Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign F Auston Matthews to extension (4 years, $13.25M AAV)

[Stamkos4life]

Not now, nor was I ever a Dubas fanboy but whatever you say.

I care more about Matthews being a Leaf for the next 5 years than I do about him committing right now to the 4 years that will come after. While moves still need to be made, I view the next 5 years as our contention window and having Matthews signed is a big part of that.

And for the third time, I said talking about Matthews potentially being able to set franchise records by the end of this extension is more interesting than debating whether he actually wants to be here on the heels of him committing the rest of his prime years to this club. Anyone questioning his desire to play for this team right now are seriously grasping at straws.

You absolutely were a member of the dubas fan club.

It's easier to deny and hide than admit you were wrong so often.

If you honestly want the Leafs to win the cup, then you should know that paying matthews more than other teams pay their stars and for less term is not going to help us get there.

But instead you tell us we should just be excited matthews will be our franchise leading scorer.

 

[Sypher04]

You absolutely were a member of the dubas fan club.

It's easier to deny and hide than admit you were wrong so often.

If you honestly want the Leafs to win the cup, then you should know that paying matthews more than other teams pay their stars and for less term is not going to help us get there.

But instead you tell us we should just be excited matthews will be our franchise leading scorer.

Stop intentionally misrepresenting my posts to support your pathological need to keep arguments going.

Being a fan of Dubas, which I fully admit to, in no way equates to “fanboyism” which we both know is a different claim entirely. I called him out on many things over the years and haven’t been firmly against removing him at times as others have. Much as you wish to portray the opposite, I’m hardly sitting here viewing his tenure/body of work through rose colored glasses. And I’ve been consistent on the things I’ve disliked dating back to the time they happened.

 

[leafs in five]

If you honestly want the Leafs to win the cup

might need a lie detector test

 

[Hellcat]

You sound a lot like dubas and we all know how good he was at negotiations.

Paying matthews more than mack, pasta, ect and for far fewer years is a huge disadvantage.

If your goal is retain matthews, mission accomplished.

If you want to win the cup, this definitely was not the right move.

I sound like a fan who's opinion is based in logic not feelings.

So 5 more years = impossible to win a cup, 9 more years plan the parade?

 

[Hellcat]

Stop intentionally misrepresenting my posts to support your pathological need to keep arguments going.

Being a fan of Dubas, which I fully admit to, in no way equates to “fanboyism” which we both know is a different claim entirely. I called him out on many things over the years and haven’t been firmly against removing him at times as others have. Much as you wish to portray the opposite, I’m hardly sitting here viewing his tenure/body of work through rose colored glasses. And I’ve been consistent on the things I’ve disliked dating back to the time they happened.

Dude some people dont understand there can be nuance in a person thought process, they need to think everything is binary because it makes it simple for them. I think Dubas is a good hockey mind who was not ready for the job, he cut his teeth while learning how to be a pro GM, I think philosophically his desire to favor transition type players over other skillsets was a big reason why this team only won one round in 7 years. He's a better GM today than he was 7 years ago. His cap mismanagement and his transition game bias is his legacy.

 

[Gaberd2608]

When his contract expires he will be 30. At that time do we think he will be looking for an 8 year deal? I hope whoever the GM at the time is doesn't go past a 4 year deal as per Matthews's contractual tradition.

Some GM out there will offer him a 7 year deal next like we signed Tavares. Hopefully it wont be our GM.

 

[Stephen]

The only person who wants front loaded and full of signing bonuses is matthews. Getting most of your money up front makes such a big difference since you're giving it that much more time to grow in investments. Giving it to him is a concession. We don't need to.

Aav and term matter to the team and the player.

Yet we gave both of those to matthews as well.

Contract structure can be leveraged by the team to gain more concessions from the player generally speaking, but for a rich team it doesn’t make that much of a difference that you need to withhold or be adversarial about it. For example, maybe the Leafs could have played the card differently and extracted a 5th year. But other than that maybe they didn’t to foster good will throughout negotiations.

 

[Stephen]

Dude some people dont understand there can be nuance in a person thought process, they need to think everything is binary because it makes it simple for them. I think Dubas is a good hockey mind who was not ready for the job, he cut his teeth while learning how to be a pro GM, I think philosophically his desire to favor transition type players over other skillsets was a big reason why this team only won one round in 7 years. He's a better GM today than he was 7 years ago. His cap mismanagement and his transition game bias is his legacy.

Dubas is a bright mind but the executive equivalent of an unforced Travis Dermott spin-o-rama in OT. I sense a strong desire for him to succeed but also by doing so by forcing plays that aren’t there and trying to succeed on low percentage gambles. The betting language, the money puck randoms, the insistence of keeping the core together with cap issues. All history of course.

