News Article: Lebreton...Interesting...NCC - PART 2

[Beech]

There's around 2 weeks of overlap between the CFL Season and the NHL Season. So, probably not an ideal situation from that perspective alone.

More importantly, the requirements are also completely different and make this idea seemingly impossible. CFL Fields are around 100ft longer and 100ft wider than an NHL rink. Multi-use arenas servicing Basketball and Hockey teams work because the Basketball Court is significantly smaller than an NHL rink. How do you practically make this kind of facility work to allow for relatively quick changes in surface for the overlap period?



Imagine thinking the NIMBYst neighborhood in Ottawa wouldn't shit a brick if someone tried to build a Casino at Landsdowne.

Honestly one of the wildest, pie in the sky ideas I've seen on here.

I was thinking an arena beside the football stadia. Similar to what they do in the States.

Since OSEG also has the 67's and allow the CEBL team there, it would now give them a home, should both teams need a temporary place or a permanent place.. The CEBL may grow, we do not know.

Since Lansdowne Live lost many of their complaints when OSEG was permitted to refurb and rebuild, I struggle to see how they would win any cases in regards to adding an arena. And a Casino is OLG.. The Provinvce.. They won't bother fighting.. They own the courts to begin with.

So, a 10 year, lets see how much time we can waste and how much money goes to lawyers and an arena and casino and football stadia and shopping area, and bar /restaurant area is ready and the biggest.

York, Malhotra and Andlauer really should pay Greenberg and Shenkman a visit.. But something tells me their egos would not fit in any one room. The meeting may have to be held in teh middle of the ocean where there is enough space.

Where is Ottawa's version of Tannenbaum when you need him???

 

[Golden_Jet]

I was thinking an arena beside the football stadia. Similar to what they do in the States.

Since OSEG also has the 67's and allow the CEBL team there, it would now give them a home, should both teams need a temporary place or a permanent place.. The CEBL may grow, we do not know.

Since Lansdowne Live lost many of their complaints when OSEG was permitted to refurb and rebuild, I struggle to see how they would win any cases in regards to adding an arena. And a Casino is OLG.. The Provinvce.. They won't bother fighting.. They own the courts to begin with.

So, a 10 year, lets see how much time we can waste and how much money goes to lawyers and an arena and casino and football stadia and shopping area, and bar /restaurant area is ready and the biggest.

York, Malhotra and Andlauer really should pay Greenberg and Shenkman a visit.. But something tells me their egos would not fit in any one room. The meeting may have to be held in teh middle of the ocean where there is enough space.

Where is Ottawa's version of Tannenbaum when you need him???

Would need 2 rinks, 67s wouldn’t play in an 18,000 seat arena.

 

[Relapsing]

Would need 2 rinks, 67s wouldn’t play in an 18,000 seat arena.

Yep.

The entirety of Landsdowne, including TD Place, the baseball diamond/dog park, and all residential and commercial development is ~48 acres.

Say we remove the residential and commercial development, and decide not to redevelop the baseball diamond/dog park area to the North.

This leaves us with an awkwardly shaped ~21 Acre site to work with:

So lets remove the smaller triangle of land to the East, as it's only about 300-400 ft at it's widest anyways:

Now we're down to 19 Acres!

TD Place alone is ~10 acres of land.

CTC with no parking field is ~5 Acres.

This leaves ~3-4 Acres of land for an additional rink, which is MAYBE enough. Plus park facilities which will definitely be a requirement from the City as the new development is already chewing up available public greenspace.

Oh, and we're going to build a Casino too!!!! Maybe we'll just demolish all that pesky residential and commercial development. Or maybe we can get the Province to approve a Casino and eliminate any remaining greenspace for residents of the area - they totally don't use it anyways.

While we're at it, we'll probably have to knock down the Aberdeen Pavillion to accommodate everything! That will go well, demolishing or moving the oldest rink in which a Stanley Cup was contested.

And thus, we've created a 3 facility sports complex replete with an altar to the gods of avarice and greed, that has no rapid transit connection, in one of the most challenging neighbourhoods to develop anything, all while reducing the quality of life for residents in the area by taking away their greenspace.

Who would say no?!?!

 

[Beech]

Would need 2 rinks, 67s wouldn’t play in an 18,000 seat arena.

the North stands need refurbing. As does the hockey arena below it.

Take advantage of this to redesign with a bigger scope in mind. Refurb the stands and arena and integrate a casino and hotel.

On the East side (away from Bank street and the Condo) build your 19,000 seat arena. Butt up against the stadia to close it partially. It will give a more cozy feel to it.

Below the arena 5-10 K parking. Now total parking is 10-15 K at Landsdown. Perfect.

