Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign F Auston Matthews to extension (4 years, $13.25M AAV)

[WTFMAN99]

I don;t see the dominant matthews i saw in the US NTDP

I don't think his team at any level have ever won anything have they? WJC, Switzerland and obviously now Toronto...

 

[pcruz]

Players worthy of admiration playing on teams that are not so good is nothing new.

The early 2000's Leafs were great teams.
We had excellent goaltending with Cujo and Belfour, good defense anchored by Kaberle and McCabe, solid forward group with a good mix of size, toughness and some skill, namely Mats, Roberts, Tucker, Antropov, Ponikarovsky, Domi.

Every year we added one or two older players who were expected to get us over the top - Leetch, Lindros, O'Neil, Gilmor, Nolan, Mogilny....



I have a Roberts jersey, the only named jersey I own. I think he played the game in the manner that is synonymous with hockey: some skill, but a ton of determination and hard-nosed grunt work.


I believe those teams were successful. They were competitive and entertaining.
Didn't win, but not for a lack of trying and not from a lack of skill. It didn't happen.

Unfortunate, sure, but that's sports.


And I see this current team in very much the same way.

They have the elements to win.
We have seen how the best players have done things that are uncomfortable (blocking shots, playing further back and more defensively sound, throwing the body, taking hits to make plays), and we have seen how disappointed they are after losing.

The team has been a blast to watch and we can expect them competing in the playoffs since Matthews and Co came onto the team.


How some people will consider one group to be successful and another not so, despite having achieved the same things, is utterly baffling to me....

 

[Gary Nylund]

How some people will consider one group to be successful and another not so, despite having achieved the same things, is utterly baffling to me....

One team went to the final four twice, so far the other has a 1-7 playoff series record. If that to you means "achieving the same things" then to use your own words, I am "utterly baffled" and there's no point in further discussion.

Interesting that you mentioned Roberts - our core players are nothing like him and that might be the reason we're 1-7 as we have a habit of not showing up in game 7's.

 

[Stephen]

What would show you "compete level" in the playoffs?

Sacrificing the body to take hits, dish out hits, block shots?

I'm trying to figure out what Tucks and Robs did in the playoffs that showed they competed, but the current guys don't.

When we had guys like Tucker and Roberts I always wished one day we would have higher end stars instead, like Matthews and Nylander and Marner. Higher talent level, higher championship ceiling on and just better, more skillful hockey players. Tucker and Roberts were simply not my preferred types.

Fast forward 20 years and 7 years into this era, I wish we had more Tucker and Roberts in our DNA, because to win a cup you can’t play favourites with all the ingredients you need to win a Stanley Cup.

Aside from simply winning more games in the playoffs and creating memories that have lasted the years, what Tucker and Roberts would have given us today is a physical and compete level that would have been hard to top as a supplement to all the skill around them. An ability to handle the rough stuff.

I look back on the Islanders series in 2002 and it was a bloodbath. They had head hunters galore and cheap shots were thrown out liberally on both sides. The environment wasn’t too different from what Florida tried imposing on us with Bennett, Tkachuk, Gudas etc. the mugging our kid Knies took behind the net. Sundin was knocked out of the series with a fractured wrist… well he had a response from Tucker and Roberts the very next game and we won the series.

Terribly un-PC today in 2023 but if we had Roberts and Tucker I don’t think Bennett and Tkachuk and Gudas would have gotten away with their antics on our rookie.

Of course these are not roles suited for an Auston Matthews. That’s why we have Bertuzzi and Domi and even Reaves now. But you can clearly see with the moves Toronto is making that we need some of that DNA on the second tier of this team.

 

[Hellcat]

When we had guys like Tucker and Roberts I always wished one day we would have higher end stars instead, like Matthews and Nylander and Marner. Higher talent level, higher championship ceiling on and just better, more skillful hockey players. Tucker and Roberts were simply not my preferred types.

