Confirmed with Link: Leafs trade Beck, Finn, Gibson, Nilsson and Verhaeghe for Grabner

[HockeyNightInBelfast]

Ultimately Grabner, Parenteau, Boyes, Glencross, if they excel this year will be moved for assets i.e.) draft picks at the deadline.

It's asset management that's all.

The decks are being re-shuffled starting w/moving out prospects who are fair/midling/fledgling.

Mark Hunter has had a year to watch all of them so good by me.

Interested to see how Verhaege, Nilsson & Gibson fare on the....ahem...in Brooklyn...!

 

[613Leafer]

None of these guys were in our top 15. This isn't Rask, Steen, or Stralman.

Most likely not. They are not Broll or Devane either.

Agreed. Theyre not blue chippers, but not scrubs either. Its a big chunk out of our mid-tier prospects.

Go back 6 months and people were talking about how Verhaghe came 3rd in voting (for the second time) as the OHLs smartest player in the coaches poll, how he played well on a bad team, how he had versatile upside given his skill and hockey IQ, etc.

Finn was one of the top top dmen in the OHL 18 months ago, he had a bad year, but the talent is there if he can improve his skating.

Beck's already a depth level NHLer.

Etc.

 

[SprDaVE]

Solid depth prospects for sure.

I think being able to add Hyman, Bailey, Kapanen, Soshnikov, Froese, Harrington and a few other prospects was what allowed them to trade away a couple depth prospects that they didn't think had upside to be core players in order to clear some contract space and development roster spots. It's all about the core and blue chip prospects really.

So again, people that say they are bad prospects are exaggerating quite a bit. People that say the Islanders made out like bandits are also exaggerating. Leafs gain the better player and flexibility but they also lose a lot of depth and potential useful players. It's important to take into account what the Leafs do with these extra contract spots and what it'll do moving forward.

 

[Daisy Jane]

my thinking is -some of those prospects are going to be replaced by joly/broulliard? so that's two.

another trade during the year for a prospect... (that replaces another one).

 

[613Leafer]

Those contract slots ARE part of the trade return, so we'll see what the Leafs do with them. Its a little early to judge the trade, though at the moment Im not a particularly big fan of the move. Hopefully Leafs brass have something up their sleeve, saw something legitimate in one of the junior players here on tryouts, etc.

I just hope this isnt a case of the somewhat inexperienced Hunter/Dubas overvaluing the guys they brought in and undervaluing what was already here. Finn, Verhaeghe, Nilsson, and Gibson weren't "their" guys. Ive been a big fan of this rebuild so far, and do really like Hunter/Dubas, so Id like to think they very legitimately (and objectively) simply didnt see an NHL future out of these guys.

I did like Sparks/Bibeau more than Gibson though, so dont see him as much of a loss. It will be good to see Sparks get more AHL time this year.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

my thinking is -some of those prospects are going to be replaced by joly/broulliard? so that's two.

another trade during the year for a prospect... (that replaces another one).

Grabner can help us now. Certainly makes us a faster, deeper team, and better on the PK. Babcock will like. He and Bozak could be deadly in shorthanded situations.



Lamoriello:

Exceptional speed. There is no question that he is one of the top penalty killers in the League. He pushes other people and he pushes the defence back. We’re looking forward to getting him here.

4 roster spots may mean more deals, but I would say it is far too early to say they are spots for draft picks. If anything, it means a roster player may be on the move. It gives Lou the ability to make a bigger deal.

 

[deletethis]

I'm seeing a lot of unlikely conclusions reading this thread.

Grabner isn't a good player right now. This is a dump for contract flexibility. Even when he was scoring a few years ago he was still a soft perimeter guy playing the wing with a young star center.

One of the 3 PTO's will be lucky to get a contract as there are already 13 NHL forwards on the Leafs' roster. This doesn't count a prospect like Nylander or Brown possibly taking a spot.

 

[RLF]

Broll and Ashton were absolutely not on their level. Broll was projecting as an AHL 4th liner and Ashton had established himself as an NHL bust. Nilsson, Verhaeghe and Gibson all had promise and NHL potential, and Finn was just one year removed from being highly thought of.

And I know we can use the contract spots. But that's true no matter what return we get for the actual players. We are dumping four prospects as you described it for nothing, when we should have been able to gather assets for them AND use their contract spots for the PTOs.



The bolded again. Said after every trade. So Washington could not get anything better than a broken down Erat for Forsberg, right? As I've said before, bad deals can happen for many reasons, not just because it's the best available.

