Post-Game Talk: Leafs vs. Coyotes - Leading the League in Moral Victories

[hockeywiz542]

Toronto Maple Leafs head coach Mike Babcock addresses the media following Toronto's 4-3 loss to Arizona on Monday night.

[NHL]857353[/NHL]

 

[Menzinger]

I find it amusing, no wait....PATHETIC.... how much praise is being directed at the Leafs despite winning one single game out of eight.

Rather than criticizing players that are awful and not even worthy of dawning a uniform, most are spending their time admiring how high Morgan Rielly jumped to catch a puck...how many spam shots the Leafs are directing towards the net...how Kadri is really "stirring things up"...oh and did I mention how many shots we are taking?

To me it's ridiculous. Come on people.

This is a brutal hockey team and it's about time we started chasing a player or two out of here.

Kessel getting the boot was awesome but it's nigh time a few others are shipped out of here starting with the CAPTAIN.

Let's go Leafs fans!!!!!!

If there is no market for guys like Lupul/Bozak you can hardly blame the current management regime for that. They didn't sign them to their current contracts.

If the team keeps playing as is - ie effective hockey, Babcock may be able to "rehab" the vets on the team so that they can be traded.

 

[JackJ]

Gardiner Phaneuf
Rielly Hunwick
Harrington Corrado

 

[Macman]

This was the first game that reminded me of last season so I turned it off in the second. I can't watch if there's no compete.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Gardiner Phaneuf
Rielly Hunwick
Harrington Corrado

Chichimen for Chychrun.

 

[Pookie]

I know folks are looking for positives.

I know other folks are expecting compete levels to be higher and for the team to win more than once.

Last night's game really didn't offer either side much.

Our best players, Rielly aside, didn't show up until the 3rd. The game was painful to watch through 40. The opposition, without their stars, out worked and outplayed us at home.

Only in the 3rd, did our team bother to show up.

The praise for this seems out of place to me. It's like a 4th quarter touchdown or two with the other team up by many and they are playing a prevent defence.

To outplay a team defending a lead really isn't that big a deal is it? The game was won when we were outshot 11-5 in the 2nd.

 

[SprDaVE]

I thought Kadri had a great game. He played 22 minutes last night and created a lot of chances (with a post or two). He's been getting increasing minutes in the last 6 games too. Rielly also was good for most of the game.

Unfortunately, Reimer couldn't make a couple big saves. Tie that with some big break downs defensively... there you have it.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

"Leading the League in Moral Victories"

 

[al secord]

I had expectations that my fellow Leafs fans would not tolerate winning one game in their first eight so passively.

I guess that was my mistake.

I remember a time when waffles... that's right... WAFFLES!!!!>... were being thrown on the ice when the Leafs were on a skid!

What happened to that competitive spirit, dammit?!

I hear ya, big guy! My expectations of finishing 9th or 10th in the conference are really taking a hit.

Damn you Leafs Fans!

 

[X66]

The only reason the leafs record isnt better is solely because of goaltending. The only game we got good goaltending all season was in Buffalo. Other than that, every other game has been mediocre or worse.

In saying that, it's for the best. Games are more entertaining like this than getting dominated and winning without and direction...

People that can't understand why people are happier about this year's play probably aren't big picture thinkers. It's less than 10 games in on a rebuilding year, and it's gone well.

 

[ULF_55]

If the Leafs played the 1st. 2 periods like it mattered they would have won.

Coyotes been playing every 2 days for a week and play again tonight, 5 games in 8 days, and the Leafs play 2 games a week , Friday and Saturday.

Rielly is 21. That's what top talent looks like at 21. Been a long time since the Leafs had that kind of talent from the draft, maybe 1986 with Vinnie Damphousse.

Now just have to wait for Nylander and gang.

 

[burpsalot]

I know folks are looking for positives.

I know other folks are expecting compete levels to be higher and for the team to win more than once.

Last night's game really didn't offer either side much.

Our best players, Rielly aside, didn't show up until the 3rd. The game was painful to watch through 40. The opposition, without their stars, out worked and outplayed us at home.

Only in the 3rd, did our team bother to show up.

The praise for this seems out of place to me. It's like a 4th quarter touchdown or two with the other team up by many and they are playing a prevent defence.

To outplay a team defending a lead really isn't that big a deal is it? The game was won when we were outshot 11-5 in the 2nd.

Actually, the game was won when the shots were 10-10 & the score was 3-1. That took the life out of the players for the rest of the 2nd. The attempted comeback in the 3rd was a rebirth that ultimately was denied by not controlling a rebound & allowing the 4th.

