Leafs Offseason: Alot of big decisions, 17 key ones [Dubas(gone), Matthews, Marner, Nylander are biggies]

Status
Not open for further replies.

CaptainCrunch17

Registered User
Dec 31, 2010
489
712
North of Toronto
Perhaps a better coach can make him a better player. Doubt you find a better LWer via UFA for the same money.
I think what would make them better is changing the chemistry of the top two lines.

One of the overpaid four might need to move to accommodate such a change though.

Adding a true power forward with grit that would take the puck hard to the net when it’s required, be willing to go to the hard places on the ice in the o-zone might awaken this bunch.

Passing the puck around the perimeter for minutes at a time, like they’re in a skills competition, trying to wait for the perfect opportunity to pass the puck into an open net, simply doesn’t work in the playoffs. Someone creating havoc in front of the net, setting a screen, disturbing the goalie and defenders and smashing in rebounds does.

It also shouldn’t be Morgan Rielly that is the only player with the stones big enough to take the puck hard to the net with speed, it should be one of the key forwards being paid 10 Million plus.

If adding some grit into the top two lines doesn’t awaken this bunch than they should all be shipped out for other assets as they’ll never win anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: geo25 and ToneDog

Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
21,601
16,281
Keep Keefe??? You're not serious???
I'm most open to a new direction with coaching than I've been in a while, but while I've disagreed with some things that he did, especially this year, he is still a good coach, and there's always going to be things that fans disagree with the coach on, as fans are emotional and working with like 20% of the information that the coach is.

Coaches tend to get too much focus in the first place. I'm not really sure what people think changing the coach will fix, and my biggest concern is that there's a lot more room to go backward in terms of coaching than forward. I haven't heard many realistic improvements discussed.
 

leafan11

Registered User
Feb 13, 2010
783
932
Friedman said on the broadcast it’s his belief the board is in talks to bring Dubas back. Surprised that story didn’t garner some bigger post on here.
 

Beanzy

Registered User
Nov 14, 2018
467
819
just saw this on twitter :(

well if dubas is back am definitely out as a leafs fan





I'm really hoping it's a scenario where the board told Dubas that they'll re-sign him conditional upon firing Keefe and making some moves with the core (not Nylander).

If they run it back with the same bunch of losers from top to bottom, count me out as a die hard fan for next season.
 

CaptainCrunch17

Registered User
Dec 31, 2010
489
712
North of Toronto
Critically important to keep:
Matthews
Marner
Dubas

Not franchise-crippling to lose, but important to keep, or re-sign if a reasonable cost
Shanahan
Keefe
Nylander
Samsonov
O'Rielly

Possible options to re-sign, if cost is reasonable:
Schenn
Acciari
Kampf
ZAR

Players that we should let walk, or will be too expensive for their role here:
Kerfoot
Holl
Bunting
Gustafsson
Simmonds

Coaches tend to get too much focus in the first place. I'm not really sure what people think changing the coach will fix, and my biggest concern is that there's a lot more room to go backward in terms of coaching than forward. I haven't heard many realistic improvements discussed.
Well that certainly isn’t the way you felt when you repeatedly advocated for Babcock to be run out of town when he had years left on his contract and millions of dollars owed in salary.

You put 100% of the blame for everything on Babcock.

And let’s just be clear here, at that time, this team was at the beginning of their development cycle. They were still bringing in young talent, developing them and planting the seeds of success that would likely take several years to pay dividends. Babcock was hard on some of these players, yes, it’s true. But he did so because he was showing them what it would take to win it all. Not win just in the regular season.

And the result was that in many of those Babcock years, the Leafs were considered to have exceeded expectations at least at that time in their development cycle.

So you gave no similar considerations or allowances to Babcock. You expected nothing less than success in the playoffs or he should go.

Your solution and antidote to Babcock was Keefe. Who you claimed was a player friendly coach that once installed, would institute a possession style of play inkeeping with Dubas’ hockey philosophy and that the Leaf success would soon follow and that they would challenge for the cup in short order.

Well you were wrong then and you’re wrong now.

Failure after failure, you have defended Dubas with excuses like, “success isn’t linear”, you have blamed the NHL, the referees, the flat salary cap and concocted dozens of other creative excuses in an effort to defend your hero. You have repeatedly defended tying up half the salary cap in four players and advocated for “running it back” year after unsuccessful year.

You also repeatedly blamed Lamoriello, who upon leaving, only took a team out of the playoffs, into the 3rd round and in the process won the Jim Gregory award in back to back years. And he did that with a team that lost their franchise player and captain in Tavares. And he did that with the completely dysfunctional NY Islanders.

To Lou winning GM of the year, you responded that it was a irrelevant, dumb award anyway.

I’m sure if Dubas won the same award though, you would suddenly have a different take and be extolling how indicative it was of how great an executive Dubas is.

So now suddenly here we are after 5 years of playoff failure, with your guy as GM and his coach of choice behind the bench and now you proclaim “coaches get too much focus”.

Sorry, but your credibility here with most is simply long gone.

I wish this was Twitter so I could watch every one of your posts get ratioed.
 
Last edited:

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,754
25,226
Richmond Hill, ON
I believe the most likely scenario is Dubas re-signs, offers Keefe as the sacrifice to appease the fanbase and MLSE, extends both Matthews and Nylander, keeps Marner obviously.

He lets most UFAs walk and buys in on signing the grit/energy players to term instead of believing they work as rentals. He'll talk about the impact of Knies, the emergence of Woll blah blah blah. Next season with renewed faith under a new coach, they come out of the gate flying.

