News Article: Lebreton...Interesting...NCC - PART 2

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Sun God Nika

Palestine <3.
Apr 22, 2013
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Maybe I am reading too much into it but when saying “the best piece of undeveloped land in North America “ I think Andlauer has his preferred destination in mind .

Bayview yards would likely develop into something too if an arena moves right beside it at Lebreton. Casino would be sick but honestly even something boring like housing would work
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Maybe I am reading too much into it but when saying “the best piece of undeveloped land in North America “ I think Andlauer has his preferred destination in mind .

Bayview yards would likely develop into something too if an arena moves right beside it at Lebreton. Casino would be sick but honestly even something boring like housing would work
Too many progressives on Ottawa City council to get a Casino approved.
Decades ago the Progressives on the Ottawa City council blocked any attempt for a Casino in Ottawa, fear mongering that fathers would become addicted to gambling and their children would end up being for food in the streets….. So Hull built a Casino, and ever since it became the number one tourist designation in the Capital region and Gatineau and the province of Quebec has reaped the benefits from Millions of Ontarian’s patronizing the Hull Casino Over the past few decades
 
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ottawah

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If the new spot has an on/off ramp to the 417 and ample parking its a home run. If its a train only destination, its got large issues. With expansion to Barrhaven and Kanata in doubt, you take out a large majority of the fan base, especially corporate. Its unfarthomable to expect people will drive to a park and ride, hop a bus to get taken to a train station to be shuttled across town to the game, then do it on the way back.

To those that think the East/Central will support the team, remember back to the early 90's when 80% of the attendees were from the west and south even though it was a central location. There is not enough support central/east for an NHL team.
 

starling

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Nov 7, 2010
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Too many progressives on Ottawa City council to get a Casino approved.
Decades ago the Progressives on the Ottawa City council blocked any attempt for a Casino in Ottawa, fear mongering that fathers would become addicted to gambling and their children would end up being for food in the streets….. So Hull built a Casino, and ever since it became the number one tourist designation in the Capital region and Gatineau and the province of Quebec has reaped the benefits from Millions of Ontarian’s patronizing the Hull Casino Over the past few decades
Nah, in 2012 OLG offered to build a casino in the city, City Council voted YES 19-5 to see the proposal, but OLG never made one.

The ball was in their court and they had a good opportunity to build it, but ultimately decided to just expand Rideau-Carleton Casino.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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Nah, in 2012 OLG offered to build a casino in the city, City Council voted YES 19-5 to see the proposal, but OLG never made one.

The ball was in their court and they had a good opportunity to build it, but ultimately decided to just expand Rideau-Carleton Casino.
Thought it was the provincial gov't that blocked that by not authorizing a second gaming zone, anyways, straying to close to politics, either way the decision seems to have been made by groups outside of ottawa so I'll leave it at that
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Nah, in 2012 OLG offered to build a casino in the city, City Council voted YES 19-5 to see the proposal, but OLG never made one.

The ball was in their court and they had a good opportunity to build it, but ultimately decided to just expand Rideau-Carleton Casino.

I’m talking about proposals to build a casino on Sparks Street, many years earlier than your example….

It was in the mid 1990s and was actually approved by the Bob Rae government but, as I said, rejected by the progressive Ottawa city council
 
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Tnuoc Alucard

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In Today’s Sun… yes, Bruce Garrioch

”The way Andlauer looks at this, a downtown arena can't be the sole attraction. Postmedia has reported the groups that sat down with the National Capital Commission during the sale at Lebreton Flats were all looking for more than the seven acres currently available.
That's because in its current state, there would be room for a rink, a hotel and not much else. If the Senators are going go this route, they want it to be a destination where people can also gather on non-game nights to have a meal, maybe do some shopping or catch a movie.
Though Sutcliffe has mentioned several options for a new home for the Senators, sources say the leading contender is Bayview
Yards, which is located just west of Lebreton and north of Scott Street.
The site is approximately 13.5 acres, which is close to double the size of Lebreton. It's well-served by light-rail transit from the east and west, plus it's a transfer station from the south.
Andlauer pointed to the arena district in Edmonton that was built around the 20,000-seat Rogers Place Arena, which opened in Sept. 2016. The Oilers paid approximately $153 million of the more than $600-million arena project in Edmonton while the city fronted the rest of the money.
However, the city is receiving its money back through a rent deal with Oilers owner Darryl Katz, plus a ticket surcharge. Also, $100 million was provided for the project through different levels of government and it would make sense for the Senators to at least explore this route.
The city of Calgary and provincial officials in Alberta recently followed in the footsteps of the Edmonton deal.
The cost of the $1.2-billion project in Cowtown, which includes an arena and a district around it to replace the old Scotiabank Saddledome, calls for $537 million in funding from the city and $300 million from the province, while the Flames owners will chip in $356 million.
The area around the arena in Calgary will include a community rink, along with areas for people to gather indoors and outdoors.”


Andlauer is absolutely correct to point out these two situations, and should expect cooperation with all levels of Government he deals with, in regards with a relocation to the downtown area.
 
