Line Combos: Leafs roster [Before] & [After] and work in progress

[Zonk]

One of the most interesting aspects about Kampf was pointed out above, that by usage he's pretty much a defensive 3C and that might free Kerfoot for top 6 LW.

Ritchie-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Bunting-Kampf-Kase
Mikheyev-Engvall/Brooks - Spezza/Simmonds

Soup can slot up if Kase gets hurt. Rotate the old boys to keep em fresh, good old fashioned training camp battle between Brooks and Engvall

Your proposed lines are close to what I had come up with, but have the same two flaws. The cap hit would be about $650,000 over the limit and there would be 14 forwards and only six defence on the roster.
One solution is to trade a forward making over $1.5 million and adding a 7th defenceman on their ELC on at league minimum. The only forward candidates that I see to trade are Kerfoot or Mikheyev.
Another solution is removing any two forwards to add the 7th defenceman. We risk losing one or both of the removed forwards (unless they are traded) because they will need to be waived.

 

[Zonk]

I believe that the Leafs roster during the playoffs had a cap hit that was over $90 million. (I am not sure of the exact figure; if someone can provide it it would be appreciated.)
It should be expected that a projected roster for next season with a cap hit below $81.5 million will not be as strong as last year's playoff roster. It would be better to compare the strength of next year's roster to the strength of the roster when last season started.

 

[socko]

View attachment 459044

Tbh ideally we'd take a few from the 1-3 row, add one to the 3-5 row, and a few to the <1 row.

There is no reason to cutoff the top at 7+ unless you have an agenda.
7 - 9
9 - 11
11+

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

Your proposed lines are close to what I had come up with, but have the same two flaws. The cap hit would be about $650,000 over the limit and there would be 14 forwards and only six defence on the roster.
One solution is to trade a forward making over $1.5 million and adding a 7th defenceman on their ELC on at league minimum. The only forward candidates that I see to trade are Kerfoot or Mikheyev.
Another solution is removing any two forwards to add the 7th defenceman. We risk losing one or both of the removed forwards (unless they are traded) because they will need to be waived.

Who is on your roster that you are 650,000K over the cap? This is a roster I put together that is 78K over the cap but it is a full 23 man roster.

Ritchie-Matthews-Marner 25,070,550M
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander 21,462,366M
Engvall-Kampf-Mikheyev 4,395,000M
Bunting-Brooks-Spezza 2,425,000M
Simmonds-Kase 2,150,000M
55,502,916M

Rielly-Brodie 10,000,000M
Muzzin-Holl 7,625,000M
Dermott-Menell 2,250,000M
Biega 750,000M
20,625,000

Campbell 1,650,000M
Mrazek 3,800,000
5,450,000
81,577,916

This 23 man roster is over the cap by 78K dollars and it all comes down to Kase's health. If healthy, Kase will be among the top 9, depending on the role they want him to play. If he is viewed as a defensive player by management, he will be on the 3rd line and 1 of Engvall or Mikheyev would be moved. If they see him as more of a scorer, Kerfoot might be the one to be moved. If he's not healthy, he will be placed on LTIR. I have Simmonds as an extra as I don't see him as a fit in the top 9. He isn't good enough defensively to play on my 3rd line, and so I have him rotating in and out with Spezza on the 4th line. I don't feel like Simmonds and Spezza should ever be in the lineup together, and if they are, they should never be on the same line.

 

[Zonk]

Who is on your roster that you are 650,000K over the cap? This is a roster I put together that is 78K over the cap but it is a full 23 man roster.