Fast forward 20 years and 7 years into this era, I wish we had more Tucker and Roberts in our DNA, because to win a cup you can’t play favourites with all the ingredients you need to win a Stanley Cup.

Aside from simply winning more games in the playoffs and creating memories that have lasted the years, what Tucker and Roberts would have given us today is a physical and compete level that would have been hard to top as a supplement to all the skill around them. An ability to handle the rough stuff.

I look back on the Islanders series in 2002 and it was a bloodbath. They had head hunters galore and cheap shots were thrown out liberally on both sides. The environment wasn’t too different from what Florida tried imposing on us with Bennett, Tkachuk, Gudas etc. the mugging our kid Knies took behind the net. Sundin was knocked out of the series with a fractured wrist… well he had a response from Tucker and Roberts the very next game and we won the series.

Terribly un-PC today in 2023 but if we had Roberts and Tucker I don’t think Bennett and Tkachuk and Gudas would have gotten away with their antics on our rookie.

Of course these are not roles suited for an Auston Matthews. That’s why we have Bertuzzi and Domi and even Reaves now. But you can clearly see with the moves Toronto is making that we need some of that DNA on the second tier of this team.

We always wish we had what we dont have eh?

The second bolded point is as much on the GM and Coaching staff for not making adjustments with the roster or our game plan as it is on the players. When your rookie gets Judo thrown behind the net and there is no push back, when you let Gudas run Kampft and there is no answer, simply put I would never condone intentionally injuring a player, I do condone targeting players and making their life miserable. Paull and his coaching staff had an answer for the Leafs, Shedon had no answer for the Panthers. The coaching team made Tkachuks, Bennets and Gudas life easy by not targeting them, it's a series , if you see early in the series that you are going to lose a game, goon it up, every action has a trickle down effect to the next game, if you take out Bennett in game 2 and he just happens to not be around for game three to do the borderline stuff he was doing, that helps you win the series. IMO the team had no series plan.

 

[Stephen]

We always wish we had what we dont have eh?

The second bolded point is as much on the GM and Coaching staff for not making adjustments with the roster or our game plan as it is on the players. When your rookie gets Judo thrown behind the net and there is no push back, when you let Gudas run Kampft and there is no answer, simply put I would never condone intentionally injuring a player, I do condone targeting players and making their life miserable. Paull and his coaching staff had an answer for the Leafs, Shedon had no answer for the Panthers. The coaching team made Tkachuks, Bennets and Gudas life easy by not targeting them, it's a series , if you see early in the series that you are going to lose a game, goon it up, every action has a trickle down effect to the next game, if you take out Bennett in game 2 and he just happens to not be around for game three to do the borderline stuff he was doing, that helps you win the series. IMO the team had no series plan.

Well. A Stanley Cup champion generally requires as many of the diverse ingredients as size, defense, elite goaltending, physicality, intangibles and grit, snot, whatever as possible. Aka build a team that has many of the tried and tested elements as demonstrated over a sample size of over a century.

For so many years under previous management we’ve been working with the assumption that we don’t always need those things as conventional teams assume. Well it turns out yes we do. And when we have those other ingredients in place and integrated to a team concept I’m sure we’ll see an improvement in Matthews performance as well. That’s what it means to support and protect your stars.

 

[pcruz]

One team went to the final four twice, so far the other has a 1-7 playoff series record. If that to you means "achieving the same things" then to use your own words, I am "utterly baffled" and there's no point in further discussion.

Interesting that you mentioned Roberts - our core players are nothing like him and that might be the reason we're 1-7 as we have a habit of not showing up in game 7's.

Now now, we can't go on changing the definition of success.

It's been established, in this very discussion of Matthews, that success is measured solely on championships.

Therefore, this current group has had the exact same amount of success as that aforementioned group of the late 90s and early 2000s.

None!

When we had guys like Tucker and Roberts I always wished one day we would have higher end stars instead, like Matthews and Nylander and Marner. Higher talent level, higher championship ceiling on and just better, more skillful hockey players. Tucker and Roberts were simply not my preferred types.