A huge project, and probably in the 1.3-1.5 billion range. But you have a 30 year lease by OLG for the Casino. The Hotel, an arena, a stadia, bars, restaurants and an area that is now 365 days a year busy.

OSEG puts in 650-750 M, the Sens ownership add 650-750.

And there is a sports/entertainment and gaming empire worth 4-5 billion. And is relatively new. So 30-50 years of life.

Central, scenic and most importantly has: The Greenbergs, The shankmans, the Yorks, The Malhotras... Solid coin, local and committed to service and success.

Anyway, The sale has yet to be finalized. A new arena may be far off.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Hurdman checks all the boxes transit wise but it's still buttf***nowhere as far as fan experience goes. I suppose you could build a few chain restaurants around the place but it's not the same as getting off work, hitting the pub and then walking to the game.

It’s not the same but it’s what a 5-10 min bus ride and still walking distance if you like long walks

 

[Masked]

Is peace between OSEG and Andlauer not a possibility?

Can you imagine a huge arena at Lansdowne.. It would be perfect.

It would be a disaster because it's a horrible idea. Commuting to the Civic Centre was worse than the CTC. A huge arena would have almost twice the capacity and much less parking.

The location is horrific for a sports facility. It's not close to a highway or a rapid transit line. The only reason a stadium and an arena are there is due to historic mistakes along with a too cozy relationship between elected officials and developers.

Assen na yo!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Why would we want an 18-19k seat arena? Why not 16 or 17k? I know the ticket prices would have to jump, but you can also build a new facility with more luxury amenities, and also built with more concerts and other events in mind.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Is peace between OSEG and Andlauer not a possibility?

Can you imagine a huge arena at Lansdowne.. It would be perfect.

A few years later, you add a Casino and you have the largest entertainment/sports district in Canada.

So 10 years of law suits with Landsdown Live and after that build and ride the waive.

Safe to assume egos of both groups are larger than the area of Landsdown and the CTC combined.. or maybe larger than Canada as a whole?

there is not enough room at Landsdowne for both a CFL Stadium and an NHL Arena…. Oh, and Public Transit sucks at Landsdowne…

A new Arena has to either right on, or really close to the LRT.

 

[JD1]

It’s not the same but it’s what a 5-10 min bus ride and still walking distance if you like long walks

We'll, I don't like long walks, doubly so when I've had a few pints and I haven't been on a bus in years

The discussion was about creating a game day experience and to me Hurdman is pretty much as dead as Kanata. I live in Orleans. Obviously I drive to games. Going to Hurdman shortens my commute but my commute doesn't really bother me.

Downtown gets you a pre and post game experience if you want that. Hurdman doesn't really.

 

[JD1]

Why would we want an 18-19k seat arena? Why not 16 or 17k? I know the ticket prices would have to jump, but you can also build a new facility with more luxury amenities, and also built with more concerts and other events in mind.

We've got the cheapest tickets in Canada by far. How do you think this market reacts to tickets going up say 20-25% ? If often costs me pushing 300 to go to a game. If that number starts pushing 400 then at some point people start rethinking it

 

[Micklebot]

We'll, I don't like long walks, doubly so when I've had a few pints and I haven't been on a bus in years

The discussion was about creating a game day experience and to me Hurdman is pretty much as dead as Kanata. I live in Orleans. Obviously I drive to games. Going to Hurdman shortens my commute but my commute doesn't really bother me.

Downtown gets you a pre and post game experience if you want that. Hurdman doesn't really.

I think the downtown experience caters more to younger demographics (no offense, I don't include myself in that either) who are more open to using public transit for a quick hop. No matter what there will be winners and loser in terms of their preferred experience. Hurdman to me seems like a minor improvement, but significantly more accessible to two thirds of Ottawa.

 

[Golden_Jet]

the North stands need refurbing. As does the hockey arena below it.

Take advantage of this to redesign with a bigger scope in mind. Refurb the stands and arena and integrate a casino and hotel.

On the East side (away from Bank street and the Condo) build your 19,000 seat arena. Butt up against the stadia to close it partially. It will give a more cozy feel to it.

Below the arena 5-10 K parking. Now total parking is 10-15 K at Landsdown. Perfect.

A huge project, and probably in the 1.3-1.5 billion range. But you have a 30 year lease by OLG for the Casino. The Hotel, an arena, a stadia, bars, restaurants and an area that is now 365 days a year busy.

OSEG puts in 650-750 M, the Sens ownership add 650-750.

And there is a sports/entertainment and gaming empire worth 4-5 billion. And is relatively new. So 30-50 years of life.