 

[Hellcat]

Contract structure can be leveraged by the team to gain more concessions from the player generally speaking, but for a rich team it doesn’t make that much of a difference that you need to withhold or be adversarial about it. For example, maybe the Leafs could have played the card differently and extracted a 5th year. But other than that maybe they didn’t to foster good will throughout negotiations.

Agreed and then again if Matty was in a pissy mood on the day the Leafs decided to play "hard ball". he might take that as a slight and just decide to go to UFA status and let us compete with the rest of the teams, highest bidder for his services at a UFA rate.

When you let top players like Gaudreau leave for nothing, it reflects poorly on your asset management skills as a GM, you know what they say fool me once...

They did the right thing with Matty, time to make the right decision on Willie, get a bidding war going and trade him for the best package. Do not let him be an own-rental.

Dubas is a bright mind but the executive equivalent of an unforced Travis Dermott spin-o-rama in OT. I sense a strong desire for him to succeed but also by doing so by forcing plays that aren’t there and trying to succeed on low percentage gambles. The betting language, the money puck randoms, the insistence of keeping the core together with cap issues. All history of course.

 

[francis246]

Jake Sanderson just got 8.05 on an 8 year deal. I don’t wanna hear anything about Leafs contracts being shit. I don’t understand how our fan base hates our contracts when these RFA’s on other teams who have proven nothing, never even sniffed the playoffs are getting paid so much.

 

[IPS]

So just to be clear, you think the 92 point guy was propelling the 128 point guy?

No, Tavares was not equivalent to MVP-level Kucherov.

The linemate argument again? This one didn't work out too well the last time for you. Marner and Matthews haven't had much of a problem with quality linemates in their careers.

 

[LeafEgo]

Jake Sanderson just got 8.05 on an 8 year deal. I don’t wanna hear anything about Leafs contracts being shit. I don’t understand how our fan base hates our contracts when these RFA’s on other teams who have proven nothing, never even sniffed the playoffs are getting paid so much.

It's a risk after one nhl year similar to Hughes and Stutzle were early risks. Interesting strategies but seems to be working recently. Tage too after one year although he was older.

He's projecting to be a top line D and had the same D2 stats as Power and Dahlin. If he hits his potential Ottawa's handling of Stutzle for 8.3x8 and Sanderson for 8.0x8 will actually be the best counter examples to the Leafs. Would put Mitchs post ELC contract at ~4M overpaid term adj.

If rumors of Mitch being available a year early at 8.5x8 are true it gets worse.

 

[notbias]

It's a risk after one nhl year similar to Hughes and Stutzle were early risks. Interesting strategies but seems to be working recently. Tage too after one year although he was older.

He's projecting to be a top line D and had the same D2 stats as Power and Dahlin. If he hits his potential Ottawa's handling of Stutzle for 8.3x8 and Sanderson for 8.0x8 will actually be the best counter examples to the Leafs. Would put Mitchs post ELC contract at ~4M overpaid term adj.

If rumors of Mitch being available a year early at 8.5x8 are true it gets worse.

They just did this with a D and he is underperforming though (Chabot).

 

[LeafEgo]

They just did this with a D and he is underperforming though (Chabot).

Win some you lose some I guess, although Chabot isn't a write off just yet. He's had short seasons, possibly from playing almost 30 mins a night. He's also on a 10 team mntc, so there's an out.

But if JS hits and they have Stutzle, Chucky, and Sando for 24M locked up through the cap increases they're going to be an issue - they could have a 10M+ competitive advantage on us for an extended period of time.

 

[keonsbitterness]

When his contract expires he will be 30. At that time do we think he will be looking for an 8 year deal? I hope whoever the GM at the time is doesn't go past a 4 year deal as per Matthews's contractual tradition.

Some GM out there will offer him a 7 year deal next like we signed Tavares. Hopefully it wont be our GM.

Who cares? Worry about that in four years.

 

[francis246]

Win some you lose some I guess, although Chabot isn't a write off just yet. He's had short seasons, possibly from playing almost 30 mins a night. He's also on a 10 team mntc, so there's an out.

But if JS hits and they have Stutzle, Chucky, and Sando for 24M locked up through the cap increases they're going to be an issue - they could have a 10M+ competitive advantage on us for an extended period of time.

Maybe, idk Ottawa’s been saying they are gonna be dangerous but that team just isn’t good enough IMO. I’m more worried about MTL and Buffalo, both have legit scoring, defense, coaching and goaltending.

 

[Stamkos4life]

I sound like a fan who's opinion is based in logic not feelings.

So 5 more years = impossible to win a cup, 9 more years plan the parade?

If someone tells you that you sound like dubas, that should inform you that your logic is flawed.

Where are you getting the bolded from? Most of your posts make very little sense but this one takes the cake.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner and Matthews haven't had much of a problem with quality linemates in their careers.