Oh, and assets that are not proven can't have value? I know you've been around to see a few trades go down, dubey, so I know you have seen prospects and picks, assets that are not proven, traded for value before. Now you just come across as desperate to be positive.

Well said. Seriously, are we being asked to believe that Lou called every GM in the League and said "I have Beck, Verhaege, Nilsson, Gibson and Finn available, I am not looking for much return, Interested?" and they ALL said No?

As I said earlier, we could have probably gotten Grabner for any one of those players and sent the others for late picks if we wanted contract spots for other things. It would have given us at least late picks , PLUS the return at TDL for Grabner and any PTO's we signed.

As much as I have liked what this management group has done, unless there is something else in the immediate works, it looks like poor asset management. Even late picks would have been better than nothing, which at the moment is what the return is as no PTO's have been signed and Grabner is simply a cap dump for NYI.

 

[Mess]

I'm seeing a lot of unlikely conclusions reading this thread.

Grabner isn't a good player right now. This is a dump for contract flexibility. Even when he was scoring a few years ago he was still a soft perimeter guy playing the wing with a young star center.

One of the 3 PTO's will be lucky to get a contract as there are already 13 NHL forwards on the Leafs' roster. This doesn't count a prospect like Nylander or Brown possibly taking a spot.

The conclusion is that now that Leafs have made a 5-1 deal that it opens the door for Leafs to now deal a roster player and get multiple pieces in return with the excess contracts available among the 50 allowable max.

When the Leafs dealt Kessel they received 3 contracts and more pieces in return. Such a deal is not possible if you are sitting at 49 contracts and only limited to 1-1 or 2 for 1 deals max outside of picks.

So if your mission is major roster turnover (ie scorched earth) then you desire as much flexibility as possible.

Lou Lam is in charge so his PTO invitees where only invites in the first place because of the limited contract room and now that he has flexibility (made room), he has the option to sign any/all that he wants. Just as easily as he traded Beck who was recently required you could see Arcobello or Paranteau shipped out to make room for his guys on the NHL team.

There is lots of method to this perceived madness, none of which above is based mainly on Hunter determining the players shipped out have very limited NHL potential or need for the Leafs in the future and better use of those free spots exist.

 

[2ndGenIslander]

Looks like they're basically dumping anyone who they don't believe in as a prospect to make room. I still don't understand this at all though. Grabner is junk, he's an expiring deal, and we have more than enough washed up veterans on the team.

Grabner is still very serviceable. Coming off of a hernia injury and never quite got it together last season because of it. He's a fantastic penalty killer and someone opposing defenses have to plan for or else he exploits them for his speed. Can get 2 breakaways a game, the question is always can he finish them though (hands not too special). Only 27, good player and even better guy. The locker room will miss him and he certainly makes you better up front

 

[pucci2001]

Looks like they're basically dumping anyone who they don't believe in as a prospect to make room. I still don't understand this at all though. Grabner is junk, he's an expiring deal, and we have more than enough washed up veterans on the team.

The way I see this is we get an NHL player that will push the competition early in the season and if he plays well he can get us up to a first rounder at the deadline. If I could trade all 5 of those prospects for a First I would do it 10/10 times....this isnt a sure thing but he will instantly slot into our top 6 unless Nylander plays with the big club this season. He will play great under Babcock as well. I think we are rolling the dice hoping to get a first at the deadline but I think we at least get a 2nd...other than Nilsson I didnt really care for any of them to be honest.

 

[hotpaws]

Grabner is still very serviceable. Coming off of a hernia injury and never quite got it together last season because of it. He's a fantastic penalty killer and someone opposing defenses have to plan for or else he exploits them for his speed. Can get 2 breakaways a game, the question is always can he finish them though (hands not too special). Only 27, good player and even better guy. The locker room will miss him and he certainly makes you better up front

The trade has accomplished everything is was meant to the second it was made . You free up cap space and we get contract flexibility , if any of these players/prospects pans out it's just gravy .

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm seeing a lot of unlikely conclusions reading this thread.

Grabner isn't a good player right now. This is a dump for contract flexibility. Even when he was scoring a few years ago he was still a soft perimeter guy playing the wing with a young star center.

One of the 3 PTO's will be lucky to get a contract as there are already 13 NHL forwards on the Leafs' roster. This doesn't count a prospect like Nylander or Brown possibly taking a spot.

Its training camp. All slates are clean. If he plays to his potential he can be a very good player this year.

