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Confirmed with Link: Leafs trade Beck, Finn, Gibson, Nilsson and Verhaeghe for Grabner

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JustAShadow said:
I'm seeing a lot of unlikely conclusions reading this thread.

Grabner isn't a good player right now. This is a dump for contract flexibility. Even when he was scoring a few years ago he was still a soft perimeter guy playing the wing with a young star center.

One of the 3 PTO's will be lucky to get a contract as there are already 13 NHL forwards on the Leafs' roster. This doesn't count a prospect like Nylander or Brown possibly taking a spot.
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I think Leafs really wanted to have spots opened for the waiver season that starts next week. Once teams start waiving players there will likely be a few gems available that teams really don't want to lose, but just can't keep on their roster. With their standings last year & now 5 open contracts, the Leafs are in a very good position to make a few free steals of other teams top non-exempt prospects.

I doubt the PTO's will be the target to get signed, unless they blow them away.

I was previously concerned with the Leafs lack of contracts spots open. They have fixed that with helping NYI alleviate some cap room & add a few lower level prospects. Each team did the other a favour.
 
Swayze said:
Exactly

I don't get why he still has a job and is so revered around here.
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Revered... I feel like I'm one of the few that doesn't dislike him.

Every single scout got evaluated based on their rankings in previous years. Most of them got canned because of those evaluations, Morrison didn't. The logical conclusion would be that his personal input has been good enough, it just hasn't resulted in the Leafs making good picks.

In my opinion, people want Morrison as a scapegoat for our scouting failures.
 
Nithoniniel said:
Revered... I feel like I'm one of the few that doesn't dislike him.

Every single scout got evaluated based on their rankings in previous years. Most of them got canned because of those evaluations, Morrison didn't. The logical conclusion would be that his personal input has been good enough, it just hasn't resulted in the Leafs making good picks.

In my opinion, people want Morrison as a scapegoat for our scouting failures.
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I agree - his scouting seemed to change from draft to draft, and always mirrored the personality of the GM at the time (Burke = Truculence (Biggs) / Nonis = safe (Gauthier) / Shanny = skill (Nylander) )

That tells me he was executing on the plan he was told to - not that the players he picked were necessarily his choices. It's tough to judge without knowing how things went down at and leading up to the draft table.
 
Guy Boucher said:
Hunter audited all the scouts. The fact they kept him around must mean he has some value and it's very possible his suggestions were neglected by past management.
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Or Dave Morrison has friends in higher places than Brendan Shanahan.

Pro scouting is very different than amateur scouting. It's important nonetheless but let's face it the Leafs are now loaded with analytics people doing a big part of their pro scouting in spreadsheets and databases.
 
This was a fantastic trade for us and our playoffs hopes.

Grabner brings it big. He looks the part, looks like the killer squad... is one of the better penalty killers in the league. Is the fastest one, fast as kessel, even faster than the fat one.... he really brings those special elements. Quick and PK. Does it big. We got the best player.
 
JustAShadow said:
Or Dave Morrison has friends in higher places than Brendan Shanahan.

Pro scouting is very different than amateur scouting. It's important nonetheless but let's face it the Leafs are now loaded with analytics people doing a big part of their pro scouting in spreadsheets and databases.
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Do you really think that is the logical conclusion here? Seems rather tinfoil-y to me, especially following what Drew wrote.
 
Drew75 said:
I agree - his scouting seemed to change from draft to draft, and always mirrored the personality of the GM at the time (Burke = Truculence (Biggs) / Nonis = safe (Gauthier) / Shanny = skill (Nylander) )

That tells me he was executing on the plan he was told to - not that the players he picked were necessarily his choices. It's tough to judge without knowing how things went down at and leading up to the draft table.
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Burke also drafted Rielly and Kadri. I don't think its fair to just say he was a truculence advocate.

Morrison was asked to find the most skilled guy in 2014 by Shanahan. I think his pick of Nylander is a good reason why he is still with the Leafs. As were his picks of Rielly and Connor Brown.

I already mentioned this in this thread. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1910371

Morrison is not half as bad as some make him out to be here.
 
The Mentalist said:
I have no problem with letting time tell the story. I have great confidence in Babcock and Lamoriello. Also I have confidence some of our younger players. Rielly and Nylander are going to force their ways into key roles for this line up. Couple that with some smart signings, the Grabner deal, and maybe more to come. This team will be a lot better this year.
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I think you are off about Nylander for this year, he will be a key player in a deep Marlies playoff run IMO. Morgan I am inclined to agree, I could see him ending the season on the top pairing.