Ritchie-Matthews-Marner 25,070,550M
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander 21,462,366M
Engvall-Kampf-Mikheyev 4,395,000M
Bunting-Brooks-Spezza 2,425,000M
Simmonds-Kase 2,150,000M
55,502,916M

Rielly-Brodie 10,000,000M
Muzzin-Holl 7,625,000M
Dermott-Menell 2,250,000M
Biega 750,000M
20,625,000

Campbell 1,650,000M
Mrazek 3,800,000
5,450,000
81,577,916

This 23 man roster is over the cap by 78K dollars and it all comes down to Kase's health. If healthy, Kase will be among the top 9, depending on the role they want him to play. If he is viewed as a defensive player by management, he will be on the 3rd line and 1 of Engvall or Mikheyev would be moved. If they see him as more of a scorer, Kerfoot might be the one to be moved. If he's not healthy, he will be placed on LTIR. I have Simmonds as an extra as I don't see him as a fit in the top 9. He isn't good enough defensively to play on my 3rd line, and so I have him rotating in and out with Spezza on the 4th line. I don't feel like Simmonds and Spezza should ever be in the lineup together, and if they are, they should never be on the same line.

You forgot Kessel.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Heh. Truly amazing how dedicated you are to your spin that you can't admit what's obvious to literally everyone else.

But keep maintaining that he was a borderline #4 dman despite being nothing close to that, to fit you narrative if you need to.

Everyone else can see that a 14mpg dman is nothing remotely close to a top4 dman.

I never said he was a #4 dman, I said that he was one of our top 5 dmen and if some wanted to put him ahead of Holl I'm not interested in disputing that. Then you started with the numbers with Dermott, Sandin, even Liljegren LOL.

Since you're no longer arguing about him being one of our top 5 and have shifted the goalposts to a strawman, I assume you finally concede that Bogo was one of our top 5 Dmen which is what I was saying all along. Glad to have you aboard, you can stop spinning now.

 

[Clark4Ever]

You forgot Kessel.

We can't afford him even at 50% retained unless we trade around 3 million in salary off the roster.

 

[Macallan18]

I believe that the Leafs roster during the playoffs had a cap hit that was over $90 million. (I am not sure of the exact figure; if someone can provide it it would be appreciated.)
It should be expected that a projected roster for next season with a cap hit below $81.5 million will not be as strong as last year's playoff roster. It would be better to compare the strength of next year's roster to the strength of the roster when last season started.

Yeah, because Foligno and his cap hit made us soooo much stronger in the playoffs.

 

[Macallan18]

We can't afford him even at 50% retained unless we trade around 3 million in salary off the roster.

Yeah, but he only has 1 year left on his salary!!! That we are already paying 1 mil of. Gone next year.

 

[francis246]

We can't afford him even at 50% retained unless we trade around 3 million in salary off the roster.

we are paying a portion of his salary right now is what he means

 

[Clark4Ever]

we are paying a portion of his salary right now is what he means

Got it.

 

[Ashdown2]

Who is on your roster that you are 650,000K over the cap? This is a roster I put together that is 78K over the cap but it is a full 23 man roster.

Ritchie-Matthews-Marner 25,070,550M
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander 21,462,366M
Engvall-Kampf-Mikheyev 4,395,000M
Bunting-Brooks-Spezza 2,425,000M
Simmonds-Kase 2,150,000M
55,502,916M

Rielly-Brodie 10,000,000M
Muzzin-Holl 7,625,000M
Dermott-Menell 2,250,000M
Biega 750,000M
20,625,000

Campbell 1,650,000M
Mrazek 3,800,000
5,450,000
81,577,916

This 23 man roster is over the cap by 78K dollars and it all comes down to Kase's health. If healthy, Kase will be among the top 9, depending on the role they want him to play. If he is viewed as a defensive player by management, he will be on the 3rd line and 1 of Engvall or Mikheyev would be moved. If they see him as more of a scorer, Kerfoot might be the one to be moved. If he's not healthy, he will be placed on LTIR. I have Simmonds as an extra as I don't see him as a fit in the top 9. He isn't good enough defensively to play on my 3rd line, and so I have him rotating in and out with Spezza on the 4th line. I don't feel like Simmonds and Spezza should ever be in the lineup together, and if they are, they should never be on the same line.

do you really think menell is better than sandin or even liligren ?

kerfoot - matthews - nylander
richie - tavares - marner
bunting - kampf - mikheyev
engvall/robertson - brooks - spezza/simmonds

reilly - brodie
muzzin - holl / liligren
sandin - dermott /holl

kerfoot is a placeholder. Ideally he is traded for cap space and try and get tatar or someone with a little higher offensive output. I like him but on this team we cant afford a 30 point 2 way player at 3.5 mil. if seattle still wants him we could probably work out a trade for lauzon.
im still hoping liligren will blow us away in camp so we can see a muzzin liligren pairing,

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

You forgot Kessel.

