Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign F Auston Matthews to extension (4 years, $13.25M AAV)

[ShaneFalco]

There’s a very real chance that Matthews is #1 in both goals and points all time for the Maple Leafs by the time this extension ends and this the kind of crap you people would rather talk about

Yeah why would anyone talk contracts in a hockey forum for an under-performing team where the core, despite no playoff success, goes after every penny anyway

 

[Sypher04]

Yeah why would anyone talk contracts in a hockey forum for an under-performing team where the core, despite no playoff success, goes after every penny anyway

Talking contracts to some extent is fine and makes sense, although many here make every single discussion about the core 4 contracts or Dubas regardless of relevance which is incredibly annoying.

In either case, that is not what I was responding to. I’m responding to the idea hand wringing about whether Matthews actually wants to be here or just signed because we showed him the money.

There’s precisely nothing to suggest he doesn’t want to be here, and there never has been. Matthews is no different than anyone else who is a pending UFA. He stayed because he wanted to AND because he got paid.

 

[Arzak]

Are things going poorly with Matthews?

A player 1 year removed from back to back Rocket trophies and who scored 40 goals on what was a really poor production year, but one where he improved in other areas away from the puck.

I find it a bit concerning. So he wasn't injured last year? Improving in other areas is great, but it's not the same as back-to-back Rockets or MVP .

13.25M for another super elite PK would be a bit too much.

 

[Antropovsky]

Yes, he did benefit heavily from things like Kucherov's 128 point MVP season and other advantages that Marner didn't have, but that just goes to show that similar raw points in one particular season =/= equal players. Marner was better.

Neither are the issue.

So Point didn't propel Kucherov to his best season, like Marner did to Tavares and Matthews? Or so we've been told by Marner fans constantly.

Lol and your also saying...Marner wasn't benefitting similarly? Marner played with 27 year old two time hart trophy finalist Tavares and 25 year old Hyman and pp included Matthews.

People act like 27 year old Tavares was chop liver lol. His advanced stats were elite. Certain posters have tried to spin that Tavares and even Matthews are made better When numerous authors have indicated that Marner was the one benefitting the most from Tavares/Matthews...not the other way around.

Here's the same post I've cited before where the author describes Tavares elite abilities. He also breaks down every Marner Tavares goal and indicates that Tavares abilities were the driver of majority.



Additionally, here is a sportsnet post where the author indicates Marner, in his 2019 season was likely being overrated and that he more of an elite pp player but not 5vs5.

 

[lipstickjunkie]

I wonder if Matthews will able to reach a couple of pretty significant milestones over the duration of this contract. He needs to average 89.4 points per year until the end of the contract to pass Sundin as the all-time franchise leader in points, and he needs to average 91.6 to become the first player to accumulate 1000 points with the team.

 

[ToneDog]

So Point didn't propel Kucherov to his best season, like Marner did to Tavares and Matthews? Or so we've been told by Marner fans constantly.

Lol and your also saying...Marner wasn't benefitting similarly? Marner played with 27 year old two time hart trophy finalist Tavares and 25 year old Hyman and pp included Matthews.

People act like 27 year old Tavares was chop liver lol. His advanced stats were elite. Certain posters have tried to spin that Tavares and even Matthews are made better When numerous authors have indicated that Marner was the one benefitting the most from Tavares/Matthews...not the other way around.

Here's the same post I've cited before where the author describes Tavares elite abilities. He also breaks down every Marner Tavares goal and indicates that Tavares abilities were the driver of majority.



Additionally, here is a sportsnet post where the author indicates Marner, in his 2019 season was likely being overrated and that he more of an elite pp player but not 5vs5.

Hard to suck and blow simultaneously but some Leafs fans are really good at it. LOL.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Talking contracts to some extent is fine and makes sense, although many here make every single discussion about the core 4 contracts or Dubas regardless of relevance which is incredibly annoying.

In either case, that is not what I was responding to. I’m responding to the idea hand wringing about whether Matthews actually wants to be here or just signed because we showed him the money.

There’s precisely nothing to suggest he doesn’t want to be here, and there never has been. Matthews is no different than anyone else who is a pending UFA. He stayed because he wanted to AND because he got paid.

Fair enough
I just don't think AM and MM are doing themselves any favours in this city - the way their greediness despite having won nothing, and their seemingly unwillingness or inability to ramp up to playoff hockey is perceived

 

[notDatsyuk]

Are things going poorly with Matthews?

A player 1 year removed from back to back Rocket trophies and who scored 40 goals on what was a really poor production year, but one where he improved in other areas away from the puck.