Matthews and Marner have never played with somebody far superior to them, like Point did in 2018-2019.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I just had a peek at the Ted Lindsay award voting, if I'm not mistaken that's what the Pearson is now called. I assume that's more meaningful than the Hart voting as it's done by the players who presumably are better judges than the press (though I suspect there's probably not a lot of difference in the voting for those two awards). Here's where Matthews has finished over the last 5 years.

2019 - no votes
2020 - 10th
2021 - 2nd
2022 - 1st
2023 - 16th

If we accept that the players votes are meaningful, this indicates that he had not one, but two years where he played at an elite level that justifies paying him top dollar. Still, that's just two years out of the last five and last year was a big step in the wrong direction.

We're kind of damned if we do and damned if we don't so we pay the man and hope for the best. Maybe he'll turn out to be worth it and maybe we won't. I do think it's fair to say that in order for this contract not to be an overpayment his overall performance needs to better than it was over the last 5 years.

Edit - I just looked up Hart voting and I must admit I was a bit surprised to see that the results were exactly the same as the Lindsay voting. I expected similar results, not exact but whatever, these were the results.

2019 - no votes
2020 - 10th
2021 - 2nd
2022 - 1st
2023 - 16th

I just had a peek at McDavid's record in Hart voting over the last 5 years, it's 3rd, 5th, 1st, 2nd, 1st.

I see no argument for Matthews deserving to be paid more than McDavid. I guess that's just the way it goes, the threat of going the UFA route provides massive leverage and if the player decides to use it, he gets overpaid. Oh well, it could have been worse I guess.

 

[Sypher04]

I just had a peek at McDavid's record in Hart voting over the last 5 years, it's 3rd, 5th, 1st, 2nd, 1st.

I see no argument for Matthews deserving to be paid more than McDavid. I guess that's just the way it goes, the threat of going the UFA route provides massive leverage and if the player decides to use it, he gets overpaid. Oh well, it could have been worse I guess.

The argument is time.
Matthews' new deal is less cap percentage at signing than McDavid's was at the same point.
He wasn't paid more than McDavid.
He was just paid under a higher cap landscape.
This is the natural progression of contracts in the NHL. Nothing new.

People are still fully entitled to think it was too much. I would have loved for it to be more like 12.7M, but it was always going to be more than McDavid in AAV.

 

[Mess]

So just to be clear, you think the 92 point guy was propelling the 128 point guy?

No, Tavares was not equivalent to MVP-level Kucherov.

Finally you're catching on.,

Tavares was not the equivalent to the MVP level of Kucherov, never will be and never was.
Didn't stop Leafs GM to give $11 mil to Tavares while MVP Kucherov was making @ $9.5 mil.

"Matthews and Marner never played with anyone at the the equivalent of MVP level Kucherov"

So how do you explain the contracts of Matthews @$11.634 and Marner @ $10.9 mil AAV both making significantly more than MVP Kucherov at @$9.5 mil who propelled Point to take much less?

The JT signing was the beginning of Cap Hell and escalating internal salaries for Matthews and Marner and the fall of Cup competitiveness.

Can't have it both ways ,..

 

[Sypher04]

Say what you want about whether we should have signed Tavares in hindsight, but I maintain to this day Tavares' deal has nothing to do with what our young stars got paid.

Matthews demanded a cap percentage between McDavid & Eichel, as he deserved. And Marner saw himself as equal to Matthews.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Tavares was not the equivalent to the MVP level of Kucherov, never will be and never was.
Didn't stop Leafs GM to give $11 mil to Tavares while MVP Kucherov was making @ $9.5 mil.

Kucherov signed a very good contract, but you're missing some key facts - Kucherov wasn't a UFA, and he signed before that big 128 point MVP season.

"Matthews and Marner never played with anyone at the the equivalent of MVP level Kucherov"

Just to be clear, that's not what I said. Don't misquote me. I said "Matthews and Marner have never played with somebody far superior to them".

So how do you explain the contracts of Matthews @$11.634 and Marner @ $10.9 mil AAV both making significantly more than MVP Kucherov at @$9.5 mil

Kucherov's contract has nothing to do with Matthews' and Marner's post-ELC contracts (which were consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts), and again, Kucherov signed before his MVP season. That's how guaranteed contracts work. You're locked in at your valuation at time of signing, for good or bad.

 

[ACC1224]

Say what you want about whether we should have signed Tavares in hindsight, but I maintain to this day Tavares' deal has nothing to do with what our young stars got paid.

Matthews demanded a cap percentage between McDavid & Eichel, as he deserved. And Marner saw himself as equal to Matthews.

The mistake was signing Matthews before Marner.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Say what you want about whether we should have signed Tavares in hindsight, but I maintain to this day Tavares' deal has nothing to do with what our young stars got paid.

That's pretty obvious. UFA contracts have nothing to do with post-ELC contracts. But arguments against our contracts using actual comparables break down pretty fast, so some try to insert contracts (usually the same handful of the best contracts in recent history) that have nothing to do with anything into the discussion.