Ah I see

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

do you really think menell is better than sandin or even liligren ?

kerfoot - matthews - nylander
richie - tavares - marner
bunting - kampf - mikheyev
engvall/robertson - brooks - spezza/simmonds

reilly - brodie
muzzin - holl / liligren
sandin - dermott /holl

kerfoot is a placeholder. Ideally he is traded for cap space and try and get tatar or someone with a little higher offensive output. I like him but on this team we cant afford a 30 point 2 way player at 3.5 mil. if seattle still wants him we could probably work out a trade for lauzon.
im still hoping liligren will blow us away in camp so we can see a muzzin liligren pairing,

No idea. Never seen menell play. But imo menell isn't competing with them for a roster spot. He's fighting biega, and dahlstrom for the 3rd pair spot. Because liljegren and sandin both still have waiver exemption, my philosophy is that they need to beat out 1 of the top 4 guys. It doesn't mean much to be better than the bottom pairing guys.

 

[hockeynorth]

the more I think about it, I'm thinking we go like this to start and slowly integrate the younger forwards a la Kapanen/Johnsson

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Ritchie-Kampf-Kase
Mikheyev-Spezza-Simmonds
Gabriel

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
Dermott-Holl
Sandin

Campbell
Mrazek

a few months in:

Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Robertson-Tavares-Marner
Ritchie-Kerfoot-Kase
Mikheyev-Kampf-Anderson
Spezza/Simmonds

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
Sandin-Holl/Dermott
Menell

Campbell
Mrazek

 

[zeke]

I never said he was a #4 dman, I said that he was one of our top 5 dmen and if some wanted to put him ahead of Holl I'm not interested in disputing that. Then you started with the numbers with Dermott, Sandin, even Liljegren LOL.

Since you're no longer arguing about him being one of our top 5 and have shifted the goalposts to a strawman, I assume you finally concede that Bogo was one of our top 5 Dmen which is what I was saying all along. Glad to have you aboard, you can stop spinning now.

You said he was solidly #5 and arguably #4.

As the numbers make clear, he was no such thing. He was a strict bottom pair dman in a strict low usage bottom pair role, averaging 14:32 per game - less ice time than many if not most #6 dmen get on other teams.

 

[zeke]

No idea. Never seen menell play. But imo menell isn't competing with them for a roster spot. He's fighting biega, and dahlstrom for the 3rd pair spot. Because liljegren and sandin both still have waiver exemption, my philosophy is that they need to beat out 1 of the top 4 guys. It doesn't mean much to be better than the bottom pairing guys.

Mennell's 2 way contract + the fact that we get our 7th back if someone plucks him off waivers from us makes it pretty clear they're going to send him down imo.

Biega and Dahlstrom are obviously exactly the kind of dmen that clear waivers too.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

Mennell's 2 way contract + the fact that we get our 7th back if someone plucks him off waivers from us makes it pretty clear they're going to send him down imo.

Biega and Dahlstrom are obviously exactly the kind of dmen that clear waivers too.

Menell needs to play 30 games for the leafs to lose that 7th rounder. It's very easy to play around that. They could easily run with 6 d, menell being 1 of them and rotate him in and out of the lineup all year with sandin and liljegren getting call ups all year. And I'm not worried about biega or dahlstrom being claimed. I see them possibly being in this rotation if that's the route they choose.

