That's assuming we wait until the TDL to trade everyone. If we trade some of our players three months into the season, we can give their replacement three months of time to show off their skills too.
Confirmed with Link: Leafs trade Beck, Finn, Gibson, Nilsson and Verhaeghe for Grabner
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That's assuming we wait until the TDL to trade everyone. If we trade some of our players three months into the season, we can give their replacement three months of time to show off their skills too.
613Leafer
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Verhaeghe is the main guy that I think is tough to give up. 2X he finished 3rd in the coaches poll for smartest player in the OHL, and he's a pretty skilled guy as well.
Does his skating need work? Sure! But he hasn't even played in the AHL yet. When you're talking about guys that you want to develop slowly, this is the type of guy with skill and versatility that could become something if you gave him 2-3 years in the AHL and helped him work on his skating.
That transition to the AHL is a big indicator of future success at the NHL level IMO. Blacker, Biggs, Ross, Ryan, etc all struggled when they hit the AHL for the first time. Finn similarly struggled when he hit the AHL, which raises a red flag on him. Verhaeghe? We don't know yet with him. He's a prospect that I would label as one we "gave up on" too early going by this trade.
Well it seems clear now (if it wasn't already) that the leafs are stacking up on vets with short contracts, hoping they have decent years and then unloading them at the deadline.
I actually kind of like this, to be honest. It's funny because the team on paper looks better than last year right now....
I actually kind of like this, to be honest. It's funny because the team on paper looks better than last year right now....
Drew75
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I think you look at any move in a bubble and draw certain conclusions both positive and negative. I liked some of the kids we traded, I think Grabner is decent but probably not worth what we gave from a purely hockey sense.
HOWEVER: This wasn't a purely hockey deal, and was made with a long term plan in mind from both sides, and will likely benefit both sides equally.
Step out of the bubble for a minute with me
Lou Lam is talking with teams about various deals and players, he is getting the pulse of what he can do and what he can't, who may be coming through wires, who other teams are shopping / looking for. We don't know what's going on, but he felt he really needed to create significant space / flexibility under the SPC.
It's not easy to find a team with that much contract space that they can provide you the space you need in one move. Snow gave up a chunk of contract flexibility in this deal - and while some here don't care about that stuff, I can tell you GM's do. We weren't getting that space for free - it's not like Snow would say give me your 5 worst guys that you really don't want.
There was negotiation involved, and they likely met in the middle.
Lou also would NOT do this deal without consulting with Hunter (or more likely - have Hunter drive the decision around which prospects were on / off the table). If there's one take away I have from the Rookie Tournament, it's that I trust Hunters evaluation of prospects more than I do mine.
In the end, the Leafs got what they needed - contract space (harder to do and more valuable than I think some here give it credit for - also is "future value" depending how used, but is another asset in the arsenal either way), and a serviceable player who can help the culture now, and be moved for more assets down the line. The Isles got financial relief and 3-5 decent, mid level prospects.
Big picture guys - Big picture!
HOWEVER: This wasn't a purely hockey deal, and was made with a long term plan in mind from both sides, and will likely benefit both sides equally.
Step out of the bubble for a minute with me
Lou Lam is talking with teams about various deals and players, he is getting the pulse of what he can do and what he can't, who may be coming through wires, who other teams are shopping / looking for. We don't know what's going on, but he felt he really needed to create significant space / flexibility under the SPC.
It's not easy to find a team with that much contract space that they can provide you the space you need in one move. Snow gave up a chunk of contract flexibility in this deal - and while some here don't care about that stuff, I can tell you GM's do. We weren't getting that space for free - it's not like Snow would say give me your 5 worst guys that you really don't want.
There was negotiation involved, and they likely met in the middle. Lou also would NOT do this deal without consulting with Hunter (or more likely - have Hunter drive the decision around which prospects were on / off the table). If there's one take away I have from the Rookie Tournament, it's that I trust Hunters evaluation of prospects more than I do mine.
In the end, the Leafs got what they needed - contract space (harder to do and more valuable than I think some here give it credit for - also is "future value" depending how used, but is another asset in the arsenal either way), and a serviceable player who can help the culture now, and be moved for more assets down the line. The Isles got financial relief and 3-5 decent, mid level prospects.
Big picture guys - Big picture!
It's not only that. We are year one of a rebuild. Those older prospects won't be as important or as good when we are contending as the younger kids we will acquire through our FA trades.
The Winter Soldier
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The way I see it, it was Verhaeghe for Grabner. Maybe Nilsson and Finn develop into NHL defencemen. But to get Grabner for this season at 3M, let's not forget this clears cap for Snow. We had to deal Verhaeghe.
A Now player for a little bit of our future.