Are things that bad with him that people have no qualms with accusing him of being:

Selfish
Greedy
Content with not winning
Afraid of commitment
Unwilling to put his body on the line


I could see how someone could be sour on a Manoah who was sent down to Christie Pits and throw for the Maple Leafs, but what is the source of vitriol for someone who still led the team in goals this past year?

"Areas away from the puck" - do you mean specifically defensively?

Apparently he played more with Nylander this year than last, and Mitch had more time with Tavares.

JT's (the only negative both years) and Bunting's +/- stayed about the same, while Mitch dropped a bit. Matty and particularly Willy improved. (I think it's a bit of an indication of who is the real defensive problem.)

Matty had more giveaways and fewer takeaways (per 60) this year than last, but still positive. (Willy is still running almost 2 takes to gives, Matty and Mitch are still a few more takes than gives, and JT is still the only one of the four with more gives than takes.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Point was coming from a 40 goal season with the same points as Marner. We are told in all the Matthews comparisons that goals are more important than points.

Point is better at goals. Way better at playoffs. Marner better at points. Very comparable players.

Point career earnings thus far: $31 million.

Marner career earnings thus far: $52 million.

I don't care if the issue is our gm was incompetent or that our players are greedier. I don't care about the lame rationalizations. All I know is that I'm SICK of our players having such a higher aav than their direct comparables. I'm SICK of it.

To me the funny part is a poster claiming that Marner is better (and $4M better!) when it's obviously not supported by the facts.

 

[TDotMassive]

Being greedy is like blowing up a balloon, gotta know when to stop inflating to avoid blowing up in your face. If he demanded 15x2, maybe the hatchets come out.

I'm talking about a hypothetical... where he IS that greedy, and pushes his leverage to the max like an NBA star, and doesn't care if he walks into UFA. There would be enough teams willing to pay him 15x2 if the Leafs declined. Despite what the heads here are saying... this was a legitimate option Matthews could have played. The Leafs had ZERO leverage... therefore, a 13.2x4 contract is team friendly.

 

[TDotMassive]

Yes, what a favor he did Toronto by not putting a gun to our head for a $15m x 2 year contract.

He’s a real saint…

Get real.

Seriously, these kinds of posts make you wonder if people want Cups in Toronto or just individual players to get as rich as possible.



Matthews is so hard done by here.

I think we should definitely compare him to other persecuted Toronto legends like Lyle Overbay, Marco Scuturo, and Pavel Kubina for sure.

Ya... Dubas effed up, left Matthews in a position of total control and max leverage. It would have been greedy, it would have shown he doesn't care about winning in Toronto... but he could have played it like an NBA star, demanded 15x2 with the intention of 17x2 in 2 years, or he walks to UFA. Leafs could then let him walk... but there would be teams ready to pay him 15x2 and Matthews in this scenario, would lose nothing, and the Leafs would lose everything.

Sucks when you're negotiating from a place of zero leverage... but if Matthews was an ass and only interested in money, the above scenario was possible. 13.2x4 is therefore quite team friendly.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Begs the question ..

If the Leafs didn't agree to make Auston the highest paid player in the game would he still be a Leaf today?

Had the Leafs agreed to give him his $13.25 mil ask but insisted on full term what would have been the outcome?.

Both situations would have tested his true love of the Leafs.

Well so far through 2 negotiations he has done very little for the team while demanding the contract be front loaded, full of signing bonuses, short term and near the league leaders in aav.

Based on what we know, he appears to care more about money than the leafs.

Especially considering he knows his contract will have a huge effect on both marner and Nylander when they go to resign.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm talking about a hypothetical... where he IS that greedy, and pushes his leverage to the max like an NBA star, and doesn't care if he walks into UFA. There would be enough teams willing to pay him 15x2 if the Leafs declined. Despite what the heads here are saying... this was a legitimate option Matthews could have played. The Leafs had ZERO leverage... therefore, a 13.2x4 contract is team friendly.

Team friendly is a subjective term. I wouldn't go that far myself, though it's probably closer to team friendly than to him being a greedy d-bag like some people are saying. I mean he wasn't going to be getting less than MacKinnon so if it's an overpayment, it's max 1 million more than it should be so still not as much of an overpayment as Marner's current contract. I don't even want to think about what Marner's next contract might look like but who knows, maybe he'll decide to be friendly, you never know.

Actually scratch that. MacKinnon signed for max term, Matthews didn't so I'm starting to lean less towards the team friendly assessment and more towards greedy d-bag. Long day at work, getting tired so I'm slow on the uptake by now LOL.

