Line Combos: Leafs roster [Before] & [After] and work in progress

[NJG]

Ritchie Matthews Marner
Kerfoot Tavares Nylander
Bunting Kämpf Mikheyev
Robertson Spezza Kase
Simmonds/Engvall/Brooks/Gabriel

Bury both Engvall (1,250,000) & Simmonds (900,000) and use that 2m elsewhere.

They didn't resign Simmonds to bury him, If that was the case they wouldn't even of bothered resigning him to begin with. He's playing on the roster.

 

[Nylander88]

Ritchie - Mathews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Kase
J. Anderson - Spezza - Simmonds

I wanna give Joey Anderson a chance. He looks like he has the tools to be a very Pesty/Speedy and effective 4th Liner.

There's no way Kampf just signed for 2yrs @ 1.5m per and isn't in that lineup. He's a 4C defensive player who can win draws and will be on our top PK unit. I do like Anderson getting in there with Spez and Simmer, even if its his off wing...but Kampf is gonna play. Big reason why I want Mikheyev moved. Change you're third line to Kerfoot-Kampf-Kase with Mikheyev moved out and I like it

 

[Rielly4]

I think Kerfoot could end up on the wing but I'm of the opinion that he wont.

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Ritchie-Tavares-Nylander
Robertson-Kerfoot-Kase
Mikheyev-Kampf-Spezza

Could be something like this. Simmonds as the extra, good chance Kase wont play and Spezza gets bumped to 3rd line.

I think that Robertson should make the team. Hes likely our most skilled LW in the entire system.

 

[Nylander88]

I think that Robertson should make the team. Hes likely our most skilled LW in the entire system.

I really like Robertson, and I think he'll get some looks if and when injuries arise. But I don't think he's in the opening lineup myself. He's still very young and injuries derailed his season last year. I think you let him build up confidence and hopefully dominate at the AHL level logging big minutes next season

 

[Gary Nylund]

You said he was solidly #5 and arguably #4.

As the numbers make clear, he was no such thing. He was a strict bottom pair dman in a strict low usage bottom pair role, averaging 14:32 per game - less ice time than many if not most #6 dmen get on other teams.

My dear friend, what I said several times was that he was one of our top 5 Dmen and therefore, losing him would hurt. The only time I ever mentioned "4" was in brackets referring to other people's opinions and in the same sentence I clearly stated that he was our "#5 guy" which is backed by the fact that in the playoffs, we had 5 Dmen who played every game when they were healthy and he was one of them. Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin, Holl and Bogosian, those were the 5 guys, other guys rotated in out, it's not complicated. First you argued that he was not one of our top 5 going on about Dermott, Sandin etc. Now you've stopped arguing that (yay), and you're desperately trying to spin what I said.

Not sure why you're so obsessed with twisting around what I said. You seem to finally agree that he was one of out top 5 guys so give it a rest already.

 

[VanW27]

I think Kerfoot could end up on the wing but I'm of the opinion that he wont.

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Ritchie-Tavares-Nylander
Robertson-Kerfoot-Kase
Mikheyev-Kampf-Spezza

Could be something like this. Simmonds as the extra, good chance Kase wont play and Spezza gets bumped to 3rd line.

I think that Robertson should make the team. Hes likely our most skilled LW in the entire system.

That's pretty close to what I have, but I don't think they want to move Spezza up to the 3rd line for any extended amount of time.

I'd say Kase and Simmonds share the 3rd line RW spot since neither can really be counted on full time due to injuries and poor play. Based on Simmonds being terrible and Kase an unknown I think there's a good chance we'd be better off with a defensive 3rd line of Engvall-Kerfoot-Mikheyev but Keefe/Dubas seem committed to playing Simmonds regardless of how bad he is.

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Ritchie-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Kase/Simmonds
Engvall-Kampf-Spezza

Anderson/Brooks fight with Engvall for the final LW spot.

If Robertson is ready the LWs shuffle accordingly

Ritchie-Matthews-Marner
Roberson-Tavares-Nylander
Bunting-Kerfoot-Kase/Simmonds
Mikheyev-Kampf-Spezza

Bunting is probably a better fit on the 3rd line than Ritchie or Robertson would be if it's going to be used more as a defensive unit.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I think Kerfoot could end up on the wing but I'm of the opinion that he wont.

