Line Combos: Leafs roster [Before] & [After] and work in progress

[BlueForever75]

Agree completely, great post. I heard the Bruins were about to fade away a few years back, still waiting and I agree that Foligno and Hall are likely to be great adds for them. Also agree completely about TB's 3rd line, their core is still intact and who knows what replacements will do for them? I mean I keep reading about how we won't miss Hyman and Bogosian or anyone else because all these low wage spare parts we picked up will be so awesome so where's the logic in assuming that the new TB guys will suck? And boy they'd have to really suck hard for that team to come down to our level, anyone thinking we have reason to think we match up well against TB next season is just nuts IMO.

It's always the same story, all the guys we sign will be so amazing and people are going crazy over Ritchie who has been a lazy bum his entire career. How some people think he will be better than Hyman who just signed a 7 year deal for more money per year than Ritchie will be paid for his two years here is beyond me and on and on it goes. What a joke.

I totally respect your thoughts. Lets get that out there.

But how can you or anyone else call Ritchie a bum? Based on what? Ritchie is more decorated as an athlete than Hyman will ever be. Was actually drafted in the first round, where exactly was Hyman drafted?

Whom exactly did Ritchie play with so far in his career? Who has Hyman played with? What teams did both Hyman and Ritchie play for? Anahiem and Boston for Ritchie, great goal scoring teams. Give me a break.

Hyman was the object and will continue to be the object of his linemates. He made millions like he has on this deal riding the coattails of his linemates. He was played above his ability and because of his linemates looked good and not out of place. The guy has stone mits. I remember when he first came to Toronto, everyone complained how the guy couldnt finish. Same as what is being said of Micheyev right now. He now goes to a team like Edmonton, and he's flanking whom? The freakin best player in the world, McDavid. How can he not be successful. Shit Kassian was successful for a season next to McDavid.

Like I said I respect your opinion, but come talkin about people's take on Hyman when he actually has to do something by himself and drive a line. Where was he last playoffs? Oh wait, Matthews and Marner were to blame his linemates!!! He disappeared. Was a non factor. Cause he does nothing unless Matthews and Marner did. As he did nothing if Matthews and Nylander did nothing.

The same will be said in Edmonton. When McDavid scores, Hyman will pick up a secondary assist and garbage goal and lots of empty netters, cause we know Hyman loves playing with an empty net.

But dont be bashing Ritchie until we see how plays and whom he plays with. Calling someone a bum because he played with crap isnt right. I guess only time will tell.

 

[Racer88]

I find it both hilarious and infuriating seeing the comments comparing our division sometimes. Tampa loses a bunch of players, that's okay they'll figure it out. Boston loses a bunch of players, that's okay they'll figure it out. Florida loses a few players or is banking on repeat seasons from some real surprise players, that's okay it'll work out. The Leafs lose a couple players, the sky is falling, our management is stupid, our window has closed, we aren't even a playoff team...

The only thing that is actually different is we watch this team, game in and game out, and know all its flaws and warts.

The grass will always be greener elsewhere to many. The moves we've made have every chance of working out equally well to the ones our divisional rivals have.

Unfortunately Tampa and Boston were so much better then the Leafs so they can afford to lose some good players and still be better then us.
I hate that it is this way but it is.
We all know why and I don’t see it changing anytime soon

 

[Sypher04]

Unfortunately Tampa and Boston were so much better then the Leafs so they can afford to lose some good players and still be better then us.
I hate that it is this way but it is.
We all know why and I don’t see it changing anytime soon

Boston really wasnt anything special last year. They were in our tier at best and their changes this offseason, save for Hall, are much riskier than anything we've done.

Also, the divide between how good teams were or weren't doesn't change the fact that people here regard our moves, almost always, as negative until proven positive which is a pretty miserable way to approach fandom. I understand why our fanbase has this pessimism at times. I'm not immune to it myself, but it's become a lot.

 

[myleafs]

I find it both hilarious and infuriating seeing the comments comparing our division sometimes. Tampa loses a bunch of players, that's okay they'll figure it out. Boston loses a bunch of players, that's okay they'll figure it out. Florida loses a few players or is banking on repeat seasons from some real surprise players, that's okay it'll work out. The Leafs lose a couple players, the sky is falling, our management is stupid, our window has closed, we aren't even a playoff team...

