do you want to speed in school zones?

 

[Stylizer1]

Why do you want to speed in school zones?

That's not the point.

 

[Golden_Jet]

That's not the point.

Ahh just bob and weaving, got it.

 

[Loach]

Are speed cameras going to pay for the arena? If not, make a thread for speed cameras.

 

[Micklebot]

We should get this back on Topic, they should surround the lebreton project with Speed cameras...

 

[Stylizer1]

We should get this back on Topic, they should surround the lebreton project with Speed cameras...

Does it not have to be justifiable first or should the government put them were ever they want so they can make more money?

 

[Micklebot]

Does it not have to be justifiable first or should the government put them were ever they want so they can make more money?

We'll build schools as part of the project.

 

[Cosmix]

I've already posted studies on the effectiveness of speed cameras in reducing speeding and accidents. you just don't want to hear it.

People are in full control of whether or not they get a speeding ticket, they just need to change their own behaviour,

Is 670k worth eliminating 2 injuries? I suppose that depends on the severity, if even one of those injuries results in a death or had life altering repercussions, I'd say pretty damn easily yes.

I suppose if fines do not get the job done sufficiently, then an escalating series of punishments such as license suspension, vehicle confiscation, and/or jail sentence for multiple offences could have an effect.

 

[Relapsing]

We'll build schools as part of the project.

Sounds like a good way to get these bad drivers to take transit to a game instead of incurring a fine because they can't help themselves

 

[JD1]

Are speed cameras going to pay for the arena? If not, make a thread for speed cameras.

brilliant idea Loach!!!

have the city kick in the money it is earning from speed cameras to help build an arena!! i like it.

 

[DackellDuck]

I don’t understand how anyone ever gets a ticket from a speed camera with the amount of “speed camera ahead” signage that’s always posted before you actually pass the camera.

You really have to not be paying attention to get a ticket.

 

[JD1]

I don’t understand how anyone ever gets a ticket from a speed camera with the amount of “speed camera ahead” signage that’s always posted before you actually pass the camera.

You really have to not be paying attention to get a ticket.

Probably a big part of that is how little you need to be over. I got a ticket doing 12 kms over. Prior to the camera, I would have been slowing down traffic driving 12 over. A cop isn't ticketing you for doing 72 in a 60 on a 4 lane road.

 

[Loach]

Probably a big part of that is how little you need to be over. I got a ticket doing 12 kms over. Prior to the camera, I would have been slowing down traffic driving 12 over. A cop isn't ticketing you for doing 72 in a 60 on a 4 lane road.

I got one on highway 7 a few years ago. 125 in a 80. She knocked it down to 97 because that way it was just cash, no points. I use that as a rule. About 15 over and you're good in an 80. The threshhold goes up as the speed limit does. 125 in a 100. But if you do 70 in a 40 you get cooked.

 

[Ice-Tray]

If the goal was truly to stop speeding the courts would be in favor of it. Common sense only applies to the extent the government doesn't enact laws. If everyone speeded 50 km over every speed limit it would either tell the government the limits are too low or they have to increase the fines. Ford has already increased the speed limits on Provincial highways because everyone goes over them.


AI will accomplish that sooner or later.

That’s not how the courts work either.

The courts aren’t “in favour” of things like that. They consider legal issues balanced with laws of the day and precedence.

They also aren’t a separate entity, they are a representative of our collective will, like government.

People are selfish and often need to be protected from themselves, and speeding is a great example of that. Like most things, individuals tend not to care until they speed and kill someone.

 

[mysens]

So what about Lebreton?? Holy thread derail. Good thing the moderator is watching this one closely lol.

 

[Stylizer1]

That’s not how the courts work either.

The courts aren’t “in favour” of things like that. They consider legal issues balanced with laws of the day and precedence.

They also aren’t a separate entity, they are a representative of our collective will, like government.

People are selfish and often need to be protected from themselves, and speeding is a great example of that. Like most things, individuals tend not to care until they speed and kill someone.

The courts determine thresholds. If a bill passes and someone challenges it on what ever grounds they deem to be violated the court will decide. As a society if we thought 1 death was too much for speeding then the courts would uphold the bill. Again it depends on what the threshold society accepts. If 10,000 people a month died from speeding and 100,000 received tickets then the argument could be made and such a bill could be brought forth.

 

[Crosside]

Mods do something