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Ritchie-Tavares-Nylander
Robertson-Kerfoot-Kase
Mikheyev-Kampf-Spezza

Could be something like this. Simmonds as the extra, good chance Kase wont play and Spezza gets bumped to 3rd line.

I think that Robertson should make the team. Hes likely our most skilled LW in the entire system.

Robertson is not ready. Let him cook for a full season with the Marlies

 

[OVO16]

There's no way Kampf just signed for 2yrs @ 1.5m per and isn't in that lineup. He's a 4C defensive player who can win draws and will be on our top PK unit. I do like Anderson getting in there with Spez and Simmer, even if its his off wing...but Kampf is gonna play. Big reason why I want Mikheyev moved. Change you're third line to Kerfoot-Kampf-Kase with Mikheyev moved out and I like it

Oh shit lmao...I completely forgot about Kampf lmao. My bad

 

[ShaneFalco]

Nick Robertson

I will preface this by saying I am not as high on Robertson as many observers, pundits, and fans are at this stage of his development. He needs to get stronger and become more difficult to knock off the puck. Too many AHL defenders have effectively neutralized Robertson by playing physically against the rookie.
The left-winger also developed a tendency to skate into dead-ends aka Kasperi Kapanen. This was especially prevalent when Toronto was struggling to create offense and he tried to take it on himself to carry the load.
In short, I believe Robertson requires more time to develop in the American League. His professional career has been stunted by the pandemic — he has suited up for just 10 games in the NHL and 21 in the AHL.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021...season-players-to-keep-an-eye-on-for-2021-22/

 

[Mess]

Robertson is not ready. Let him cook for a full season with the Marlies

I agree. He needs to get bigger and stronger to be an NHL regular as he simply gets knocked down far too easily at this stage, and needs to develop a better lower sense of gravity and that comes again with hitting the weight room and building up some more muscle in this legs particularly.

Lots of playing time in all situations in the AHL also would benefit his development, as due to injuries and covid19 he really hasn't played a lot of hockey this past year, and I'm guessing a couple dozen games without looking it up officially.

When he arrives in the NHL you would like him to be at a level where you can toss him into your top 6 and expect a fairly consistent contribution based on linemates and icetime.

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[zeke]

Nick Robertson

Reflecting on the Toronto Marlies' 2020-21 season, players to keep an eye on for 2021-22 | Maple Leafs Hotstove

He could be right. Though there's a chance he's just looking too much into one injury-shortened already short season for Nick.

but why didn't you pick other prospects to highlight from that article, if you care for his opinion? like this one:

Timothy Liljegren

Liljegren was head and shoulders the best defenseman on the team across all three zones. He was Toronto’s MVP despite playing just 21 games.

There were points in games where he would take control by orchestrating a solo breakout, creating spells of offensive zone time for Toronto. He took more responsibility offensively, averaging almost 2.5 shots per game, well above his career average. His production did not compare to 2019-20, but given a longer season of play, I am convinced he would have inched closer to 0.75 PPG, if not better.

Liljegren proved that he is too good to linger in the American League any longer. Leafs brass now has to decide whether to give him an extended NHL opportunity.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He could be right. Though there's a chance he's just looking too much into one injury-shortened already short season for Nick.

but why didn't you pick other prospects to highlight from that article, if you care for his opinion? like this one:

Timothy Liljegren

Liljegren was head and shoulders the best defenseman on the team across all three zones. He was Toronto’s MVP despite playing just 21 games.

There were points in games where he would take control by orchestrating a solo breakout, creating spells of offensive zone time for Toronto. He took more responsibility offensively, averaging almost 2.5 shots per game, well above his career average. His production did not compare to 2019-20, but given a longer season of play, I am convinced he would have inched closer to 0.75 PPG, if not better.

Liljegren proved that he is too good to linger in the American League any longer. Leafs brass now has to decide whether to give him an extended NHL opportunity.

Just because most have Robertson in the top 6

 

[Dekes For Days]

Just because most have Robertson in the top 6

I counted about 61 lineups posted in this thread. 5 had Robertson in the top 6.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I counted about 61 lineups posted in this thread. 5 had Robertson in the top 6.