 

[egd27]

There is no reason to cutoff the top at 7+ unless you have an agenda.
7 - 9
9 - 11
11+

Agenda? Nah, couldn't be.

 

[hockeynorth]

New idea

Nylander-Matthews-Kase --> the entries on this line would be absurd and really open Matthews up
Bunting-Tavares-Marner --> this line would play well to Marners skillset giving him a net front presence in Bunting and also a far out shot threat in JT, also similar to the line Bunting thrived on, and JT has been known to elevate guys so should help Bunting, also reliable both ways
Ritchie-Kerfoot-Spezza --> could be a good ozone line, Kerfoot has the wheels, Spezza can handle the draws and has super high IQ to capitalize on Kerfoot and Ritchies skills, and Ritchie brings a heavier presence to Kerfoot who usually got beat up on
Semyonov-Kampf-Mikheyev --> this is your "checking"/"dzone" line, three guys known to be reliable in the dzone, and a fellow Russian for Semyonov while he gets used to the NHL game, with a super reliable C in between to also cover any mishaps

then depth:

Josh Ho-Sang --> if he hits, he could replace Spezza or Bunting, reshuffling this entire thing
Joey Anderson --> I'd expect him in the bottom six at some point for sure, likely rotating with Spezza, Simmonds and Semyonov
Wayne Simmonds --> rotating with Semyonov, Spezza and Kampf as needed to keep guys fresh, PP and physicality option
Nick Robertson --> top six option for later in the season
Kurtis Gabriel --> basically our hitman, literally and figuratively
Adam Brooks --> 4C option
Pierre Engvall --> I expect him traded, but if not, another bottom sixer

 

[OVO16]

Ritchie - Mathews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Kase
J. Anderson - Spezza - Simmonds

I wanna give Joey Anderson a chance. He looks like he has the tools to be a very Pesty/Speedy and effective 4th Liner.

 

[Zonk]

We can't afford him even at 50% retained unless we trade around 3 million in salary off the roster.

I was not suggesting reacquiring Kessel, but saying that his $1.2 million of salary retention needs to be included in any cap calculation for the Leafs. The poster to whom I was responding had omitted this.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I was not suggesting reacquiring Kessel, but saying that his $1.2 million of salary retention needs to be included in any cap calculation for the Leafs. The poster to whom I was responding had omitted this.

 

[zeke]

New idea

Nylander-Matthews-Kase --> the entries on this line would be absurd and really open Matthews up
Bunting-Tavares-Marner --> this line would play well to Marners skillset giving him a net front presence in Bunting and also a far out shot threat in JT, also similar to the line Bunting thrived on, and JT has been known to elevate guys so should help Bunting, also reliable both ways
Ritchie-Kerfoot-Spezza --> could be a good ozone line, Kerfoot has the wheels, Spezza can handle the draws and has super high IQ to capitalize on Kerfoot and Ritchies skills, and Ritchie brings a heavier presence to Kerfoot who usually got beat up on
Semyonov-Kampf-Mikheyev --> this is your "checking"/"dzone" line, three guys known to be reliable in the dzone, and a fellow Russian for Semyonov while he gets used to the NHL game, with a super reliable C in between to also cover any mishaps

then depth:

Josh Ho-Sang --> if he hits, he could replace Spezza or Bunting, reshuffling this entire thing
Joey Anderson --> I'd expect him in the bottom six at some point for sure, likely rotating with Spezza, Simmonds and Semyonov
Wayne Simmonds --> rotating with Semyonov, Spezza and Kampf as needed to keep guys fresh, PP and physicality option
Nick Robertson --> top six option for later in the season
Kurtis Gabriel --> basically our hitman, literally and figuratively
Adam Brooks --> 4C option
Pierre Engvall --> I expect him traded, but if not, another bottom sixer

With you right up until you put in semyonov over Engvall.

 

[hockeynorth]

With you right up until you put in semyonov over Engvall.

I think Engvall gets traded, and as a Euro Rookie Semyonov gets his shot a la Barabanov/Lehtonen