I think the team will be better defensively but will struggle to score. A lot depends on Kadri.
 
The Mentalist said:
Burke also drafted Rielly and Kadri. I don't think its fair to just say he was a truculence advocate.

Morrison was asked to find the most skilled guy in 2014 by Shanahan. I think his pick of Nylander is a good reason why he is still with the Leafs. As were his picks of Rielly and Connor Brown.

I already mentioned this in this thread. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1910371

Morrison is not half as bad as some make him out to be here.
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Agree mate. bc if Morrison is really bad, he would been gone like the others by now.
 
LordRamsay said:
The opinion that Verhaege > Gauthier? Yes, extreme minority.
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Gauthier has a low ceiling, but could be a Brian Boyle. Verhaeghe seems like a long, long shot just to be a Matt Stajan style bottom six forward with no obvious strength.
 
Do you guys really think that Leafs will be in a lot of 3 on 3 OT? Bc as much as I hate to admit, I don't think the Leafs will be in a lot of OT situations.

I think if Bernier or Reimer have a good year, the Leafs will be better than last year, but not playoff team. Pretty much every team except for Boston and NJ got better than last year in the East. Even with a lesser Boston, I will still take them over the Leafs for a playoff spot next season. Columbus will probably be fighting the last playoff spot with Ottawa and The Wings. Just don't see Leafs being there.

True that only really Phil is gone, but compare to last year opening roster, Franson, Clarkson and Santa are also no longer with the team.

Lastly, the Leafs will be trading out their pending UFA as long as they have a good deal regardless of their positions, unless they are first in their division. A position I doubt they would be in come TDL.

Personally, I actually see the Leafs trading out their UFA he moment they are doing good.
 
Grabner's not particularly impactful, but he's a fast skater and can rag the puck for a time. I think he's that middle ground between a Jason Blake and a Mikhail Grabovski. Fills that kind of role.
 
TBH everyone calling Gauthier "safe" as a pick is in need of a rewind. He was coming off his rookie season after a heavy recruitment from Rimouski. He posted JUST under a PPG (60 pts in 62 GP) in a new league and produced very well given his age and his tenure. Combined with his skillsets (defensive accumen, relatively good skating, detail/advanced understanding of the game) and his physical makeup (Man child, still VERY big for NHL standards, strong) he had all the potential to become a REALLY highly coveted prospect.

It's easy to criticise the Gauthier pick in hindsight. But the truth is, if Gauther had seen a minimal to slight improvement in his offensive game year over year since his draft, can you honestly say you wouldn't be excited and have high hopes for him?

He wasn't drafted with the notion his offense would stall, that's just jilted fans looking for things to get upset about and grab the pitchforks.
 
NotSince67 said:
TBH everyone calling Gauthier "safe" as a pick is in need of a rewind. He was coming off his rookie season after a heavy recruitment from Rimouski. He posted JUST under a PPG (60 pts in 62 GP) in a new league and produced very well given his age and his tenure. Combined with his skillsets (defensive accumen, relatively good skating, detail/advanced understanding of the game) and his physical makeup (Man child, still VERY big for NHL standards, strong) he had all the potential to become a REALLY highly coveted prospect.

It's easy to criticise the Gauthier pick in hindsight. But the truth is, if Gauther had seen a minimal to slight improvement in his offensive game year over year since his draft, can you honestly say you wouldn't be excited and have high hopes for him?

He wasn't drafted with the notion his offense would stall, that's just jilted fans looking for things to get upset about and grab the pitchforks.
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No, that's revisionist history, because the moment he was drafted he was basically called a third liner.

https://twitter.com/jonastsn1050/status/351465439169228800
 
...dont look just at the points/goal stats with Grabner. Last year he was mostly injured and the season before he was completely underused by the Isle Coach, who never had a clue what to do with Grabner. He averaged per game 8 to 10 minutes in the 4th line, had never a minute PP and still managed to make points.

I can assure you that with more icetime and the coach know what to do with Grabs, he will make 20 plus goals easy. Plus he is damm exciting to watch, when he starts the turbo the arena erupts...

...and to people who say he lost his speed, here a video from last year and that with groin injury...well, as i said, the crowd will love him...

 
senor martinez said:
This was a fantastic trade for us and our playoffs hopes.

