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Pre-Game Talk: Leafs @ Winnipeg Sat Oct 22nd 7:00pm

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Tarmore said:
I will be very surprised is the Refs don't call Clifford and Simmonds for the most chinsey calls they can, and our 'media' will claim they are good calls.
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Yeah big difference from the broadcasters in other cities, especially in the USA where they stand up for the home team. Aside from the play-by-play I almost throw up every time I have to listen to a Ron Maclean intro which is always one of the hokiest things I've ever heard. Come on, why do we need an intro that includes Elvis, Ali and the Queen before a hockey game? Time for some of these guys to join Don Cherry in retirement. The refs can go with him!
 
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Gilmour1996 said:
Yeah big difference from the broadcasters in other cities, especially in the USA where they stand up for the home team. Aside from the play-by-play I almost throw up every time I have to listen to a Ron Maclean intro which is always one of the hokiest things I've ever heard. Come on, why do we need an intro that includes Elvis, Ali and the Queen before a hockey game? Time for some of these guys to join Don Cherry in retirement. The refs can go with him!
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On a night like tonight I’m more amicable to their neutral BS since this is a nationally broadcasted game and Winnipeg is another Canadian team. However, mid-week regional games where we still get the “don’t say anything positive about the Leafs” schtick is old.
 
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SeaOfBlue said:
The problem is, they were liabilities. The team may have put up that record, but that does not mean Simmonds and Clifford were good. It just means that the rest of the team was excellent, and could have been that much better if we found better regulars than Simmonds and Clifford.
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Is it possible that their presence on the team elevated others game? Had opposition teams thinking twice before taking liberties? Provided some space in the "meta game" (meaning, they don't need to be on the ice with them to have an impact).

I haven't watched this team this year to know, but I can't think that with Simmonds, Clifford and Lyubushkin not in this lineup (now Muzzin injured) that this team is tougher to play against.

They don't need goons, it's nice to know they can stand up and be counted with such players in the lineup. I also prefer they both play together as it ensures they have a wingman to operate by committee if needed.
 
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Ianturnedbull said:
It's about time Keefe/Dubas smartened up and did this. Now you're going to see a dynamic/flowing/intelligent/skilled top 6, and a dynamic/flowing/intelligent/loosely applied knuckle chucking from the bottom 6.

I'm sorry for those that can't stomach this type of thing, but it's hockey.
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What about people who believe there is a physical element to hockey but that these 2 tough guys are washed up?

I don’t think there are many here who wouldn’t love for the Leafs to be tougher to play against but the guys who do that need to be able to play.

IPS said:
They can deter it by running Winnipeg's players when they get the ice.
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Having Simmonds and sometimes Clifford didn’t stop the jets from taking runs at Marner and Matthews the previous 2 years. Why would it start now?
 
Shooter2x said:
Normally I'd be heavily in favor of defending a post like this and id like to say you are 100% correct, but the bottom 6 is so low quality I'd rather just go with a specialist approach even if that specialist approach is low skill goon play. At least it has some semblance of an identity.

Bottom 6 is officially in pick your poison stage. It saddens me I'm not as upset as I should be seeing Simmonds and Clifford back on the 4th line but that's more because it's not worth the energy to complain because alternatives are meh too. Waste energy over a bunch of meh
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It used to be easy getting over being soft because we had identity of blazing fast team that gives you no space.

Identity is a very important concept in hockey. This team stopped focusing on that a while ago.

Skill? Speed? Iq? Size? Equal ratios? Whoever is available for 2 mil or under? I really don't know

Skill they got out the box for new regime so I wouldn't consider it a identity and it only goes 4 forwards deep with potential Robertson becomes 5th
 
I can do a GDT soon or... whoever did it last time can again since Leafs got the W. Don't want to mess with the mojo. I've been warned before.
 
Jamason said:
I just rewatched it. Robertson and Nylander both skating hard and checking players, and JT standing around doing nothing while the opposing center scores.
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You think Nylander was skating hard. Looked like he was poking for a cookie.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
Maybe if it was a goon doing it, but I don't think Winnipeg is benching a top 6 player because he is dirty. We've had back-and-forth spats with Winnipeg before and I don't think us going after their good players really did anything to stop him from doing it.

It is just in their nature. You can't really do anything to stop or prevent it. Just stand up for yourself and kill them on the score sheet. Our good players are more than capable of doing both.
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We mostly only retaliated against Pionk, I don't remember Connor or Ehlers ever getting blowback.
 
Perhaps people are right about Clifford and Wayne. The fact they’re back in a lineup thiugh, maybe it says something about our supposed depth. Honestly, as we sit here now, it doesn’t seem like much of a downgrade really, which is interesting to consider.
 
IPS said:
Clifford and Simmonds were always going to come in with how badly Matthews got abused last game. I know some posters get very triggered over the Leafs being called soft but reality just sucks sometimes.
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The whole league thinks we’re soft, it was brought up again this week on air and the reputation is well entrenched. What a bunch of fans here think really has no bearing on the reality around the league. It‘s so obvious, I can’t believe anyone wastes a post disputing it. We’re a very talented group, but we have an Achilles heel and I don’t want my franchise player having to lay out people to survive in a regular season, that’s a bad outcome in the need. There will be no liberties taken tonight, and unless the other options bring more than vanilla, why not?
 
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Everyone calling us soft is funny you see what happened last year in the playoffs when we started to rough up Tampa
 
Mess said:
Wouldn't it be nice if the team could insert Mason Marchment on the top line beside Matthews and Marner and address both toughness and top line at the same time?
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Yeah. That’s one that got away for sure.
 
Doublerum1975 said:
Everyone calling us soft is funny you see what happened last year in the playoffs when we started to rough up Tampa
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The refs decided that series. None worse than when Simmonds is penalized for gently pushing a player who was in Campbells face and he drops to the ice, gloves covering his head, rolling around like a child. He's back on the bench ready for the next shift as Simmonds found the gate.

It was at this point I started to suspect the refs were going to determine this series. They certainly determined the Leafs lineup decisions after game two, which, I didn't agree with at that time. Who knows if it would have made a difference or not.
 
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Mess said:
Wouldn't it be nice if the team could insert Mason Marchment on the top line beside Matthews and Marner and address both toughness and top line at the same time?
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he gets paid too much, you should know this, you're obsessed with caphits.

also he's overrated and would be slow on that line.

Bunting > Marchment
 
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Leafsfan74 said:
The refs decided that series. None worse than when Simmonds is penalized for gently pushing a player who was in Campbells face and he drops to the ice, gloves covering his head, rolling around like a child. He's back on the bench ready for the next shift as Simmonds found the gate.

It was at this point I started to suspect the refs were going to determine this series. They certainly determined the Leafs lineup decisions after game two, which, I didn't agree with at that time. Who knows if it would have made a difference or not.
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Exactly we are not soft the refs dictated that series and our lineup
 
Mess said:
Wouldn't it be nice if the team could insert Mason Marchment on the top line beside Matthews and Marner and address both toughness and top line at the same time?
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Was thinking that watching the other night. He would have been perfect winger for Matthews.
 
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