Wow you checked that lol
Ok ok ok I should have said "some". I'll go sit in the corner now

 

[Racer88]

View attachment 459250

There was until he threw it all away by promoting Dubas

 

[myleafs]

More feeling than fact.

Let's run this through yet again.

Leafs were 8-3-2 wihout Hyman.
Leafs were 8-1-2 without Bogosian.

(The lone regulation loss for Bogosian and one of the Hyman losses was the final game of the season when seeding were locked in and players were being rested).

Leafs record with any goalie other than Andersen - 22-6-4.

Those are the 3 biggest player losses. The Leafs did not suffer without them in the lineup.

Tampa lost Gourde, Johnson, Coleman, and Goodrow.
Boston lost both goalies - Halak and Rask.
Florida lost the guy who was their #1G stats wise, along with many having unforeseen career years.

The Leafs arguably are in the best shape of all Atlantic teams heading into the 21/22 season.

I was listening up until your last line....there is no tangible proof of that assertion and until they prove it, I'm having a hard time believing it.

 

[kb]

I was listening up until your last line....there is no tangible proof of that assertion and until they prove it, I'm having a hard time believing it.

That is the beauty of it. It doesn't actually require belief.

Mrazek > last 2 seasons Freddy
Ritchie/Bunting @ $3.45 million > $5.5 million Hyman (especially post-injury Hyman)
Bogosian was a loss, but the Leafs were 8-1-2 without him with the only regulation loss being the 11th (and final game of the season), so that impact has yet to be determined as well.

All other teams lost big pieces - FL/Bos lost in the most important position (goalie), and Tampa lost a ton of forward depth (Gourde, Johnson, Coleman, Goodrow).

And the Leafs had more points than all of them other than FL....who had several forwards overachieve off the waiver wire and dumpster dives.

I still think there will be moves to come....I really can't find a natural 4 line fit as no matter what, as Simmonds isn't in my starting lineup even though we all know he will be.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That is the beauty of it. It doesn't actually require belief.

Mrazek > last 2 seasons Freddy
Ritchie/Bunting @ $3.45 million > $5.5 million Hyman (especially post-injury Hyman)
Bogosian was a loss, but the Leafs were 8-1-2 without him with the only regulation loss being the 11th (and final game of the season), so that impact has yet to be determined as well.

All other teams lost big pieces - FL/Bos lost in the most important position (goalie), and Tampa lost a ton of forward depth (Gourde, Johnson, Coleman, Goodrow).

And the Leafs had more points than all of them other than FL....who had several forwards overachieve off the waiver wire and dumpster dives.

I still think there will be moves to come....I really can't find a natural 4 line fit as no matter what, as Simmonds isn't in my starting lineup even though we all know he will be.

Come on now, I think you're smarter than that. There was another time when one of our stars went down and we had an amazing record (Matthews I think?) but that doesn't mean we're better off without him.


There's zero point in comparing us to other teams in the summer. We're so awesome every summer and lose in round 1 every spring so I think it makes sense to wait until we at least win one round before bragging about having more points then this team and who overachieved for that team and how other teams lost this and that. It's the same shit every year, don't you get tired of it?

 

[mydnyte]

I counted about 61 lineups posted in this thread. 5 had Robertson in the top 6.

Robertson is either in the top 6, or on the Marlies, he's wasted playing lower in the lineup

 

[ShaneFalco]

Robertson is either in the top 6, or on the Marlies, he's wasted playing lower in the lineup

Yup true. He needs to work on his strength - still too easily pushed off the puck

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I agree. He needs to get bigger and stronger to be an NHL regular as he simply gets knocked down far too easily at this stage, and needs to develop a better lower sense of gravity and that comes again with hitting the weight room and building up some more muscle in this legs particularly.

Lots of playing time in all situations in the AHL also would benefit his development, as due to injuries and covid19 he really hasn't played a lot of hockey this past year, and I'm guessing a couple dozen games without looking it up officially.

When he arrives in the NHL you would like him to be at a level where you can toss him into your top 6 and expect a fairly consistent contribution based on linemates and icetime.

I've also seen him skate himself into trouble a number of times leaving himself prone to being hit. On top of working on skating, strength and balance he needs to learn not to get hit so much. Start him off in the Ahl and let him figure it out and work his way up.