People can claim what they want but to me, our goalies have let us down to various degrees from the first shot of the year. Neither of them deserve a starting position or millions of dollars salary.

 

[ULF_55]

I know folks are looking for positives.

I know other folks are expecting compete levels to be higher and for the team to win more than once.

Last night's game really didn't offer either side much.

Our best players, Rielly aside, didn't show up until the 3rd. The game was painful to watch through 40. The opposition, without their stars, out worked and outplayed us at home.

Only in the 3rd, did our team bother to show up.

The praise for this seems out of place to me. It's like a 4th quarter touchdown or two with the other team up by many and they are playing a prevent defence.

To outplay a team defending a lead really isn't that big a deal is it? The game was won when we were outshot 11-5 in the 2nd.

Totally agree.

That was Coyotes 4th. road game in a week and after they went up the Leafs got a talking to (speculation) after the 2nd. and came out not wanting to continue to be embarrassed.

Leafs put everything they had at the Coyotes in the 3rd. and came up short.

They should have put that effort in all game.

However, the draft is looking good.

 

[Pookie]

Actually, the game was won when the shots were 10-10 & the score was 3-1. That took the life out of the players for the rest of the 2nd.

That's a literal interpretation of what I said

The second period was the game. The 3-1 goal, the heads that went down after that and the failure to respond to end the period outshot 11-5 (9-3 after that goal) was the killer.

We are on the same page.

As for the goalies… sure but the funny thing about goaltending is that if that game ends 4-3 Leafs, are we talking about the goalies? The narrative switches to "kept them in it"… made a key save… etc. I don't expect many players… goalies included… to be on this roster in 4 years. Rielly is the only untouchable as far as I can see.

 

[Primary Assist]

There is no moral victory if you lose to the Coyotes. Losses are losses. Even a rebuilding team needs to gets some wins, and it doesn't matter how good we think we play or whatever the "advanced" stats say. As Owen Nolan would say, "we have our excuses lined up."

 

[Jack Bauer]

If the Leafs played the 1st. 2 periods like it mattered they would have won.

Coyotes been playing every 2 days for a week and play again tonight, 5 games in 8 days, and the Leafs play 2 games a week , Friday and Saturday.

Rielly is 21. That's what top talent looks like at 21. Been a long time since the Leafs had that kind of talent from the draft, maybe 1986 with Vinnie Damphousse.

Now just have to wait for Nylander and gang.

I may even go with Kaberle in terms of draft picks who at a young age showed a ton of promise.

Schenn was actually ok at 18 but probably peaked at that age due to awful coaching and the ****** team atmosphere he was brought up in.

Rielly excites the hell out of me.

 

[ryno23]

I am waiting for it.
I still can remember everyone blowing a blood vessel when Carlyle said the goaltending was "just okay."





but still not to the level of "Howard was garbage."

not to say that i want anyone to call anyone garbage or whatever, but it will be interesting to see what will happen if the goalie (either Bernier or Reimer) lays a total egg on really stoppable shots, and Babs lays a strip into them.


but i said it in the gdt... you can sort of hear the frustration. i wonder when Babs is gonna blow.

I don't see that type of media blow up as management has come out and said we suck this year and rebuilding so the media can't go out and create BS.

If anything the media will pester BABS about coming to Toronto and he obviously didn't think the job would be so tough. I have my money on Babs taking the media to task and him winning that battle. He has lots of Pat Quinn in him and Quinn didn't lose too many media battles.

 

[I Am The Stig]

I'm a firm believer that you have to get worse in order to get better and right now that's what the Leafs are doing. I think this is the time when you can start weeding out players who won't fit in with this team and you can now evaluate what pieces you need moving forward and what pieces you need to acquire to be competitive and that starts at the net on out.

 

[Jack Bauer]

i am going to ask a legitimate question.

every goaltender allows bad or questionable goals every night?

i personally feel, and this is just me, people are not expecting Bernier or Reimer (choose your goalie, i'm not going down that road) - to be Vezina winning goaltending, and I think it's evident that they're going to get more losses than wins this season, but i think it's the bad/questionable goals (and the timing of them), is what is irritating . I would hope that people would be reasonable enough to separate the the two.

Absolutely.

Look at Pacioretty's goals against us. Those goals kill a team.

Sometimes how a goal is scored means a lot more to a team then the fact it went in. A bad goal completely sucks the life out of a team.