 

[Hellcat]

Yeah why would anyone talk contracts in a hockey forum for an under-performing team where the core, despite no playoff success, goes after every penny anyway

Not true, if Matthews went to UFA next summer he'd get way more than what he recently signed for, therefore he left money on the table and did not go for every penny anyway.

 

[Stamkos4life]

The people who have spent the last few years telling us ad nauseum that he won’t re-sign here haven’t eaten nearly enough crow to this point, but I’m inclined to agree. It’s serving no purpose



Don’t be ridiculous.

No elite player signs for 4 years somewhere they don’t love playing and ultimately want to be.

If he felt otherwise he could have very easily walked to UFA and gotten this contract

Most star players seem to sign for 8 years.

This is twice in a row where the leafs want max term and matthews wants half of that.

I wouldn't call that love, especially when you consider matthews demands his contracts be front loaded, full of signing bonuses, short term and either the most expensive in the league or 3rd most.

For someone who claims to love being here and only wants to play for the Leafs, he sure doesn't show it with his actions.

You know what they say, actions speak louder than words.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Not true, if Matthews went to UFA next summer he'd get way more than what he recently signed for, therefore he left money on the table and did not go for every penny anyway.

I don't know, a guy coming off an 85 point season, sub par playoffs and a bunch of injuries?

Seems awfully risky to pay that guy 14+ mil, let alone 13.25.

 

[Hellcat]

Well so far through 2 negotiations he has done very little for the team while demanding the contract be front loaded, full of signing bonuses, short term and near the league leaders in aav.

Nothing but win the Calder, win the Rocket Richard twice, win the Hart, win the Pearson and be a 2x Allstar and be named to the All Rookie team.

To suggest the best goal scorer in the league should not be paid like the best goal scorer in the league, is quite honestly myopic. The guy took a $1 to $2 million dollar hair cut per year, from what he would have got on the open market for gods sake, can we stop ragging on the guy for signing a fair contract?

It's the GM's job to build the roster, if the team is not winning after all AM has done for this team, that is on the GM and the Coach.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Matthews not signing 8 years is in no way an indication of a desire to not want to be here longer. Signing for 5, then 4, is a clear indication that his philosophy for contracts is more on the mid term but it really doesn’t say much beyond that. It’s not like there is anything stopping him from extending again in 4 years. In fact, it’s the most likely scenario.

There’s a very real chance that Matthews is #1 in both goals and points all time for the Maple Leafs by the time this extension ends and this is the kind of crap you people would rather talk about…

I care more about winning the cup than I do about matthews being the franchise leader in goals or points.

Paying someone to be the highest paid player when they just came off an 85 point season and sub par playoffs is not the best way to win the cup.

But maybe that's just me.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Nothing but win the Calder, win the Rocket Richard twice, win the Hart, win the Pearson and be a 2x Allstar and be named to the All Rookie team.

To suggest the best goal scorer in the league should not be paid like the best goal scorer in the league, is quite honestly myopic. The guy took a $1 to $2 million dollar hair cut per year, from what he would have got on the open market for gods sake, can we stop ragging on the guy for signing a fair contract?

It's the GM's job to build the roster, if the team is not winning after all AM has done for this team, that is on the GM and the Coach.

Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant giving anything back to the team regarding his contract.

You'd think if a player gets tons of signing bonuses, front loaded and a really high aav, he'd have to give something back as in signing for 8 years instead of just 4-5.

But matthews gets all of those things and still doesn't give the team any extra years.

The best goal scorer in the league is not the best player. Sure pay him well, but it needs to be reasonable if we want to win a cup.

This is not reasonable and will most likely result in us continuing to fail.

Especially when you consider this contract will have a direct impact on both marner and Nylander when they resign.

Remember Nylander saying he'd take less if others did? Well that's certainly not happening now.

Matthews has proven, multiple times, he is not a team player.

 

[Hellcat]

Most star players seem to sign for 8 years.

This is twice in a row where the leafs want max term and matthews wants half of that.

I wouldn't call that love, especially when you consider matthews demands his contracts be front loaded, full of signing bonuses, short term and either the most expensive in the league or 3rd most.

For someone who claims to love being here and only wants to play for the Leafs, he sure doesn't show it with his actions.

You know what they say, actions speak louder than words.

By the end of his next contract he will have been with the Leafs for 12 years, your theory and the truth seem to be at odds.

You know what they say .... You're wrong ....

 

[Sypher04]

I care more about winning the cup than I do about matthews being the franchise leader in goals or points.