The only thing that is actually different is we watch this team, game in and game out, and know all its flaws and warts.

The grass will always be greener elsewhere to many. The moves we've made have every chance of working out equally well to the ones our divisional rivals have.

I think for me when it comes to Tampa and Boston it is that I believe they have a team structure and an identity that has the best chance to win and I believe that anyone coming in to those environments will have a better chance at succeeding, whereas I'm still not sure what the leafs identity is or if I believe in it.

 

[Mess]

Breaking down the Maple Leafs offseason moves

Breaking down the Maple Leafs offseason moves

 

[Gary Nylund]

I totally respect your thoughts. Lets get that out there.

But how can you or anyone else call Ritchie a bum? Based on what? Ritchie is more decorated as an athlete than Hyman will ever be. Was actually drafted in the first round, where exactly was Hyman drafted?

Whom exactly did Ritchie play with so far in his career? Who has Hyman played with? What teams did both Hyman and Ritchie play for? Anahiem and Boston for Ritchie, great goal scoring teams. Give me a break.

Hyman was the object and will continue to be the object of his linemates. He made millions like he has on this deal riding the coattails of his linemates. He was played above his ability and because of his linemates looked good and not out of place. The guy has stone mits. I remember when he first came to Toronto, everyone complained how the guy couldnt finish. Same as what is being said of Micheyev right now. He now goes to a team like Edmonton, and he's flanking whom? The freakin best player in the world, McDavid. How can he not be successful. Shit Kassian was successful for a season next to McDavid.

Like I said I respect your opinion, but come talkin about people's take on Hyman when he actually has to do something by himself and drive a line. Where was he last playoffs? Oh wait, Matthews and Marner were to blame his linemates!!! He disappeared. Was a non factor. Cause he does nothing unless Matthews and Marner did. As he did nothing if Matthews and Nylander did nothing.

The same will be said in Edmonton. When McDavid scores, Hyman will pick up a secondary assist and garbage goal and lots of empty netters, cause we know Hyman loves playing with an empty net.

But dont be bashing Ritchie until we see how plays and whom he plays with. Calling someone a bum because he played with crap isnt right. I guess only time will tell.

I didn't mean to offend, lazy bum is just an expression but OK I will take it back. I do try to be respectful so I shouldn't have said that, my apologies to Mr. Ritchie.

He has a reputation for lazyness, how's that? I don't know if it's true to be fair but there's a lot smoke there so it sounds like it has the ring of truth to it.

And disagree about Hyman. Not saying I want him back for that new contract but for what we paid him he was fantastic. And I disagree that he was a product of his linemates but whatever, that discussion has been had already and he's no longer a part of this so it doesn't matter really.I'm not sure this has been said though - Hyman was injured, he wasn't his usual aggressive and tenacious self in the playoffs and Matthews/Marner struggled. Maybe it's a total coincidence, maybe not, just putting that out there.

Again my apologies to Mr. Ritchie, I hope he's awesome for us!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Boston really wasnt anything special last year. They were in our tier at best and their changes this offseason, save for Hall, are much riskier than anything we've done.

Also, the divide between how good teams were or weren't doesn't change the fact that people here regard our moves, almost always, as negative until proven positive which is a pretty miserable way to approach fandom. I understand why our fanbase has this pessimism at times. I'm not immune to it myself, but it's become a lot.

From what I've seen, the opposite is true. If you want to feel better about the lack of positivity, go read some of Zeke's posts, he has enough optimism every summer to choke a horse.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The grass will always be greener elsewhere to many. The moves we've made have every chance of working out equally well to the ones our divisional rivals have.

We've lost 5 PO rounds in a row and are 0-7 in games where a win could close out the series. TB has won 8 PO series in a row. The gap between the two teams is massive so if everything works out "equally well", that massive gap remains in place so our chances of going deep next spring are near zero.

 

[Gabriel426]

Bruins biggest loss is Kreji bc he was a very underrated 2C and I don’t think Foligno or Coyle can replace him.