Central, scenic and most importantly has: The Greenbergs, The shankmans, the Yorks, The Malhotras... Solid coin, local and committed to service and success.

Anyway, The sale has yet to be finalized. A new arena may be far off.

Bank street couldn’t handle 10-15k of cars all at once when game ends.

 

[Micklebot]

Bit of an aside, but you can have a stadium that isn't right on transit hubs and still not need massive parking, this video has an example in the first few mins

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

We've got the cheapest tickets in Canada by far. How do you think this market reacts to tickets going up say 20-25% ? If often costs me pushing 300 to go to a game. If that number starts pushing 400 then at some point people start rethinking it

With new ownership ticket prices are going up regardless. At least when a new arena arrives, knocking off a thousand seats or so can make room for other amenities that would (hopefully) make a new arena attractive to bigger musical acts. Like, imagine if we had a new downtown entertainment complex this summer...we might've ended up under siege with tens of thousand of those swifty kids (and the money that comes with it)

 

[ColinM]

Would need 2 rinks, 67s wouldn’t play in an 18,000 seat arena.

They wouldn't need 18 000 but couldn't they design the arena such that 5 to 6 000 are packed into a section close to the ice. They have this arrangement in Winnipeg.

 

[Masked]

Why would we want an 18-19k seat arena? Why not 16 or 17k? I know the ticket prices would have to jump, but you can also build a new facility with more luxury amenities, and also built with more concerts and other events in mind.

Why would you want a smaller rink? You want ticket prices to increase and be harder to get? That just seems stupid to me.

I don't even know what "built with more concerts and other events in mind" means. The main purpose of a new rink is for NHL hockey. Build your rink for hockey fans. The heydays of arena concerts is long over. Band tend to tour the festival scene now and the few acts that have mainstream appeal, which are getting fewer in number as time goes on, tend to play football sized stadiums.

Assen na yo!

 

[sennysensen]

Lansdowne is a terrible location for an NHL arena.

Too far from the highway, no O-train access.

I think they should demolish the Civic Centre / North Side, and just build football stands.

They could save a ton of money playing at the Sens' arena at Lebreton, Hurdman, wherever it ends up. Problem with the CTC was that it's in Kanata. 67s fanbase is downtown, wasn't willing to drive to Kanata. As for 18,000 being too big, if the arena is set up so the upper deck can be curtained off, with say 10,000 in the lower decks, that would work for an OHL arena. Heck, the OHL was successful in Hamilton with its 17,000 seat arena.

It makes no sense for Ottawa to build 2 different hockey arenas at the same time. Way too expensive, and inefficient. How can OSEG afford to build an arena, especially since Lansdowne loses money. Way cheaper to just build outdoor football stands.

The bad blood was between OSEG and Melnyk, so that won't be a problem anymore. Andlauer seems reasonable and agreeable, I'm sure he can work something out with OSEG.

 

[Stylizer1]

They would need to build a sky train in order to make A NHL rink accessible to the numbers of people attending because there just isn't the infrastructure.

 

[ColinM]

Why would you want a smaller rink? You want ticket prices to increase and be harder to get? That just seems stupid to me.

I don't even know what "built with more concerts and other events in mind" means. The main purpose of a new rink is for NHL hockey. Build your rink for hockey fans. The heydays of arena concerts is long over. Band tend to tour the festival scene now and the few acts that have mainstream appeal, which are getting fewer in number as time goes on, tend to play football sized stadiums.

Assen na yo!

Depending on the arena design, a smaller arena would cost less to build and would drive up the price you could charge for tickets due to a smaller supply. Plus the last 4 to 5 rows of tickets tend to generate the least amount of revenue on sold out games.

 

[Beech]

Bank street couldn’t handle 10-15k of cars all at once when game ends.

30-50 years of service life, 3-5 years to plan and build.

So, a fair amount of time to work on things. You have the QE driveway, you can expand it for a Km or two, to link with crossing roads.

You can create connective roads to quickly push cars out in a 360 degree direction off of Bank and QED

You can reduce available parking to 8-9 K and use park and ride concepts as is used by the RedBlacks. The 8-9 K will be ideal for the 67's, BlackJacks, Casino patrons, Bar/restaurant goers.

there are options.

One hub, one central location. All of Ottawa's sports and lager scale entertainment entities in one locale... think of policing, how much easier. Think of Fire department, EMT.

Think of a two prong tourism approach. The Market and Parliament hill, a walk down Elgin/sparks to restaurants and bars and 5-10 minutes later, a second, concentrated tourism center at Landsdown.

Now come winter and winterlude, The Canal.. all linking the two major end points. 3 if you consider Dows lake.

