Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign F Auston Matthews to extension (4 years, $13.25M AAV)

[acrobaticgoalie]

Would you like a real life example to prove you wrong?

Lets start with a little history lesson before Marner signed.

View attachment 740721

Marner and Point were both coming out of their ELC contracts together with similar points and about to sign bridge deals to sell off their RFA years.

Marner signs first.
View attachment 740723

Brayden Point signs 2nd 10 days later.

View attachment 740724

The difference in Cap Hit between Marner and Point was $4,153,000 mil.

Point lead the 2019-20 and 2020-21 playoffs in goals scored

View attachment 740727

Tampa Bay won 2 X and the difference between in Marner and Point was that $4 mil

PS. Remember how TB with that extra cap space was able to add a player like Nick Paul at TD to their playoff line-up and remember game #7 vs Leafs.

Well yeah, all that plus being 18 million over the cap come playoff time......

 

[Hellcat]

Would you like a real life example to prove you wrong?

Lets start with a little history lesson before Marner signed.

View attachment 740721

Marner and Point were both coming out of their ELC contracts together with similar points and about to sign bridge deals to sell off their RFA years.

Marner signs first.
View attachment 740723

Brayden Point signs 2nd 10 days later.

View attachment 740724

The difference in Cap Hit between Marner and Point was $4,153,000 mil.

Point lead the 2019-20 and 2020-21 playoffs in goals scored

View attachment 740727

Tampa Bay won 2 X and the difference between in Marner and Point was that $4 mil

PS. Remember how TB with that extra cap space was able to add a player like Nick Paul at TD to their playoff line-up and remember game #7 vs Leafs.

Not sure if you are being intentionally disingenuous or if you are not thinking about the impact from other players playing on value contracts, including Stamkos who's contract was signed in 2015, its around a 2 mil discount, Kucherov who was about a 3 mil less than market, Vas who was at 3.5 mil about 6 mil less than market. So you add up 2+3+6+4 , your at 15 mil less than market value and that is not counting the other value contracts that puts that number close to $20mil less than market.. So again Matty taking a 1 to 2 mil slight discount on his new contract, he's already 1 mil to 2 mil lower than market, wont amount to anything. Dubas did a piss poor job managing resources and now fans want their stars to suffer because of it?

It comes down to the coaching, scouting and executive staff executing on drafting, developing and finding complimentary players on value contracts. If Dubas and Co. did that to a slightly average level, we wouldn't be talking about our world class stars taking unreasonable discounts. Who have we drafted outside of the core 3, in the last 5 years that is an every day player on the Leafs roster, Lily?

 

[Racer88]

Well yeah, all that plus being 18 million over the cap come playoff time......

Sounds like a heck of a smart GM to me…….unlike Dubas who blows it on Tavares killing our rebuild

Not sure if you are being intentionally disingenuous or if you are not thinking about the impact from other players playing on value contracts, including Stamkos who's contract was signed in 2015, its around a 2 mil discount, Kucherov who was about a 3 mil less than market, Vas who was at 3.5 mil about 6 mil less than market. So you add up 2+3+6+4 , your at 15 mil less than market value and that is not counting the other value contracts that puts that number close to $20mil less than market.. So again Matty taking a 1 to 2 mil slight discount on his new contract, he's already 1 mil to 2 mil lower than market, wont amount to anything. Dubas did a piss poor job managing resources and now fans want their stars to suffer because of it?

It comes down to the coaching, scouting and executive staff executing on drafting, developing and finding complimentary players on value contracts. If Dubas and Co. did that to a slightly average level, we wouldn't be talking about our world class stars taking unreasonable discounts. Who have we drafted outside of the core 3, in the last 5 years that is an every day player on the Leafs roster, Lily?

Kind of begs the question why we don’t have any of those contracts like Stamkos, Kucherov and others.

 

[mjd1001]

So say he takes 1 mill less, Marner takes 1 mill less and Nylander takes 1 mil less, is that 3 mil really the difference between winning a cup and not? You typically don't find difference makers at 3 mil. Say Marner and Matthews take 2 mill less and Nylander takes 1,5 mil less, that equates to Bertuzzi's contract, is Bertuzzi the missing link? C'mon now.

Its not the player you can sign for just that money. If you save $3m, or $5.5m...its not the single player you can add at that price.

Its the BETTER player you can sign, or resign for that money. Don't think of signing someone for 3 or 5.5 Think of signing someone for $6m INSTEAD of someone you already signed for 3.
Or with that $5.5 mil, think instead of having a $2m and $4m guy, what you could have with a $5 each.

 

[leafs in five]

PS. Remember how TB with that extra cap space was able to add a player like Nick Paul at TD to their playoff line-up and remember game #7 vs Leafs.

the Leads added a player who made the exact same salary as Paul was making last year (Lyubushkin)

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner and Point were both coming out of their ELC contracts together with similar points and about to sign bridge deals to sell off their RFA years.

Point signed a bridge deal. Marner didn't. And Marner was better.

PS. Remember how TB with that extra cap space was able to add a player like Nick Paul at TD to their playoff line-up and remember game #7 vs Leafs.