The less jaded fans start to believe again, while the rest of us just sigh and count the days until Tavares' and Dubas' contracts are up.
So you would rather Dubas buy in to something that goes against his vision and has arrogantly shoved down the fans' throat for 5 seasons rather than simply hiring a GM that believes in said vision. Sorry, not gonna work. A leopard does not change his spots. Punt him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rumman and geo25

Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
21,601
16,281
Well that certainly isn’t the way you felt when you repeatedly advocated for Babcock to be run out of town when he had years left on his contract and millions of dollars owed in salary.
You put 100% of the blame for everything on Babcock.
That's just flat out not true. Not only did I not "repeatedly advocate for Babcock to be run out of town", but I also didn't "put 100% of the blame for everything on Babcock". Sounds like you're thinking about a different person. In fact, despite there being way more issues with Babcock than Keefe, and an available improvement, it was really only the 2019 offseason when Babcock started getting heat, and even that was mild until Babcock's shenanigans and horrible results in the beginning of the 2019-2020 season, when some of his toxicity behind the scenes also started to come to light.

Babcock wasn't even the biggest issue for this early era, let alone 100% to blame. Lou alone was much more of an issue. Babcock's negative impact was at least confined to the moment. Not sure why any fan would care about the money/term Babcock had left.
And let’s just be clear here. At that time, this team was at the beginning of their development cycle. They were still bringing in young talent, developing them and planting the seeds of success that would likely take several years to pay dividends. Babcock was hard on some of these players, yes, it’s true. But he did so because he was showing them what it would take to win it all.
Let's actually be clear here. They were at the beginning of their development cycle, but also had some massive advantages. They weren't planting the seeds of success. More accurately, they harvested the entire previous crop, ate or improperly stored most of that harvest, and then improperly planted most of their seeds. And then left everything for the next guy to fix. Babcock's toxicity didn't serve any purpose, and didn't prepare them for what it would take to win it all. It just fed Babcock's ego. Keefe has helped them infinitely more than anything Babcock did.
And the result was that in many of those Babcock years, the Leafs were considered to have exceeded expectations at least at that time in their development cycle.
We lost, and did worse than we have since, despite the many advantages those teams had. Weird argument.
So let’s just be clear, you gave no similar considerations or allowances to Babcock. You expected nothing less than success in the playoffs or he should go.
Again, that's literally not true. I gave Babcock a ton of benefit of the doubts and considerations, and my feelings about him had little to do with the team's playoff outcomes, and had a lot more to do with his tanking of the 2019-2020 season, his personal actions/decisions in both the playoffs and regular season, and the toxicity he was displaying behind the scenes.
Your solution and antidote to Babcock was Keefe. Who you claimed was a player friendly coach that once installed, would institute a possession style of play in keeping with Dubas’ hockey philosophy and that the Leaf success would soon follow and that they would challenge for the cup in short order.
Keefe wasn't "my solution/antidote", and I didn't say any of the things you claim. Again, I'm not sure if you're confusing me for somebody else or just blatantly making stuff up. Keefe has been a massively better coach than Babcock though, no question.
you have defended Dubas with excuses like, “success isn’t linear”, you have blamed the NHL, the referees, the flat salary cap and concocted dozens of other creative excuses in an effort to defend your hero.
Dubas isn't my hero lol. He's just a really good GM who has had a positive impact on the team I cheer for, through some really difficult obstacles. I support that like any Leaf fan would. Acknowledging true facts and obvious impacting factors to things being discussed isn't defending anybody. It's discussing hockey. What we're supposed to be doing here, instead of just arbitrarily blaming individuals you dislike for outcomes you dislike.
You have repeatedly defended tying up half the salary cap in four players and advocated for “running it back” year after unsuccessful year.
If by that, you mean I support having good players that provide impact beyond their cap hits, and a good team, instead of throwing away everything that's been built out of misplaced anger.
You also repeatedly blamed Lamoriello
I have justifiably blamed Lou for things that Lou deserves to be blamed for, like I would for anybody.
To Lou winning GM of the year, you responded that it was a irrelevant, dumb award anyway.
It is a dumb, irrelevant award, and the same would be true if a Leaf GM won it. Most of these awards are stupid. Heck, every single Jack Adams finalist from just last year has already been fired.
now you proclaim “coaches get too much focus”.
I've had the same position that coaches get too much focus relative to their actual impact for pretty much my whole life, so not sure what you're talking about.
The same was even true for Babcock, who despite deserving focus, still got more than he should have relative to Lou.
 

HamiltonNHL

Resigning Marner == Running it back
Jan 4, 2012
22,710
13,884
Wtf is this. We're only trading Marner if names like Adam Fox, Stutzle, Tkachuk etc are coming back
Matthew and Brady Tkachuk aren't being traded.

Do you mean Taryn ?

1684086703557.png


 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,754
25,226
Richmond Hill, ON
Critically important to keep:
Matthews
Marner
Dubas

Not franchise-crippling to lose, but important to keep, or re-sign if a reasonable cost
Shanahan
Keefe
Nylander
Samsonov
O'Rielly

Possible options to re-sign, if cost is reasonable:
Schenn
Acciari
Kampf
ZAR

Players that we should let walk, or will be too expensive for their role here:
Kerfoot
Holl
Bunting
Gustafsson
Simmonds
If Dubas was "Critically important to keep", I doubt the geniuses at MLSEL would have gone into this past season with him as a lame duck GM. