News Article: Lebreton...Interesting...NCC - PART 2

[Stylizer1]

I mean, it's significantly better than Kanata in terms of being central, but yeah, in terms of immediate access to restaurants and bars, it doesn't do the trick, you'd need to hop a train for a couple stops rather than a quick walk if it were downtown.

There was a plan to develop Hurdman much like Lebreton. If they put rink there they will build all around it

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

There was a plan to develop Hurdman much like Lebreton. If they put rink there they will build all around it

If the ownership group decided on Hurdman as the site for an Arena, you would Think they would have the foresight to include an attached Hotel, some bars and a few restaurants as an additional revenue stream year round

 

[Beech]

Are you new to the city? The NCC is trying to reduce the QED to 0 lanes for cars. You'd have a better chance of getting the city to declare the Rideau Centre eminent domain then bulldoze it for a new arena than getting the NCC to expand any of their scenic roadways.

Assen na yo!

Pie in the sky generally confronts reality and reality wins.

A city that is 1,000,000 and growing. It risks its downtown core being vacant, creating US like slums. And now, paves roads once every 30 years. The suburbs are falling apart, no money for road repair.

It is wonderful to wave the flag of ultra idealism and utopianism, but these will be stopped quickly when the reality of a potential cash windfall hits the city.

The NCC said no to Lebreton in the 1990's.. then, they came and wanted it developed, and for a hockey team!!!!

In the end, Utopianism and Machiavellianism will both be drowned out by necessities(ism) and compromises are often reached.

Anyway, I doubt either OSEG or the Sens would ever really work together.. Again, No Larry Tannenbaum to unit.

 

[Knave]

Kanata made sense in the early 90s before the massive growth of technology and the internet. You can now watch at home on a giant screen, you can pause and rewind if you want to check something, you have much more space at home, you get intermission segments, analysis and commentators from the broadcast, etc...

In 1992 there was a much greater willingness to show up to an arena for several games even with a bad drive and to a less developed area where you go to the game and then go home after it. In 2023 that's no longer as true. Now the arena has to be in a convenient location with other things to do so that the Ottawa Senators can attract as large an audience as possible. You need casual fans to fill the building. And it's an easier sell "come downtown for an evening and come to the game too!". When there's 41 home games we're talking about nearly a million people in seats to sell out. In a city of a million. Some will be there every single game because they love the team, they love being live and that's great. But casual fans will be needed.

And this isn't a problem unique to Ottawa. It's a problem facing more and more sports organizations.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I always wonder what people are envisioning when they propose a casino. I always feel like they are suggesting it as a way to slide some free money to the owner on the side hoping he will then spend it on the team.

I always wonder if they are thinking of some Vegas style casino with James Bond types spending big money and where everyone is dressed up.

We have the Albion road and Hull Casinos. Is there so much demand we need a 3rd one? Hard to imagine they can make a business case for building a really huge lavish one. No one loses money on a casino they say but they arent usually built in a small city like Ottawa without enough tourists either. Even Vegas casino owners have suggested gambling is no longer the majority source of the casinos revenue anymore. I just dont see it in Ottawa becoming much more than a dumpy, money losing, beggar for tax breaks.

Vegas casinos are fun. Even Montreal's isnt bad being in a fun spot. I just have a hard time imagining Ottawa as a big time casino city. But i guess the Flats would be the place if they wanted to do it.

Well said. Vegas is about the total package. The Shows, the Strip, the "I was there!" feel and the lights. Pretty much impossible to recreate anything like that in Ottawa. Not to mention online gambling and apps are grabbing a large share of that market these days, as well.

 

[JD1]

I think the downtown experience caters more to younger demographics (no offense, I don't include myself in that either) who are more open to using public transit for a quick hop. No matter what there will be winners and loser in terms of their preferred experience. Hurdman to me seems like a minor improvement, but significantly more accessible to two thirds of Ottawa.

I don't really put a lot of credence in to the accessibility issue.