Nick Paul cost 750k. He had nothing to do with cap space. And not sure why you'd be smiling at remembering that...

 

[Hellcat]

Sounds like a heck of a smart GM to me…….unlike Dubas who blows it on Tavares killing our rebuild


Kind of begs the question why we don’t have any of those contracts like Stamkos, Kucherov and others.

That's a Dubas question.

Its not the player you can sign for just that money. If you save $3m, or $5.5m...its not the single player you can add at that price.

Its the BETTER player you can sign, or resign for that money. Don't think of signing someone for 3 or 5.5 Think of signing someone for $6m INSTEAD of someone you already signed for 3.
Or with that $5.5 mil, think instead of having a $2m and $4m guy, what you could have with a $5 each.

Who are those players that would have moved the needle for this team?

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Sounds like a heck of a smart GM to me…….unlike Dubas who blows it on Tavares killing our rebuild


Kind of begs the question why we don’t have any of those contracts like Stamkos, Kucherov and others.

Dubas did that in the playoffs with acquiring O'Rielly, McCabe, Acciari etc with Muzzin and Murray's LTIR money. We were over the cap

 

[mjd1001]

That's a Dubas question.



Who are those players that would have moved the needle for this team?

I don't know specifically who was available in the past, only the GM would know that for sure in conversations with other GMs. I also don't know who will be available in the future. What I DO know is you are going to have more choice and be able to get better players when you have cap room to pay someone 5 million per year than 2 million per year.

 

[BayStBullies]

Sounds like a heck of a smart GM to me…….unlike Dubas who blows it on Tavares killing our rebuild


Kind of begs the question why we don’t have any of those contracts like Stamkos, Kucherov and others.

Move the team to a tax free state

 

[thewave]

Not sure if you are being intentionally disingenuous or if you are not thinking about the impact from other players playing on value contracts, including Stamkos who's contract was signed in 2015, its around a 2 mil discount, Kucherov who was about a 3 mil less than market, Vas who was at 3.5 mil about 6 mil less than market. So you add up 2+3+6+4 , your at 15 mil less than market value and that is not counting the other value contracts that puts that number close to $20mil less than market.. So again Matty taking a 1 to 2 mil slight discount on his new contract, he's already 1 mil to 2 mil lower than market, wont amount to anything. Dubas did a piss poor job managing resources and now fans want their stars to suffer because of it?

It comes down to the coaching, scouting and executive staff executing on drafting, developing and finding complimentary players on value contracts. If Dubas and Co. did that to a slightly average level, we wouldn't be talking about our world class stars taking unreasonable discounts. Who have we drafted outside of the core 3, in the last 5 years that is an every day player on the Leafs roster, Lily?

It comes down to cap. Ultimately cap = wins. The whole drafting thing has merit but really its just cap at the end if the day. That and someone smart enough to make the right roster choices of course.

 

[Stephen]

Ultimately what’s important is we aren’t in a Vancouver-Pettersson type situation where the player has put a pause and conditions on re-signing.

 

[Racer88]

Dubas did that in the playoffs with acquiring O'Rielly, McCabe, Acciari etc with Muzzin and Murray's LTIR money. We were over the cap

The whole point is they had some of their best players on super value added contracts and our best players were paid like superstars that have won it all when they have won nothing.
As far as being over the cap Tampa had players on the ice that put them over in the playoffs while ours were players that were actually on LTIR

Move the team to a tax free state

Or spend your cap properly. Dubas getting Tavares was the move that killed the rebuild full stop

 

[Hellcat]

It comes down to cap. Ultimately cap = wins. The whole drafting thing has merit but really its just cap at the end if the day. That and someone smart enough to make the right roster choices of course.

Haven't most Cup recent teams spent to the cap or in TB's case way over the cap? In fact most teams spend to teh cap but most teams dont have the skill. Does good coaching = wins? Do we absolve Keefe from the embarrassing 1st round losses against much weaker opponents because of cap? Do we absolve Dubas from building teams that were not playoff teams, only in his last year as GM he figured out you need grit grinders and energy to get to the 1nd round.

There are many ways to build that roster, you can take a hard stance and demand that all of your players take hometown discounts but is that an environment that attracts or retains talent? Could you draft, trade and develop better? Could you use the Tampa Bay Rays model, when stars get close to their big pay day they are traded for younger cheaper elite talent, always making sure you have a cost competitive and talent competitive roster. Dubas could have tried this but you'd need competence and actually have a staff that can assess talent and develop talent. You could have a good coach, that tends to go far in the NHL.

To be myopic and only have one POV how to build a Cup winner is why this team never made it past the first round. One of the greatest coaches of all time was asked why his roster has been at such a high elite level for so long, his response was develop the ability to recognize when you made a mistake and be willing to correct it fast, don't let mistakes fester and he also had the greatest QB to ever play the game, that helps. With Dubas it was cap mismanagement and transition game, transition game, transition game, he stuck to the soft players who had a good transition game one trick pony like it was his life line, that was his downfall.