 

[Mess]

Grabner is still very serviceable. Coming off of a hernia injury and never quite got it together last season because of it. He's a fantastic penalty killer and someone opposing defenses have to plan for or else he exploits them for his speed. Can get 2 breakaways a game, the question is always can he finish them though (hands not too special). Only 27, good player and even better guy. The locker room will miss him and he certainly makes you better up front

I think the Isles still like Grabner but as the team gets more and more competitive his $5 mil salary and $3 mil cap hit exceeds his value.

Isles created some financial flexibility here and proceeded to sign Steve Bernier, RW - Signed One-year contract ($750k) & Brock Nelson, C - Signed Three-year contract ($2.75 mil) to replace him for about the same cap space and less $$.

Leafs get a very serviceable player in Grabner, but gain contract flexibility something they value more in this transaction, in addition to the impact he could have on the team this season.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Grabner is still very serviceable. Coming off of a hernia injury and never quite got it together last season because of it. He's a fantastic penalty killer and someone opposing defenses have to plan for or else he exploits them for his speed. Can get 2 breakaways a game, the question is always can he finish them though (hands not too special). Only 27, good player and even better guy. The locker room will miss him and he certainly makes you better up front

Yep, I agree. This was a move for now. He is a very good PK'er. He can still skate like the wind. I can see him and Bozak put up a few shorthanded goals this year with the system Lemaire and Babcock will employ. Good deal for the present.

 

[pspot]

pk specialist that can also score 20+ goals will have value at the deadline

add a contract that isn't expiring coming back and there is defintely potential there

 

[buttman*]

Ultimately Grabner, Parenteau, Boyes, Glencross, if they excel this year will be moved for assets i.e.) draft picks at the deadline.

It's asset management that's all.

The decks are being re-shuffled starting w/moving out prospects who are fair/midling/fledgling.

Mark Hunter has had a year to watch all of them so good by me.

Interested to see how Verhaege, Nilsson & Gibson fare on the....ahem...in Brooklyn...!

It's a pretty big assumption that the PTO's will even make the team.

 

[SprDaVE]

It's a pretty big assumption that the PTO's will even make the team.

Not a big assumption that Glencross and Boyes could earn contracts. It's not like the depth and competition is THAT great.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

It's a pretty big assumption that the PTO's will even make the team.

Boyes and Glencross are shoe-ins IMO.

 

[613Leafer]

Boyes and Glencross are shoe-ins IMO.

JVR-Kadri-Parenteau
Grabner-Bozak-Lupul
Komarov-Holland-Matthias
Winnik-Spaling-Panik
Arcobello

I wouldn't call them shoe-ins. We already have 13 NHL players under contract. Even if they make the team, that just means we're waiving someone else by the looks of it. If a player can't make the Leafs, other teams aren't going to give up picks for that player.

 

[Morguee]

All the players traded could one day play in the NHL as serviceable players. The thing is, those types of players are now available every summer for cheap. Why not go out and buy a proven commodity instead of waiting for what ifs. I think the Leafs want to have prospects with high end potential. High end talent is not often available in the summer so you have to draft it.

You trade these b level prospects, sign some free agents for 1 year and then trade them at TD for more scratches on the lottery ticket.

The signing of the free agents also insulates the kids from being called up before their time.

Even if these guys make the NHL it doesn't mean the trade was lost. Only if one of them has a significant career does it really mean anything.

 

[hotpaws]

It's a pretty big assumption that the PTO's will even make the team.

I believe Glencross is a lock to make the team and Boyes is 80% certain as well .

If i had to guess right now with have 16 players either signed to NHL deals/PTO's or rookies (Nylander) that i believe have a chance and 14 spots available . I think Boyes-Arcobello-Parenteau-Nylander are fighting for the last 2 spots .

also this doesn't mean i believe they'll neccesarily be the 13/14 forwards , it just means that i don't believe they'll keep any of them on roster in a defensive role

 

[Nithoniniel]

Like 416Leafs says, even if they get a spot, it's instead of someone else on a short-term deal. That person will then not have an opportunity to entice people at the TDL, which means that what we gain is pretty much the difference between the PTO guy and whomever he replaces.

 

[boredmale]

I think the Isles still like Grabner but as the team gets more and more competitive his $5 mil salary and $3 mil cap hit exceeds his value.

I think for the Islanders it's more about the 5M actual salary then the 3M caphit. From a caphit POV it's a fair contract, from an actual salary POV it's way to much

 

[Stephen]

Pretty clear statement from management that Verhaeghe, Gibson, Finn, and Nilsson aren't worth developing. They are young, but they're basically Christian Hanson, Jesse Blacker, Braden Irwin, Matt Frattin. Even if one of them is a Matt Frattin, so what?