I think you look at any move in a bubble and draw certain conclusions both positive and negative. I liked some of the kids we traded, I think Grabner is decent but probably not worth what we gave from a purely hockey sense.
HOWEVER: This wasn't a purely hockey deal, and was made with a long term plan in mind from both sides, and will likely benefit both sides equally.
Step out of the bubble for a minute with me
Lou Lam is talking with teams about various deals and players, he is getting the pulse of what he can do and what he can't, who may be coming through wires, who other teams are shopping / looking for. We don't know what's going on, but he felt he really needed to create significant space / flexibility under the SPC.
It's not easy to find a team with that much contract space that they can provide you the space you need in one move. Snow gave up a chunk of contract flexibility in this deal - and while some here don't care about that stuff, I can tell you GM's do. We weren't getting that space for free - it's not like Snow would say give me your 5 worst guys that you really don't want.
Lou also would NOT do this deal without consulting with Hunter (or more likely - have Hunter drive the decision around which prospects were on / off the table). If there's one take away I have from the Rookie Tournament, it's that I trust Hunters evaluation of prospects more than I do mine.
In the end, the Leafs got what they needed - contract space (harder to do and more valuable than I think some here give it credit for - also is "future value" depending how used, but is another asset in the arsenal either way), and a serviceable player who can help the culture now, and be moved for more assets down the line. The Isles got financial relief and 3-5 decent, mid level prospects.
Big picture guys - Big picture!
I think most have started to come around to this conclusion after digesting this trade a little longer.
You are definitely right, but Snow wouldn't have done it for any 5 contract spots. I'm sure this deal took a little while than most just because of how many players were involved.
There are definitely some players that were just thrown in as contract spots but there are some Snow would be more confident in actually developing into an NHL player I have to think. Person I quoted as no idea who Snow liked the most. And it definitely wasn't this 1 for 1 trade as he alluded to.
The Winter Soldier
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The Winter Soldier
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You have no idea what Snow said or wanted. What we can surmise is he wanted to create cap space, he looked at the Leafs prospects, and he may have said give me Verhaeghe and I will take the other 4 roster spots.
Mess
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UFA's essentially as anyone can offer them a contract and sign them to an NHL deal.
The PTO (tryout contract) is really only for medical reasons in case of injuries etc that they are covered by NHLPA rules etc. However they are still free agents.
PTO is able to be terminated without notice by either side.
Mess
Global Moderator
He got 2 X forwards & 2 X Dmen and 1 X Goalie prospects.
That looks like a depth chart by position method by the Leafs and perhaps Snow having some options beyond a certain point on the lists provided and requiring some balance as pick only 2 from the forward list and 2 max from the Dmen list and only 1 goalie option.
But the options very limited here as the player had to be under contract as trading a unsigned prospect doesn't create contract room and this was about doing NYI a favour and taking a $5 mil contract for contract room. This isn't really designed as a hockey trade as both sides had their own agendas at to what they were trying to achieve.
The Winter Soldier
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Snow has come a long way as a GM. I used to question his IQ as a GM. Not anymore. Lou is sharp too, probably a good deal for both teams.
I have to think Snow wants the 3M capspace. And Lou wants to make the playoffs this year by getting a NHL ready player. We will see if this is a deal that will help both teams when we can evaluate it better with time.
Financially, Those 5 guys cost about 4 mil in salary. While Grabner is at 5 mil. Personally I think this is a contract move as well as trying to match salary too.
Honestly, this is such a minor move.
Honestly, this is such a minor move.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Whether or not they will isn't really the point though, is it?
Management clearly felt that they weren't worth holding onto, otherwise they wouldn't have used five of them to get an average third liner.
More like $1.2M. Other than Beck earning $875k on a 1 way, the other 4 will all make under $100k next season in the AHL.
Mess
Global Moderator
Hunter has a strong talent elevator reputation and if one trust him then I wouldn't lose to much sleep over these marginal prospects shipped out here.
Toss in that Leafs already have better prospects at all positions then the ones they dealt and accept they simply lopped off the bottom of the depth chart with prospects that Hunter didn't see a Leafs future with as he had nothing to do with any of them.
I like the fact that if your going to scorch the earth of the past then doing it 5 at once helps accelerate the process and now those new free contracts can be deployed strategically to bring in more future at the expense of past mistakes.
Toss in that Leafs already have better prospects at all positions then the ones they dealt and accept they simply lopped off the bottom of the depth chart with prospects that Hunter didn't see a Leafs future with as he had nothing to do with any of them.
I like the fact that if your going to scorch the earth of the past then doing it 5 at once helps accelerate the process and now those new free contracts can be deployed strategically to bring in more future at the expense of past mistakes.
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