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NyQuil

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Though Sutcliffe has mentioned several options for a new home for the Senators, sources say the leading contender is Bayview Yards, which is located just west of Lebreton and north of Scott Street.
The site is approximately 13.5 acres, which is close to double the size of Lebreton. It's well-served by light-rail transit from the east and west, plus it's a transfer station from the south.

Bayview is even more remote than LeBreton.

I drive by it on my way downtown.

There's literally nothing there, which is why it's empty,

Road service is even worse than LeBreton. There is no north-south road at all in the vicinity. Not like Preston or Booth. It's all small, speed controlled residential streets.

The east-west roads are similar to LeBreton, with either Scott Street, which is currently hosting all the east-west bus traffic while the LRT is built, but is still scheduled to not return to four lanes but rather a two lane mixed-use bicycle friendly road (despite already having a split sidewalk with a bike route and walking route on both sides), or the Parkway.
 
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ottawah

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The Oilers paid approximately $153 million of the more than $600-million arena project in Edmonton while the city fronted the rest of the money.
Thats not entirely true ....

Arena:
"The Katz Group is paying $132.5-million. $112.8-million of their contribution will be paid to the City as rent over 35 years, and cover the City’s principal and interest costs. The remaining $19.7-million will be paid as cash."

Winter Garden:
"The Katz Group is paying $31.7-million. $25-million of their contribution will be paid to the City as rent over 35 years, and cover the City’s principal and interest costs. The remaining $6.7 million will be paid in cash."


So up front, the deal was for the Oilers to only pay 26.4M. The city fronted the rest. Now the rent of course would make that up, with interest, and there is the ticket surcharge, but I do feel its important to note the Oilers only had to pony up about 4% of the total cost up front.

 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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Thats not entirely true ....

Arena:
"The Katz Group is paying $132.5-million. $112.8-million of their contribution will be paid to the City as rent over 35 years, and cover the City’s principal and interest costs. The remaining $19.7-million will be paid as cash."

Winter Garden:
"The Katz Group is paying $31.7-million. $25-million of their contribution will be paid to the City as rent over 35 years, and cover the City’s principal and interest costs. The remaining $6.7 million will be paid in cash."


So up front, the deal was for the Oilers to only pay 26.4M. The city fronted the rest. Now the rent of course would make that up, with interest, and there is the ticket surcharge, but I do feel its important to note the Oilers only had to pony up about 4% of the total cost up front.

From what I understood the ticket surcharge is a bit like a loan to the team.

They set it at a rate sufficient to cover preicipal plus interest on 125 mil over 35 years, personally I think that's a very reasonable way for a government to assist an arena build since it's targetted to those that get benefit from the arena,

I think it's fair to consider that as part of the Oilers contribution since it impacts how high they can set ticket prices before fans just stop buying tickets.
 

ottawah

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From what I understood the ticket surcharge is a bit like a loan to the team.

They set it at a rate sufficient to cover preicipal plus interest on 125 mil over 35 years, personally I think that's a very reasonable way for a government to assist an arena build since it's targetted to those that get benefit from the arena,

I think it's fair to consider that as part of the Oilers contribution since it impacts how high they can set ticket prices before fans just stop buying tickets.
I do not think its unreasonable, and a good deal. But the optics of the team only fronting 4% of the deal certainly came under scrutiny. Things go south, its the city holding the bag.

I'd be all for a type of deal like that in Ottawa, but unsure how the general mood of the city would be. Personally I suspect negative, but thats wholly a guess.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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I do not think its unreasonable, and a good deal. But the optics of the team only fronting 4% of the deal certainly came under scrutiny. Things go south, its the city holding the bag.

I'd be all for a type of deal like that in Ottawa, but unsure how the general mood of the city would be. Personally I suspect negative, but thats wholly a guess.
I'm not advocating one way or another, but I do find the deal gets spun to frame it differently depending on who's talking about it. The model of the city building and leasing the arena to the team has advantages and disadvantages, EDM putting 4% upfront on a lease and operations deal isn't the same as if they owned the building like the sens wanted in the original Lebreton attempt. That's not to say I think it's a great deal, I don't feel I'm really qualified to evaluate it tbh, but I do think it's important to be transparent when comparing two very different deals.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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New Arena in Calgary, 70% publicly funded, 30% privately funded.

why wouldn’t Andlauer expect something similar?
 

Golden_Jet

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Sep 21, 2005
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New Arena in Calgary, 70% publicly funded, 30% privately funded.

why wouldn’t Andlauer expect something similar?


Also city of Calgary will own the arena, is the biggest difference.

But ya I don’t think I see the city and province helping that much. In Ottawa
 
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Sun God Nika

Palestine <3.
Apr 22, 2013
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I’m fine with this , if they cut red tape if it’s a whole another approval process I rather they just complete what they are already working on with the NCC. Let’s create another downtown core, byward market already gets a ton of business and it isn’t reimagining the city in any way
 

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