 

[ULF_55]

You do realize every goaltender allows bad or questionable goals? If Bernier were able to put up .929 every night he'd be a Vezina candidate and a winner some years. Expectations are way too high for our goaltenders, no wonder the Leafs are a goalie graveyard with all the pressure they face.

The only game this year where I can say he was bad was the Detroit game honestly. Even though he allowed 5 vs Montreal, he faced a decent amount of quality chances in that game including three breakaways, and stopped all of them.

But whatever, you and others can continue with your agenda pushing that a goalie must be nothing short of excellent every night.

If you read the commentary about how bad the Canadiens are you shouldn't suggest they had quality chances!

In the Montreal GDT the Canadiens are all Price, and nothing else.

So to suggest the Canadiens have players capable of producing quality attacks contradicts the agenda.

The thing is good goalies don't let in bad goals continuously, regardless of how many shots they stop after the gaff.

Allow a bad goal or two to get the team down and then close the door? That's not a good goalie, but the Leafs save percentage, 39th. Bernier, 52nd. Reimer is reflective of how they are playing.

Keep in mind, neither of them are prospects.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I'm a firm believer that you have to get worse in order to get better and right now that's what the Leafs are doing. I think this is the time when you can start weeding out players who won't fit in with this team and you can now evaluate what pieces you need moving forward and what pieces you need to acquire to be competitive and that starts at the net on out.

Definitely. We're still only in year 2 under Shanahan who is preaching absolute patience.

Lots of growing pains to come before this thing gets better.

Want to feel good about this team? Go look at how well the Marlies are doing.

 

[TMLegend]

i am going to ask a legitimate question.

every goaltender allows bad or questionable goals every night?

i personally feel, and this is just me, people are not expecting Bernier or Reimer (choose your goalie, i'm not going down that road) - to be Vezina winning goaltending, and I think it's evident that they're going to get more losses than wins this season, but i think it's the bad/questionable goals (and the timing of them), is what is irritating . I would hope that people would be reasonable enough to separate the the two.

Pretty much yeah. Look at the third goal Mike Smith allowed last night. A shot from the point with a partial screen in front. Was that a weak/questionable goal? Or is it only a weak goal when it's against Bernier/Reimer?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Exactly.

I don't think anyone expects perfect goaltending or Carey Price level of excellence in net here. But look at some of the goals that went in over the last 2 games and throughout the season. It's been really bad and wildly inconsistent.

No one is blaming the goaltenders for losing us every game, but they also haven't given the Leafs very much to work with. It's a 2 way street. Both of these guys think they are starters in the NHL but they haven't shown any of that. #1 goaltenders don't consistently give up weak goals game to game.

When your goaltenders are out the top 30 in almost every goaltending stat, I think it's safe to say they haven't been good at all even with the crappy NHL team infront of them.

We're not there, at least not yet. At the moment, Bernier ranks 25th in SV%. If there are 30 #1 goalies, then by those numbers he's a #1 albeit a low end #1. It

Just relax everybody. We're not even 10 games into the season.

Editing to add - I may have misread, if you meant as a team out of the top 30 then you're probably right, I haven't looked it up. I'm not giving up on Bernier though, I guess that's my main point. There should be zero rush here to throw him under the proverbial bus.

 

[Jack Bauer]

If you read the commentary about how bad the Canadiens are you shouldn't suggest they had quality chances!

In the Montreal GDT the Canadiens are all Price, and nothing else.

So to suggest the Canadiens have players capable of producing quality attacks contradicts the agenda.

The thing is good goalies don't let in bad goals continuously, regardless of how many shots they stop after the gaff.

Allow a bad goal or two to get the team down and then close the door? That's not a good goalie, but the Leafs save percentage, 39th. Bernier, 52nd. Reimer is reflective of how they are playing.

Keep in mind, neither of them are prospects.

I know I actually thought goaltending was going to be a strength this season.

2 veteran guys who want a #1 job just 1 and 2 years from free agency...thought that would bring out the best in both. Especially on a team without Kessel looking to tighten things up.

 

[SprDaVE]

We're not there, at least not yet. At the moment, Bernier ranks 25th in SV%. If there are 30 #1 goalies, then by those numbers he's a #1 albeit a low end #1. It

Just relax everybody. We're not even 10 games into the season.

I did say "almost". (and I did mean as a team and individually)

I'm very relaxed, personally. I'm just pointing out that the goaltending has been, to be put it mildly, sub-par so far this season.

Again, this isn't the reason why the Leafs have only one win, but it's a reason why.