 

[myleafs]

That is the beauty of it. It doesn't actually require belief.

Mrazek > last 2 seasons Freddy
Ritchie/Bunting @ $3.45 million > $5.5 million Hyman (especially post-injury Hyman)
Bogosian was a loss, but the Leafs were 8-1-2 without him with the only regulation loss being the 11th (and final game of the season), so that impact has yet to be determined as well.

All other teams lost big pieces - FL/Bos lost in the most important position (goalie), and Tampa lost a ton of forward depth (Gourde, Johnson, Coleman, Goodrow).

And the Leafs had more points than all of them other than FL....who had several forwards overachieve off the waiver wire and dumpster dives.

I still think there will be moves to come....I really can't find a natural 4 line fit as no matter what, as Simmonds isn't in my starting lineup even though we all know he will be.

I just can't bet against Tampa and Boston. Ive gone from hating the Bruins to respecting the hell out of them. I think Hall has a great year knowing he doesn't have to be the "man" and if Foligno is healthy he will fit in like a glove.

Even if Tampa lost its 3rd line, their top 5 players are still really really good and who's to say the new 3rd line doesn't play up to the level of the departed 3rd line. And with both these teams, maybe more importantly, is that they know what it takes to win and are willing to do it. That is something you need to experience before you understand it and our boys don't understand it, not yet anyways.

Florida is not in the same league but still a good team and if Bob can get his act together they are a very good team.

So, I'm just not buying we are better than the mentioned teams. I have drank that koolaide too many times.

You might be right in your assessment but just as likely you might be wrong. This is the shut up or put up year for the leafs. I think a lot of us thought it may have been this past year but I believe this is the year we find out what we really have or don't have.

FTR I want the leafs to shove my doubt right up my arse and show me what an idiot I was to question their capableness.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I just can't bet against Tampa and Boston. Ive gone from hating the Bruins to respecting the hell out of them. I think Hall has a great year knowing he doesn't have to be the "man" and if Foligno is healthy he will fit in like a glove.

Even if Tampa lost its 3rd line, their top 5 players are still really really good and who's to say the new 3rd line doesn't play up to the level of the departed 3rd line. And with both these teams, maybe more importantly, is that they know what it takes to win and are willing to do it. That is something you need to experience before you understand it and our boys don't understand it, not yet anyways.

Florida is not in the same league but still a good team and if Bob can get his act together they are a very good team.

So, I'm just not buying we are better than the mentioned teams. I have drank that koolaide too many times.

You might be right in your assessment but just as likely you might be wrong. This is the shut up or put up year for the leafs. I think a lot of us thought it may have been this past year but I believe this is the year we find out what we really have or don't have.

FTR I want the leafs to shove my doubt right up my arse and show me what an idiot I was to question their capableness.

Agree completely, great post. I heard the Bruins were about to fade away a few years back, still waiting and I agree that Foligno and Hall are likely to be great adds for them. Also agree completely about TB's 3rd line, their core is still intact and who knows what replacements will do for them? I mean I keep reading about how we won't miss Hyman and Bogosian or anyone else because all these low wage spare parts we picked up will be so awesome so where's the logic in assuming that the new TB guys will suck? And boy they'd have to really suck hard for that team to come down to our level, anyone thinking we have reason to think we match up well against TB next season is just nuts IMO.

It's always the same story, all the guys we sign will be so amazing and people are going crazy over Ritchie who has been a lazy bum his entire career. How some people think he will be better than Hyman who just signed a 7 year deal for more money per year than Ritchie will be paid for his two years here is beyond me and on and on it goes. What a joke.

 

[Sypher04]

I find it both hilarious and infuriating seeing the comments comparing our division sometimes. Tampa loses a bunch of players, that's okay they'll figure it out. Boston loses a bunch of players, that's okay they'll figure it out. Florida loses a few players or is banking on repeat seasons from some real surprise players, that's okay it'll work out. The Leafs lose a couple players, the sky is falling, our management is stupid, our window has closed, we aren't even a playoff team...

The only thing that is actually different is we watch this team, game in and game out, and know all its flaws and warts.

The grass will always be greener elsewhere to many. The moves we've made have every chance of working out equally well to the ones our divisional rivals have.