Fast forward 20 years and 7 years into this era, I wish we had more Tucker and Roberts in our DNA, because to win a cup you can’t play favourites with all the ingredients you need to win a Stanley Cup.

Aside from simply winning more games in the playoffs and creating memories that have lasted the years, what Tucker and Roberts would have given us today is a physical and compete level that would have been hard to top as a supplement to all the skill around them. An ability to handle the rough stuff.

I look back on the Islanders series in 2002 and it was a bloodbath. They had head hunters galore and cheap shots were thrown out liberally on both sides. The environment wasn’t too different from what Florida tried imposing on us with Bennett, Tkachuk, Gudas etc. the mugging our kid Knies took behind the net. Sundin was knocked out of the series with a fractured wrist… well he had a response from Tucker and Roberts the very next game and we won the series.

Terribly un-PC today in 2023 but if we had Roberts and Tucker I don’t think Bennett and Tkachuk and Gudas would have gotten away with their antics on our rookie.

Of course these are not roles suited for an Auston Matthews. That’s why we have Bertuzzi and Domi and even Reaves now. But you can clearly see with the moves Toronto is making that we need some of that DNA on the second tier of this team.

See, we have had some of these guys:

Hyman was a hard-nosed f***er who didn't mind rough stuff.

Bunting the same.

Foligno was brought in to be that.

Naz was everything we could ask for in that department.


As much as I loved Robs and Tucks, players like them are sprinklers throughout the league.

You can pick up those kinds of players much more readily than you can the ultra skilled, high octane player.

Acciari was this, Lafferty was supposed to be it. We thought RoR would bring more of that silent toughness as well.

Im not convinced that its been the 1 factor that has led to the losses.

A combination of bad circumstances and poor play from a player or 2 at really bad times has led to 1st round exits too often.

But it's also an indictment on the officials.
In no universe is what Hunting did deserving of 3 games on his ass and at the same time other comparable hits are either nothing, or 1 game suspensions.

Same with Clifford. His wasn't the worst hit of the series, yet it was worthy of essentially 2 games.

So, while the players haven't met their expected performance, they have been playing with slightly different rules from the rest of the league.

If a Toronto player plays a little bit of interference leading directly to a goal, it gets called back. When it's someone holding onto a Toronto defenders stick, no problem.

Is that the blanket excuse and we just shake our fists at the refs and absolve the players? No.

They put themselves in positions where a bad call or a bad turnover costs them their season, and that's totally on the skaters.
Still can't forget these things though.


Fretting has the game on his stick and misses a break away.
Errant drop pass in ot, and the next game flutter shot from the blue line in ot.
Tavares almost gets decapitated...
Whatever the f*** happened in Columbus.....eeek.
5 On 3 gifted to tie the series based on 2 really bad calls, but 2 plays that the guys should have known better.
Goal called back on butter soft interference.


It's been different things every year and only this year do I look st it and wish someone had punched an opponent in the jaw.

Maybe the series vs Boston when Tavares got knocked out by Chara and no call was made.

 

[Stephen]

Now now, we can't go on changing the definition of success.

It's been established, in this very discussion of Matthews, that success is measured solely on championships.

Therefore, this current group has had the exact same amount of success as that aforementioned group of the late 90s and early 2000s.

None!





See, we have had some of these guys:

Hyman was a hard-nosed f***er who didn't mind rough stuff.

Bunting the same.

Foligno was brought in to be that.

Naz was everything we could ask for in that department.


As much as I loved Robs and Tucks, players like them are sprinklers throughout the league.

You can pick up those kinds of players much more readily than you can the ultra skilled, high octane player.

Acciari was this, Lafferty was supposed to be it. We thought RoR would bring more of that silent toughness as well.

Im not convinced that its been the 1 factor that has led to the losses.

A combination of bad circumstances and poor play from a player or 2 at really bad times has led to 1st round exits too often.

