Pre-Game Talk: Leafs @ Winnipeg Sat Oct 22nd 7:00pm

[Fogelhund]

Seems Matthews is tired from the physical abuse and that he is quite pleased to see a few players that will have his back this game.

The problem being, these guys will be on the bench being useless, when Matthew’s is on the ice. Guys on the bench are not really deterrents for anything.

 

[TorMapleJays]

The problem being, these guys will be on the bench being useless, when Matthew’s is on the ice. Guys on the bench are not really deterrents for anything.

It’s a you hit my best player I’m going to hit your best player and tell him why he’s getting it.

 

[Leafsfan74]

This is one of the few regular season games I will watch this season. Wife told me Simmonds and Cliffords are in tonight so it's good timing.

I believe the refs in the T.B series took the Leafs away from what I believed was a solid, balanced playoff type lineup. As long as these two guys are here hopefully Keefe finds opportunities to rotate them in. I guarantee the top dogs on this team appreciate their presence/sacrifices and understand the necessity of their game (especially with this particular skill-driven lineup).

 

[Teeder Keon]

 

[Ianturnedbull]

It's about time Keefe/Dubas smartened up and did this. Now you're going to see a dynamic/flowing/intelligent/skilled top 6, and a dynamic/flowing/intelligent/loosely applied knuckle chucking from the bottom 6.

I'm sorry for those that can't stomach this type of thing, but it's hockey.

 

[Fogelhund]

It’s a you hit my best player I’m going to hit your best player and tell him why he’s getting it.

Swell idea in theory. Reality, nah

 

[Ianturnedbull]

View attachment 597539

Engvall?

 

[TorMapleJays]

Swell idea in theory. Reality, nah

You don’t think they have conversations in the room? Happens in baseball all time. No one likes to be drilled.

 

[LaPlante94]

been around about 10 years on these forums now and still the same old. Still complaining about 4th liners and acting like they bring our entire team down. Have they been great? No, but this is probably the 1st time they've all been on a line together where they didn't have a guy who could carry the puck. Probably gonna take some time to adjust. We honestly got guys on the Marlies who would fit that 4th line C role better since Kampf has shown he can handle the 3rd line C role. Lets also ignore the fact that our 1st line has been invisible for most the season now and our defence still doesn't know how to pinch when they got no support. Oh yeah, can't forget about our PP.

 

[IPS]

The problem being, these guys will be on the bench being useless, when Matthew’s is on the ice. Guys on the bench are not really deterrents for anything.

They can deter it by running Winnipeg's players when they get the ice.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

ZAR and NAK should both sit. Make Engvall skate with Simmonds and Clifford and bump Kampf back up to 3c

Robertson Matthews Marner
Bunting Tavares Nylander
Kerfoot Kampf Jarnkrok
Clifford Engvall Simmonds

 

[SeaOfBlue]

You don’t think they have conversations in the room? Happens in baseball all time. No one likes to be drilled.

Except this isn't anything like baseball. A pitcher has to go up against the other team's best regardless of their individual abilities. They can't avoid it. So yes, you will have a reasonable opportunity to drill another team's best player without drastically hurting your chances to win if you decide to go the petty route.

You should not be putting out a 4th line with Clifford and Simmonds on it against any good line if you can avoid it in any shape or form. Doing so is poor coaching and line management.

 

[Leafsfan74]

It’s a you hit my best player I’m going to hit your best player and tell him why he’s getting it.

I've told the story here before but it's worth repeating for context. When the Canucks were playing the Leafs, Sergio Momesso ran Gilmour pretty good, I believe Gilmour was on the ice for a minute or so. If my memory serves me correctly Clark went up to Pavel Bure right after the hit and told Pavel, something to the effect "you tell Sergio if he does that again that will be you on the ice".

Pavel looked at Sergio in his broken English and succinctly told him "Sergio, no more". He listened to Pavel.

I've stated before, I'm not a dinosaur, I prefer speed, skill and the beauty of the game. A clean hit is still gold in my books, but I don't like head hunters or guys trying to hurt others.

That all said, if the league will not protect players, especially talent (and they often don't), you need some players to provide space and a quiet deterrent. When the cat is away the mice will play, well, Simmonds and Clifford are the cat and I don't buy that they can't contribute and make the right decisions while doing their jobs.

 

[Mess]

Name them?

That tweet scares me a lot more than the comments made on Monday. That is a much worse look on Matthews and the rest of the players on this team.

Matthews doesn't want to go through hip replacement surgery after every game.

We saw Leafs star players calling out their coach, and this is Leafs best player Matthews calling out the GM and his team building strategy that sees him and his other top players take endless abuse.

Net result GM's #1 G recruit Murray now already on 10 game LTIR, Adam Gaudette in the minors, Malgin and Aube-Kubel banished to the pressbox, ZAR hanging by a thread.

Game #6 of the season and a major portion of the GM's off-season body of work erased.

Lets see how the GM is reacting to Matthews comments.

 

[Pebble live]

Clifford and Simmonds are bandaid solutions, we need to sack up and spend the assets on getting a Wilson/Jeannot type in the top 6. Dubois landing a dirty hit and Simmonds fighting a 4th liner 3 shifts later doesn't do anything. The only thing that keeps Dubois in line is knowing that Ehlers and Connor are going on LTIR if he tries anything.

This is what I'd like to see happen as well. With the way our cap is structured right now its going to be tough. We either find a way to get rid of JT's hit or move Willy for a more physical player. I don't want to move Willy. I'd rather see Mr Robot go.