If your only way to get to the CTC is public transit, attending a Sens game is likely a far bigger affordability issue than an accessibility issue. Sure there are people that can afford to drive don't drive making some form of transit a necessity but that's a small minority of the population.

If that train ran tomorrow from Orleans all the way to the CTC I'd still drive.

Getting to the CTC is a pita, no question. But it's not such a pita that there are large numbers of people that simply won't go because it is a pita

 

[JD1]

With new ownership ticket prices are going up regardless. At least when a new arena arrives, knocking off a thousand seats or so can make room for other amenities that would (hopefully) make a new arena attractive to bigger musical acts. Like, imagine if we had a new downtown entertainment complex this summer...we might've ended up under siege with tens of thousand of those swifty kids (and the money that comes with it)

There's been several articles recently written about why large musical acts are not playing in Canada.

You can't entice swifty to play in front of 50,000 in Skydome. Do you really think a downtown arena versus a suburban arena is the difference between a big act playing Ottawa or not?

They land at the airport. Get in limos that take them to 5 star hotels. Limo it back and forth to the concert facility and then back to the airport.

The economics of playing in Canada are not great. A downtown arena will have virtually zero impact on that

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

I don't really put a lot of credence in to the accessibility issue.

If your only way to get to the CTC is public transit, attending a Sens game is likely a far bigger affordability issue than an accessibility issue. Sure there are people that can afford to drive don't drive making some form of transit a necessity but that's a small minority of the population.

If that train ran tomorrow from Orleans all the way to the CTC I'd still drive.

Getting to the CTC is a pita, no question. But it's not such a pita that there are large numbers of people that simply won't go because it is a pita

Hmmmm, I’m on the opposite side of this. Put the Sens someplace where I can take the LRT to the games, and I’ll instantly go to twice as many games.

Battling the traffic out to Kanata, sitting in that parking lot after the game… man, that is just so painful.

 

[JD1]

Hmmmm, I’m on the opposite side of this. Put the Sens someplace where I can take the LRT to the games, and I’ll instantly go to twice as many games.

Battling the traffic out to Kanata, sitting in that parking lot after the game… man, that is just so painful.

Put the rink downtown where I can hop on the train at 4, grab a burger and a pint before the game and maybe go out after. Sure. I'm with you. But run the train all the way to the CTC. I'm not taking the train to do that just to avoid driving.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Put the rink downtown where I can hop on the train at 4, grab a burger and a pint before the game and maybe go out after. Sure. I'm with you. But run the train all the way to the CTC. I'm not taking the train to do that just to avoid driving.

Yeah, that’s fair. I more or less assume that when we talk about the rink being somewhere accessible by the LRT means it’s also somewhere more central.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

LRT reaching the CTC …. In news articles, in 2018, the projected timeline was 2031…. And now, it’s anyone’s guess… 2041?

Kanata LRT extension would cost $1.85B to build ... someday

An 11-kilometre light-rail extension through Kanata, from Moodie Drive to Hazeldean Road, would cost $1.85 billion, a new report says.

ottawacitizen.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/stittsville-kanata-lrt-phase-3-extension-1.4645214

 

[Cosmix]

I don't really put a lot of credence in to the accessibility issue.

If your only way to get to the CTC is public transit, attending a Sens game is likely a far bigger affordability issue than an accessibility issue. Sure there are people that can afford to drive don't drive making some form of transit a necessity but that's a small minority of the population.

If that train ran tomorrow from Orleans all the way to the CTC I'd still drive.