But it's also an indictment on the officials.
In no universe is what Hunting did deserving of 3 games on his ass and at the same time other comparable hits are either nothing, or 1 game suspensions.

Same with Clifford. His wasn't the worst hit of the series, yet it was worthy of essentially 2 games.

So, while the players haven't met their expected performance, they have been playing with slightly different rules from the rest of the league…

I’m going to have to disagree with you here. Not to overly romanticize Roberts and Tucker, but they had a certain playoff it factor and you can’t simply name off a bunch randoms and say they are plentiful around the league. You have to be able to judge that ability like anything else. If the difference between a Corey Perry, Sam Bennett etc and whatever the Leafs tried to insert into their lineup is not apparent to the GM you’re not going to find it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Now now, we can't go on changing the definition of success.

It's been established, in this very discussion of Matthews, that success is measured solely on championships.

Therefore, this current group has had the exact same amount of success as that aforementioned group of the late 90s and early 2000s.

None!

No it hasn't. Be a pal and don't waste my time by quoting my posts to spew nonsense.

 

[francis246]

also although they didn't win anything either man give me the heart and grit of players like Clark, Tucker, Roberts , Markov etc etc and I'm at least happy if they go down, it was a war
These guys - pathetic performances when it matters most

i have to agree, we've been missing that element for so long. Though the best game I think I watched in this era was that 5-0 win against the lightning in 2022. That was the best game I've ever seen Mitch Marner play, was blocking shots 5 on 3, scoring and setting up goals, upsetting it didn't carry over.

but we also have to understand and acknowledge that with Parros as the head of DPOS, it is a huge gamble and risk to have players who cross the line. Honestly I think that's why the leafs had such a drastic shift to skill because if we do anything it's amplified x3. Bunting hit should have been a 1 game suspension max. Debrusk basically kills Marleau gets no games, Kadri retaliates and gets a full series, Kyle Clifford layed a routine check and got 2 games and a 5! Basically 3 games. If the leafs can find that balance I'll be happy but I understand why they don't want to cross the line or have certain players because we get screwed by the officials and the league. I forget who said it, but basically teams and all the other GM's made a pact to claim all leafs players on waivers lol.

 

[Hellcat]

Well. A Stanley Cup champion generally requires as many of the diverse ingredients as size, defense, elite goaltending, physicality, intangibles and grit, snot, whatever as possible. Aka build a team that has many of the tried and tested elements as demonstrated over a sample size of over a century.

For so many years under previous management we’ve been working with the assumption that we don’t always need those things as conventional teams assume. Well it turns out yes we do. And when we have those other ingredients in place and integrated to a team concept I’m sure we’ll see an improvement in Matthews performance as well. That’s what it means to support and protect your stars.

I agree, we had those things last year, supposedly we had the correct mix of players and lucked into a series win vs Tampa and got obliterated vs FLA. The coach simply has no clue, we had the clutch guy in O'Rielly, the grinding d-men, the puck moving d-men, the superstars, the overperforming rookie (goalie), the bottom 6 grinders, we had the ingredients yet.... the coach... IMO got in the way.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree, we had those things last year, supposedly we had the correct mix of players and lucked into a series win vs Tampa and got obliterated vs FLA. The coach simply has no clue, we had the clutch guy in O'Rielly, the grinding d-men, the puck moving d-men, the superstars, the overperforming rookie (goalie), the bottom 6 grinders, we had the ingredients yet.... the coach... IMO got in the way.

Marner played possibly the worst game of his career in game 3 against Florida, how do you figure Keefe is to blame for that?

 

[pcruz]

It's funny to romanticize the team, but do people not remember this team being eliminated by New Jersey after putting up a total of 6 shots on goal in an elimination game???


Yeah!

Imagine this group doing that

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's funny to romanticize the team, but do people not remember this team being eliminated by New Jersey after putting up a total of 6 shots on goal in an elimination game???