 

[Hellcat]

Ultimately what’s important is we aren’t in a Vancouver-Pettersson type situation where the player has put a pause and conditions on re-signing.

Rumors are that Las Vegas is hot on trading for Petterson... lets play, Which star is LV trading today to get another elite star ..

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Point signed a bridge deal. Marner didn't. And Marner was better.

Nick Paul cost 750k. He had nothing to do with cap space. And not sure why you'd be smiling at remembering that...

Point was coming from a 40 goal season with the same points as Marner. We are told in all the Matthews comparisons that goals are more important than points.

Point is better at goals. Way better at playoffs. Marner better at points. Very comparable players.

Point career earnings thus far: $31 million.

Marner career earnings thus far: $52 million.

I don't care if the issue is our gm was incompetent or that our players are greedier. I don't care about the lame rationalizations. All I know is that I'm SICK of our players having such a higher aav than their direct comparables. I'm SICK of it.

 

[pcruz]

Ultimately what’s important is we aren’t in a Vancouver-Pettersson type situation where the player has put a pause and conditions on re-signing.

Are you sure?

I was told, over the course of a year, that Auston wanted to leave badly.

Wanted AZ, or CA (LA specifically).

And when he hadn't signed by laye June, we had people freaking out already.

When he didn't sign July 1, stories were rampant about how he was a gonner and had played us like Johnny Hockey did Calgary.
He was accused of paying lip service the whole time.

 

[Stephen]

Are you sure?

I was told, over the course of a year, that Auston wanted to leave badly.

Wanted AZ, or CA (LA specifically).

And when he hadn't signed by laye June, we had people freaking out already.

When he didn't sign July 1, stories were rampant about how he was a gonner and had played us like Johnny Hockey did Calgary.
He was accused of paying lip service the whole time.

Might be time to let it go man...

 

[Dekes For Days]

Point was coming from a 40 goal season with the same points as Marner.

Yes, he did benefit heavily from things like Kucherov's 128 point MVP season and other advantages that Marner didn't have, but that just goes to show that similar raw points in one particular season =/= equal players. Marner was better.

I don't care if the issue is our gm was incompetent or that our players are greedier.

Neither are the issue.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Are you sure?

I was told, over the course of a year, that Auston wanted to leave badly.

Wanted AZ, or CA (LA specifically).

And when he hadn't signed by laye June, we had people freaking out already.

When he didn't sign July 1, stories were rampant about how he was a gonner and had played us like Johnny Hockey did Calgary.
He was accused of paying lip service the whole time.

I was also told he loved being here and wanted to play for the leafs.

Then he demanded to be the highest paid player on only a 4 years contract. Some love.

 

[notbias]

Or spend your cap properly. Dubas getting Tavares was the move that killed the rebuild full stop

I am assuming winning will be simple in 2 years' time then...

I have my doubts.

Also, we started spending draft capital first year of Matthews... that is when we stopped the rebuild. Rebuilding teams don't start spending draft capital to acquire rentals.

 

[Sypher04]

Might be time to let it go man...

The people who have spent the last few years telling us ad nauseum that he won’t re-sign here haven’t eaten nearly enough crow to this point, but I’m inclined to agree. It’s serving no purpose

I was also told he loved being here and wanted to play for the leafs.

Then he demanded to be the highest paid player on only a 4 years contract. Some love.

Don’t be ridiculous.

No elite player signs for 4 years somewhere they don’t love playing and ultimately want to be.

If he felt otherwise he could have very easily walked to UFA and gotten this contract

 

[Mess]

I was also told he loved being here and wanted to play for the leafs.

Then he demanded to be the highest paid player on only a 4 years contract. Some love.

Begs the question ..

If the Leafs didn't agree to make Auston the highest paid player in the game would he still be a Leaf today?

Had the Leafs agreed to give him his $13.25 mil ask but insisted on full term what would have been the outcome?.

Both situations would have tested his true love of the Leafs.

 

[pcruz]

Begs the question ..

If the Leafs didn't agree to make Auston the highest paid player in the game would he still be a Leaf today?

Had the Leafs agreed to give him his $13.25 mil ask but insisted on full term what would have been the outcome?.

Both situations would have tested his true love of the Leafs.

Well, we all know he grew up idolizing the Leafs.
He definitely wore Maple Leaf pj's and was thoroughly excited the 1 day per year they went to the desert to play.....


I'm curious.
Why would professional athletes have to profess their love for their employers?

 

[Sypher04]

Begs the question ..

If the Leafs didn't agree to make Auston the highest paid player in the game would he still be a Leaf today?

Had the Leafs agreed to give him his $13.25 mil ask but insisted on full term what would have been the outcome?.

Both situations would have tested his true love of the Leafs.

Matthews not signing 8 years is in no way an indication of a desire to not want to be here longer. Signing for 5, then 4, is a clear indication that his philosophy for contracts is more on the mid term but it really doesn’t say much beyond that. It’s not like there is anything stopping him from extending again in 4 years. In fact, it’s the most likely scenario.

There’s a very real chance that Matthews is #1 in both goals and points all time for the Maple Leafs by the time this extension ends and this is the kind of crap you people would rather talk about…