Having said that, let’s not kid ourselves, adding Hall and Foligno is a lot better than Any two signings of the Leafs this off-season.

The Leafs will do or die/sink or swim with AM, MM, Willie and JT.

 

[Racer88]

Boston really wasnt anything special last year. They were in our tier at best and their changes this offseason, save for Hall, are much riskier than anything we've done.

Also, the divide between how good teams were or weren't doesn't change the fact that people here regard our moves, almost always, as negative until proven positive which is a pretty miserable way to approach fandom. I understand why our fanbase has this pessimism at times. I'm not immune to it myself, but it's become a lot.

Ya I can agree to a certain extent about Boston. I think that the reason so many fans approach our trades and deals with mistrust and scepticism is partially that we are always scraping the bottom of the barrel for players that have injury histories or are already injured, have motivational, issues or are way way past their prime. Second reason is we have seen so few of these deals make any sort of difference and we are subjected to the same failure and disappointment year after year.
I for one will always be a Leaf fan but it gets harder every year to care about them.

 

[Racer88]

Bruins biggest loss is Kreji bc he was a very underrated 2C and I don’t think Foligno or Coyle can replace him.

Having said that, let’s not kid ourselves, adding Hall and Foligno is a lot better than Any two signings of the Leafs this off-season.

The Leafs will do or die/sink or swim with AM, MM, Willie and JT.

Yes and that’s a big problem for us. By the time they finally get rid of Shanny, Dubas and Keefe we will be in such a mess it will be 8 more years before we see any improvement

 

[kb]

Come on now, I think you're smarter than that. There was another time when one of our stars went down and we had an amazing record (Matthews I think?) but that doesn't mean we're better off without him.


There's zero point in comparing us to other teams in the summer. We're so awesome every summer and lose in round 1 every spring so I think it makes sense to wait until we at least win one round before bragging about having more points then this team and who overachieved for that team and how other teams lost this and that. It's the same shit every year, don't you get tired of it?

Bogosian was a 3rd pairing defenceman. By that very definition, he was not critical to the Leafs ultimate success, which was shown by the win/loss record with him out of the lineup.

I think people are reaching far beyond rational thinking at this stage.....it's all about the perception of winning or losing a discussion on a hockey board.

And the stats say that none of the 3 main players the Leafs lost were critical losses. Not just Bogosian.

Feelings never trump facts.

 

[Sypher04]

We've lost 5 PO rounds in a row and are 0-7 in games where a win could close out the series. TB has won 8 PO series in a row. The gap between the two teams is massive so if everything works out "equally well", that massive gap remains in place so our chances of going deep next spring are near zero.

A little hyperbolic but I don't entirely disagree. Yeah, there's a gap between us and Tampa. I was talking about this default position people take that our moves are all crap and will not work out.

 

[Sypher04]

Bruins biggest loss is Kreji bc he was a very underrated 2C and I don’t think Foligno or Coyle can replace him.

Having said that, let’s not kid ourselves, adding Hall and Foligno is a lot better than Any two signings of the Leafs this off-season.

The Leafs will do or die/sink or swim with AM, MM, Willie and JT.

Kreijci, and Rask are both big losses for the Bruins. They also lost Halak. And Foligno maybe replaces Ritchie's offense if they play him high enough or if he can stay healthy at all. Hall likely continues to be a good fit. They lost a D man too if I remember correctly, but can't remember who

 

[Gary Nylund]

Bogosian was a 3rd pairing defenceman. By that very definition, he was not critical to the Leafs ultimate success, which was shown by the win/loss record with him out of the lineup.

I think people are reaching far beyond rational thinking at this stage.....it's all about the perception of winning or losing a discussion on a hockey board.

And the stats say that none of the 3 main players the Leafs lost were critical losses. Not just Bogosian.

Feelings never trump facts.

I agree Bogosian isn't a critical piece. A valuable piece IMO, but not critical. Our record without him doesn't prove a thing though, I think I explained why I say that in my last post. JMHO.

A little hyperbolic but I don't entirely disagree. Yeah, there's a gap between us and Tampa. I was talking about this default position people take that our moves are all crap and will not work out.