Grabner brings it big. He looks the part, looks like the killer squad... is one of the better penalty killers in the league. Is the fastest one, fast as kessel, even faster than the fat one.... he really brings those special elements. Quick and PK. Does it big. We got the best player.
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Grabner and Komarov need to be on the same line and on the PK together.
This just came to me I think these two could make a hell of a combo of speed and grit with some scoring punch.
 
NotSince67 said:
TBH everyone calling Gauthier "safe" as a pick is in need of a rewind. He was coming off his rookie season after a heavy recruitment from Rimouski. He posted JUST under a PPG (60 pts in 62 GP) in a new league and produced very well given his age and his tenure. Combined with his skillsets (defensive accumen, relatively good skating, detail/advanced understanding of the game) and his physical makeup (Man child, still VERY big for NHL standards, strong) he had all the potential to become a REALLY highly coveted prospect.

It's easy to criticise the Gauthier pick in hindsight. But the truth is, if Gauther had seen a minimal to slight improvement in his offensive game year over year since his draft, can you honestly say you wouldn't be excited and have high hopes for him?

He wasn't drafted with the notion his offense would stall, that's just jilted fans looking for things to get upset about and grab the pitchforks.
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I'm generally on board with this. I mean, had his offence picked up, he could have become as valuable a player as Kopitar. In that sense, it was always more of a home run swing ... but this aspect of his game wasn't necessarily expected to come around, just that at the time, you would be foolish to say it never does for players of his kind.

I fully wanted Gauthier before they picked him. I was glad when they did. I stand by the philosophy. I wanted Eriksson Ek in this years draft, not that it mattered in the end as he was gone, and Dermott looks like a smart pick regardless. I'm also glad they have kept him so far. Can't say it looks like he's going to be a home run, but few are ... he is a much better player than Biggs or Ross. Would be very wise to let 2 or 3 years in the AHL go by to see how things round out.
 
viggen said:
...dont look just at the points/goal stats with Grabner. Last year he was mostly injured and the season before he was completely underused by the Isle Coach, who never had a clue what to do with Grabner. He averaged per game 8 to 10 minutes in the 4th line, had never a minute PP and still managed to make points.

I can assure you that with more icetime and the coach know what to do with Grabs, he will make 20 plus goals easy. Plus he is damm exciting to watch, when he starts the turbo the arena erupts...

...and to people who say he lost his speed, here a video from last year and that with groin injury...well, as i said, the crowd will love him...
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You say 8 to 10, his average is over 11. Which is not that unusual for a guy on his position in the depth charts.
 
ChrisCall said:
I'm generally on board with this. I mean, had his offence picked up, he could have become as valuable a player as Kopitar. In that sense, it was always more of a home run swing ... but this aspect of his game wasn't necessarily expected to come around, just that at the time, you would be foolish to say it never does for players of his kind.

I fully wanted Gauthier before they picked him. I was glad when they did. I stand by the philosophy. I wanted Eriksson Ek in this years draft, not that it mattered in the end as he was gone, and Dermott looks like a smart pick regardless. I'm also glad they have kept him so far. Can't say it looks like he's going to be a home run, but few are ... he is a much better player than Biggs or Ross. Would be very wise to let 2 or 3 years in the AHL go by to see how things round out.
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Kopitar is one of the top centers in the game , the goat never ever had that type of upside .
 
BlueBaron said:
I think you are off about Nylander for this year, he will be a key player in a deep Marlies playoff run IMO. Morgan I am inclined to agree, I could see him ending the season on the top pairing.

I think the team will be better defensively but will struggle to score. A lot depends on Kadri.
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You could see Mrogan on the top pairing by the end of the year?

He's easily our second best defencemen right now, and arguably our best.
 
Stephen said:
But most likely a third liner. So there wasn't a lot of expectations attached to Gauthier that would make his stagnant offense a disappointment.
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He has great defensive qualities but him with the puck is cringeworthy. I don't know if we have more then a 4th line centre in him.
 
The way I could see this trade paying off is like this:

We free up four roster spots, one or two of which may go towards a Brad Boyes, Devin Setoguchi or whomever surprises in camp on their PTO's. But there's also the chance that as the 4th worst team in the league and the 4th waiver claim, we could pounce on a Vladimir Namestnikov or whomever really deep teams like Tampa might be forced to let go of just like Richard Panik. Namestnikov would be a great waiver pick up.
 
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