Getting to the CTC is a pita, no question. But it's not such a pita that there are large numbers of people that simply won't go because it is a pita

I rode the buses to the NHL games in Kanata, getting on at Blair Station. Going to the game was fine as I could get a seat for the entire ride. Returning to Blair via bus was not great as sometimes I would not be able to get a seat. I expect LRT to be similar, perhaps worse. I can definitely see quite a few people who can afford a vehicle and parking to prefer driving their own vehicle to the games. Given the poor design and ongoing issues with our LRT system and trains, I can see crowding occurring on the trains after games.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I rode the buses to the NHL games in Kanata, getting on at Blair Station. Going to the game was fine as I could get a seat for the entire ride. Returning to Blair via bus was not great as sometimes I would not be able to get a seat. I expect LRT to be similar, perhaps worse. I can definitely see quite a few people who can afford a vehicle and parking to prefer driving their own vehicle to the games. Given the poor design and ongoing issues with our LRT system and trains, I can see crowding occurring on the trains after games.

IF the Sens are still playing at the CTC, when the LRT eventually reaches the CTC (2035, 2040) with everyone going in the same direction, it would be crazy.

I still say the new Arena will be built (central location) and operational before the LRT ever reaches the CTC.

 

[Cosmix]

IF the Sens are still playing at the CTC, when the LRT eventually reaches the CTC (2035, 2040) with everyone going in the same direction, it would be crazy.

I still say the new Arena will be built (central location) and operational before the LRT ever reaches the CTC.

Could be. If a new arena is announced and building commences, that could delay the LRT to Kanata.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Could be. If a new arena is announced and building commences, that could delay the LRT to Kanata.

Building downtown would have zero affect on LRT to Kanata. Just like no affect to Orleans, other than 1 phase earlier.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Hmmmm, I’m on the opposite side of this. Put the Sens someplace where I can take the LRT to the games, and I’ll instantly go to twice as many games.

Battling the traffic out to Kanata, sitting in that parking lot after the game… man, that is just so painful.

Yep

I was turning down free weeknight tickets in good seats because of the hassle. Used my SOD money for weekend games.

I live in Westboro, it’s such a pain with the parking nonsense.

If there is ever build on the LRT I will go to a lot more games, maybe even half season tickets

 

[Sun God Nika]

Yep

I was turning down free weeknight tickets in good seats because of the hassle. Used my SOD money for weekend games.

I live in Westboro, it’s such a pain with the parking nonsense.

If there is ever build on the LRT I will go to a lot more games, maybe even half season tickets

man the thought of being in that parking lot after the game right now makes me wanna cry. Its even worse after a loss.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yep

I was turning down free weeknight tickets in good seats because of the hassle. Used my SOD money for weekend games.

I live in Westboro, it’s such a pain with the parking nonsense.

If there is ever build on the LRT I will go to a lot more games, maybe even half season tickets

Never had issues with the parking, Go early , park near the exit, and out in 5 minutes.

 

[JD1]

Never had issues with the parking, Go early , park near the exit, and out in 5 minutes.

Yep. I do the same. And if I can't get there early, I go for a pint at Bert's after the game. Lot is empty by the time you down your pint.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Who was the idiot that decided the entrance/exit roads should be between the Arena and the Parking lots?
How much of the “hassle” are due to the lights/attendants facilitating the pedestrian crossings before and after games, forcing traffic to wait and block people exiting the parking lots….effing crazy

 

[thammias]

Not everyone has the option to arrive early, with work and driving across the city through rush hour traffic.

Hence why a more central location would more ideal

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Never had issues with the parking, Go early , park near the exit, and out in 5 minutes.

Yes, many years ago, would arrive early, and park beside the gate that opened after the game, onto Huntmar…. And head I to get a table at Marshies…at around 4:30 or so, and quickly exit the game to get to car and out of the parking lot…. But it’s not worth the hassle these days….. and your whole day is based around the game…. Give us a central location, assessable by Public transit…

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Tim Bains in Saturday’s Ottawa Sun

 

[GCK]

Tim Bains in Saturday’s Ottawa Sun
View attachment 745644

I like the last line. By saying the city wants it, the NCC wants it…, you are basically saying you expect public funds in some form.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I like the last line. By saying the city wants it, the NCC wants it…, you are basically saying you expect public funds in some form.

Yep he said he expects to be downtown in 5-10 years, or something to that that affect.