I'm not sure many people are saying that but it's possible I guess, I don't read every post. I think the moves are fine myself, as far as working out goes I guess it depends what that means. I see no reason to believe our roster is better than last season (and many people seem to think it should be), probably not much worse either though. That's just me though, opinions vary obviously. Hyman is much better than anyone we signed IMO and we have really replaced Bogo have we? He's not a star or anything but he played very well for us so ATM our depth on D is worse for sure.

So as far as the moves working out or not goes, if working out means that the new guys play well and give us good bang for the buck, sure could happen I guess. If working out means going deep in the playoffs, I see no reason to believe that. Anything could happen of course but it doesn't seem likely.

You want optimism? I have a good feeling about our goalies. I have no compelling evidence to support my feeling but I feel optimism nevertheless. Maybe one of them goes on a heater and puts the team on his back, one can dream I guess.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Unfortunately Tampa and Boston were so much better then the Leafs so they can afford to lose some good players and still be better then us.

Tampa was missing Kucherov, but both teams finished below us last season.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yes and that’s a big problem for us. By the time they finally get rid of Shanny, Dubas and Keefe we will be in such a mess it will be 8 more years before we see any improvement

Look at Vegas, maybe the Leafs will ask for an expansion draft, lol.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Look at Vegas, maybe the Leafs will ask for an expansion draft, lol.

Never hurts to ask I guess.

When Lindros refused to play for Quebec, me and some of my buddies were joking that the Leafs should ask the NHL to just give him to the Leafs. We were just so bad at the time, so maybe the rest of the teams in the league would say OK you take him just because they felt sorry for us?

What a ride these last 50+ years have been. FML.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Agree completely, great post. I heard the Bruins were about to fade away a few years back, still waiting and I agree that Foligno and Hall are likely to be great adds for them. Also agree completely about TB's 3rd line, their core is still intact and who knows what replacements will do for them? I mean I keep reading about how we won't miss Hyman and Bogosian or anyone else because all these low wage spare parts we picked up will be so awesome so where's the logic in assuming that the new TB guys will suck? And boy they'd have to really suck hard for that team to come down to our level, anyone thinking we have reason to think we match up well against TB next season is just nuts IMO.

It's always the same story, all the guys we sign will be so amazing and people are going crazy over Ritchie who has been a lazy bum his entire career. How some people think he will be better than Hyman who just signed a 7 year deal for more money per year than Ritchie will be paid for his two years here is beyond me and on and on it goes. What a joke.

I kept saying Boston would decline I’ve just given up. They’re never declining

 

[zeke]

I find it both hilarious and infuriating seeing the comments comparing our division sometimes. Tampa loses a bunch of players, that's okay they'll figure it out. Boston loses a bunch of players, that's okay they'll figure it out. Florida loses a few players or is banking on repeat seasons from some real surprise players, that's okay it'll work out. The Leafs lose a couple players, the sky is falling, our management is stupid, our window has closed, we aren't even a playoff team...

Funny, ain't it?


They even have to convince themselves that a dman who played 14:32 a night was arguably a top 4 dman to paint that picture.

 

[Aus34Matt]

I kept saying Boston would decline I’ve just given up. They’re never declining

I think last season is Boston’s year 1 of decline.

2024 is when they’ll start to pick things up again.

 

[Aus34Matt]

View attachment 459250

They dumped that plan as soon as they got rid of Lou, Hunter, and Babcock.

 

[kb]

Funny, ain't it?


They even have to convince themselves that a dman who played 14:32 a night was arguably a top 4 dman to paint that picture.

It's out and out bizarre TBH.

 

[Racer88]

Tampa was missing Kucherov, but both teams finished below us last season.

Yet Tampa still won the cup and we choked away a 3-1 lead in games to the last place team entering the playoffs.
Kinda maybe shows that the Leafs placement in the North was a mirage

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yet Tampa still won the cup

Yeah, because they used a cap loophole to have an insane advantage over everybody.

Kinda maybe shows that the Leafs placement in the North was a mirage

Doesn't show that at all.