Yeah!

Imagine this group doing that

Yeah that game played ~20 years ago is crucial when evaluating the team today.

No need to romanticize that team, they weren't that good but to this point, they achieved a lot more in the playoffs than the current group.

 

[Racer88]

Marner played possibly the worst game of his career in game 3 against Florida, how do you figure Keefe is to blame for that?

Was it as bad as the game where he threw the puck over the glass…..lol

It's funny to romanticize the team, but do people not remember this team being eliminated by New Jersey after putting up a total of 6 shots on goal in an elimination game???


Yeah!

Imagine this group doing that

But did that team lose to a Zamboni driver…….I think not

 

[leafs in five]

The Leafs wanted 8 years. Matthews wanted way less.

fewer

I’m going to have to disagree with you here. Not to overly romanticize Roberts and Tucker, but they had a certain playoff it factor and you can’t simply name off a bunch randoms and say they are plentiful around the league. You have to be able to judge that ability like anything else. If the difference between a Corey Perry, Sam Bennett etc and whatever the Leafs tried to insert into their lineup is not apparent to the GM you’re not going to find it.

I agree and think these Leafs are much closer to the Sens teams that those Leafs teams bullied out of the building. but an iteration of those Sens teams made a cup final eventually, and no version of those Leafs ever did. anyway

 

[leafs in five]

But did that team lose to a Zamboni driver…….I think not

I guess this one was the only regular season game in the past 6-7 years that mattered

 

[leafs in five]

honestly when habs fans I know brought up that game I was always like god you must think about it 10x as often as any Leafs fan does, but then it comes up every 10 or so pages of every thread on here so maybe what's striking is how many Leafs fans here conduct themselves like Habs fans trying to troll the Leafs fans in their group chats.

anyway I just looked up the 2004 Flyers series on hockey ref to be reminded that the playoff warrior Leafs got *goalied* by one Robert Esche

 

[Racer88]

I guess this one was the only regular season game in the past 6-7 years that mattered

Not the only game but is sure was Embarrassing

 

[leafs in five]

personally I was not embarrassed by it at all

 

[francis246]

Not the only game but is sure was Embarrassing

People still care about that game lol? It was a non significant regular season game.

 

[Hellcat]

Marner played possibly the worst game of his career in game 3 against Florida, how do you figure Keefe is to blame for that?

Why ask a question you already know the answer to? Did Keefe cut Marners minutes in that game? Did Keefe address Florida's aggressive ground and pound forecheck? Did Keefe put big bodies in front of Bob to take his eyes away? Did Keefe address Florida taking liberties with is team?

 

[ACC1224]

People still care about that game lol? It was a non significant regular season game.

You shouldn’t be surprised. Some are still crying about a puck over the glass penalty that happened 5 years ago

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why ask a question you already know the answer to? Did Keefe cut Marners minutes in that game? Did Keefe address Florida's aggressive ground and pound forecheck? Did Keefe put big bodies in front of Bob to take his eyes away? Did Keefe address Florida taking liberties with is team?

So you're blaming Marner playing like a scared teenager on Keefe? Wow, the lengths some people will go to to keep their narratives intact is mind boggling!

You shouldn’t be surprised. Some are still crying about a puck over the glass penalty that happened 5 years ago

I seem to remember you making this same comment number of times now. How sure are you that the MTL series was played 5 years ago?

Marner's "Dumb Play" Costly in Maple Leafs Loss [Video] - The Hockey Writers Toronto Maple Leafs Latest News, Analysis & More

Mitch Marner has a history of puck over the glass penalties in the playoffs. The Game 6 call was the most costly for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree and think these Leafs are much closer to the Sens teams that those Leafs teams bullied out of the building. but an iteration of those Sens teams made a cup final eventually, and no version of those Leafs ever did. anyway

That seems like a pretty decent comparison and hopefully this team makes to the final one day as well. At this point though we're 1-7 in playoff series which is something that OTT team never did.