Paying someone to be the highest paid player when they just came off an 85 point season and sub par playoffs is not the best way to win the cup.

But maybe that's just me.

Everyone wants to win a cup more than they care about Matthews setting records - doesn’t mean the latter isn’t a much more interesting discussion than debating whether a player who literally just committed to being here for the next 5 years actually in fact wants to be here.

It’s very clear from all your posts that you’re just looking to be as miserable as possible about this so I’ll just leave you to it.

 

[Nineteen67]

Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant giving anything back to the team regarding his contract.

You'd think if a player gets tons of signing bonuses, front loaded and a really high aav, he'd have to give something back as in signing for 8 years instead of just 4-5.

But matthews gets all of those things and still doesn't give the team any extra years.

The best goal scorer in the league is not the best player. Sure pay him well, but it needs to be reasonable if we want to win a cup.

This is not reasonable and will most likely result in us continuing to fail.

Especially when you consider this contract will have a direct impact on both marner and Nylander when they resign.

Remember Nylander saying he'd take less if others did? Well that's certainly not happening now.

Matthews has proven, multiple times, he is not a team player.

I thought he would want to play in a better city in a US market but probably couldn’t get the same deal. Toronto lifestyle fits him to an T and there’s no pressure to win.

My guess is the NHL would have loved to see him go to Detroit, NY, Philly and it’s too bad he McDavid are hidden in Canada.

 

[Sypher04]

I thought he would want to play in a better city in a US market but probably couldn’t get the same deal. Toronto lifestyle fits him to an T and there’s no pressure to win.

My guess is the NHL would have loved to see him go to Detroit, NY, Philly and it’s too bad he McDavid are hidden in Canada.

Lmao, ok

 

[notDatsyuk]

Well so far through 2 negotiations he has done very little for the team while demanding the contract be front loaded, full of signing bonuses, short term and near the league leaders in aav.

Based on what we know, he appears to care more about money than the leafs.

Especially considering he knows his contract will have a huge effect on both marner and Nylander when they go to resign.

The front loading and bonuses really don't impact the team at all as they don't affect the cap, and to the owners the difference isn't a drop in the ocean.

It means far more to the player - if the bonus is paid while he's in Arizona, it gets taxed at the rate applicable there, rather than here, and front loading just means his accountant has more time to steal it (oops, I mean invest it).

Amount and term are relevant.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nothing but win the Calder, win the Rocket Richard twice, win the Hart, win the Pearson and be a 2x Allstar and be named to the All Rookie team.

To suggest the best goal scorer in the league should not be paid like the best goal scorer in the league, is quite honestly myopic. The guy took a $1 to $2 million dollar hair cut per year, from what he would have got on the open market for gods sake, can we stop ragging on the guy for signing a fair contract?

It's the GM's job to build the roster, if the team is not winning after all AM has done for this team, that is on the GM and the Coach.

Matthews is a great player, no doubt about it. That said, the Calder is irrelevant, as is the All Rookie team.

Re. the bolded - I'm pretty sure there's no standard that says how much the best goal scorer in the league should be paid. To justify being the highest paid player, I think you should have a claim to being the best player period, not just best at one aspect of the game.

See the pic below, note the PTS/60 column. I'd say that PTS counts for a lot more than goals, and this seems to indicate that Matthews had one year where he won the hardware that really counts where he was the best player in the league but that was a bit of an outlier.

I just had a peek at the Ted Lindsay award voting, if I'm not mistaken that's what the Pearson is now called. I assume that's more meaningful than the Hart voting as it's done by the players who presumably are better judges than the press (though I suspect there's probably not a lot of difference in the voting for those two awards). Here's where Matthews has finished over the last 5 years.

2019 - no votes
2020 - 10th
2021 - 2nd
2022 - 1st
2023 - 16th

If we accept that the players votes are meaningful, this indicates that he had not one, but two years where he played at an elite level that justifies paying him top dollar. Still, that's just two years out of the last five and last year was a big step in the wrong direction.

We're kind of damned if we do and damned if we don't so we pay the man and hope for the best. Maybe he'll turn out to be worth it and maybe we won't. I do think it's fair to say that in order for this contract not to be an overpayment his overall performance needs to better than it was over the last 5 years.

Edit - I just looked up Hart voting and I must admit I was a bit surprised to see that the results were exactly the same as the Lindsay voting. I expected similar results, not exact but whatever, these were the results.

2019 - no votes
2020 - 10th
2021 - 2nd
2022 - 1st
2023 - 16th