 

[Burnie97]

View attachment 597539

Don't worry he won't be out long lol

Seriously though its hard to have 2.5 million sitting on the bench. They said hes a bit off due to the injury he had around training camp.

Hopefully he'll come back and play well. The end of last season he started to prove people wrong it seemed. So far this here he's been pretty ineffective.

 

[KPower]

Give’m hell Simmer

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Clifford and Simmonds are bandaid solutions, we need to sack up and spend the assets on getting a Wilson/Jeannot type in the top 6. Dubois landing a dirty hit and Simmonds fighting a 4th liner 3 shifts later doesn't do anything. The only thing that keeps Dubois in line is knowing that Ehlers and Connor are going on LTIR if he tries anything.

If Matthews doesn't like getting hit hard, why doesn't he hit someone hard? He is a big guy. He can throw a hit. Don't get involved in any petty crap but if you want to make them feel what you feel, then do it.

Or better yet, why doesn't he score some goals? That is the reason he is getting paid after all. Winnipeg has to resort to that crap because they are a worse team. Show why you don't need to resort to it.

There is nothing that any player can do about dirty hits. A guy like Dubois will throw dirty hits regardless of who is in the lineup and then will just turtle as soon as anyone comes after him.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Name them?

That tweet scares me a lot more than the comments made on Monday. That is a much worse look on Matthews and the rest of the players on this team.

"I don't think it's a negative thing to have them in the lineup" is pretty far from an endorsement. He's not going to publicly bash them amd say the team would be better off without them

 

[Martin Skoula]

If Matthews doesn't like getting hit hard, why doesn't he hit someone hard? He is a big guy. He can throw a hit. Don't get involved in any petty crap but if you want to make them feel what you feel, then do it.

Or better yet, why doesn't he score some goals? That is the reason he is getting paid after all. Winnipeg has to resort to that crap because they are a worse team. Show why you don't need to resort to it.

There is nothing that any player can do about dirty hits. A guy like Dubois will throw dirty hits regardless of who is in the lineup and then will just turtle as soon as anyone comes after him.

Yes, fighting Dubois does nothing, but if Dubois is causing their skill players to be retaliated against his own coach will have him on a short leash quickly.

A physical presence with top-6 skill will open up more space for the top line than Bunting does, the intimidation (and hopefully motivating Matthews to throw his weight around more aggressively) is just a bonus.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

"I don't think it's a negative thing to have them in the lineup" is pretty far from an endorsement. He's not going to publicly bash them amd say the team would be better off without them

I was going to say it was one of three things:

- Either Matthews doesn't know a bad player when he sees one. Obviously not.
- He actually believes they need a guy like Simmonds or Clifford in the lineup to bring energy or intensity into this lineup... Which is a major yikes on his part.
- He wasn't going to say anything bad about a pair of likable vets who are clearly over the hill when everyone, including Clifford and Simmonds, knows it.

Also, if we are using the whole "actions speak louder than words" logic as was used in that Marner thread about his comments on Monday, shouldn't players not need to point out that they are not negative players if they are, in fact, not negative players?

 

[PromisedLand]

9th for forwards in hits right now, and it is kind of hilarious the players he is around... it is their only job.

Some other good players who are up there in hits -- Ovechkin, Jeannot, Kane, Tkachuk, but this is who Matthews is tied.

View attachment 597446

This is just one of the reasons why it pisses me off that Matthews is getting called out this season. He is getting dragged down by his linemates who constantly lose puck/board battles and don't win races to the puck. Marner and Bunting have been absolute crap

Matthews is doing all that he can

OMG DADDY CLIFFY IS BACK

Dubas reading my posts?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I was going to say it was one of three things:

- Either Matthews doesn't know a bad player when he sees one. Obviously not.
- He actually believes they need a guy like Simmonds or Clifford in the lineup to bring energy or intensity into this lineup... Which is a major yikes on his part.
- He wasn't going to say anything bad about a pair of likable vets who are clearly over the hill when everyone, including Clifford and Simmonds, knows it.

Also, if we are using the whole "actions speak louder than words" logic as was used in that Marner thread about his comments on Monday, shouldn't players not need to point out that they are not negative players if they are, in fact, not negative players?

Yeah I would hope he doesn't think they actually need them, but I doubt he does. Keefe, on the other hand, definitely thinks they have value as physical deterrents. That's a bit more of an issue, as the bottom 6 looks like shit. I don't even think winnipeg is a physical enough team to even worry about, and if they are then they won't be deterred by some shitty 4th liners

 

[PromisedLand]

My prayers have been answered with Clifford and Simmonds! Thank you Keefe!!

Wish Engvall stayed in and Malgin sat but hey beggars can’t be choosers

Pretty much!!!

Engvall gives you PK and and big body. I would have played Engvall. Malgin doesn't add much to the line up IMO

 

[CanadasTeam]

If Matthews doesn't like getting hit hard, why doesn't he hit someone hard? He is a big guy. He can throw a hit. Don't get involved in any petty crap but if you want to make them feel what you feel, then do it.

Or better yet, why doesn't he score some goals? That is the reason he is getting paid after all. Winnipeg has to resort to that crap because they are a worse team. Show why you don't need to resort to it.

There is nothing that any player can do about dirty hits. A guy like Dubois will throw dirty hits regardless of who is in the lineup and then will just turtle as soon as anyone comes after him.

I'd cut him some slack, Matthews merely getting the "Jordan Rules"-like treatment from other clubs as only way to limit his production.