Now spring, the Tulip festival...up the street at Dows lake. Form their onto Landsdown, then Elgin/sparks then the Market..

You set up dedicated transit to collect Dows lake/Preston, to Landsdown, to Elgin/Spark to the Market. You have Bike lanes, Kayak/Canoe, Jogging lanes... tourism boats, water shuttles.

A tourist from the end of the earth can come here, stay at some downtown hotel, kill 1-2 weeks just doing the QE driveway EXPERIENCE. No need for a car.. No need for Ubers 9or some minor need).. One stop tourism.

Heck, Preston is a connector off of Dows Lake, so part of the same trail. You can have shuttle buses taking people teh 10 minute drive to teh train stations where Lebreton is hoped to be.. Still use LRT.. granted, not as extensively.

 

[Beech]

There's around 2 weeks of overlap between the CFL Season and the NHL Season. So, probably not an ideal situation from that perspective alone.

More importantly, the requirements are also completely different and make this idea seemingly impossible. CFL Fields are around 100ft longer and 100ft wider than an NHL rink. Multi-use arenas servicing Basketball and Hockey teams work because the Basketball Court is significantly smaller than an NHL rink. How do you practically make this kind of facility work to allow for relatively quick changes in surface for the overlap period?



Imagine thinking the NIMBYst neighborhood in Ottawa wouldn't shit a brick if someone tried to build a Casino at Landsdowne.

Honestly one of the wildest, pie in the sky ideas I've seen on here.

relapse,

you should be on here just f***ing around!!!! Playing

Do you think, I give a rats ass about making some middle aged white men even richer than they are?

We had a Eugene Melnyk whose dossier is embarrassing. if only half the stories about him are true, he was a bad man.. Now his daughters walk out with 500 M each and still retain 10%.

The OSEG guys, The new Sens owners... rich Dudes, wealth that is generational. I am worried about tomorrow's lunch.

Just play Relapsing..Just play... The arena should be built where it can benefit all of us evenly. So the Indigenous population should benefit. Ottawa residents should benefit and all of us should not be screwed by politicians who give the house away!!!!! Hello Ed Stelmont!!!!

I love this site. I love sports fans.. we cry bloody murder when a guy is not offered an extra $500,000 per year. Most families live on $50,000 per year.. so 10 families would be looked after by the change that we argue over!!!!! And no one F'ng thinks.

I know Mods.. QED, or is it QPD, or QDT.. Luckily for me, no ED....

 

[Masked]

30-50 years of service life, 3-5 years to plan and build.

So, a fair amount of time to work on things. You have the QE driveway, you can expand it for a Km or two, to link with crossing roads.

Are you new to the city? The NCC is trying to reduce the QED to 0 lanes for cars. You'd have a better chance of getting the city to declare the Rideau Centre eminent domain then bulldoze it for a new arena than getting the NCC to expand any of their scenic roadways.

Assen na yo!

 

[GCK]

I think the downtown experience caters more to younger demographics (no offense, I don't include myself in that either) who are more open to using public transit for a quick hop. No matter what there will be winners and loser in terms of their preferred experience. Hurdman to me seems like a minor improvement, but significantly more accessible to two thirds of Ottawa.

Hurd man is no better than Kanata. If it’s downtown or at Lebreton, it will be a much better experience. I’m no where close to young but I’d use public transit if it meant a nice dinner before and a place for some apres game drinks.

 

[Micklebot]

Hurd man is no better than Kanata. If it’s downtown or at Lebreton, it will be a much better experience. I’m no where close to young but I’d use public transit if it meant a nice dinner before and a place for some apres game drinks.

I mean, it's significantly better than Kanata in terms of being central, but yeah, in terms of immediate access to restaurants and bars, it doesn't do the trick, you'd need to hop a train for a couple stops rather than a quick walk if it were downtown.

 

[thinkwild]

I always wonder what people are envisioning when they propose a casino. I always feel like they are suggesting it as a way to slide some free money to the owner on the side hoping he will then spend it on the team.

I always wonder if they are thinking of some Vegas style casino with James Bond types spending big money and where everyone is dressed up.

We have the Albion road and Hull Casinos. Is there so much demand we need a 3rd one? Hard to imagine they can make a business case for building a really huge lavish one. No one loses money on a casino they say but they arent usually built in a small city like Ottawa without enough tourists either. Even Vegas casino owners have suggested gambling is no longer the majority source of the casinos revenue anymore. I just dont see it in Ottawa becoming much more than a dumpy, money losing, beggar for tax breaks.

Vegas casinos are fun. Even Montreal's isnt bad being in a fun spot. I just have a hard time imagining Ottawa as a big time casino city. But i guess the Flats would be the place if they wanted to do it.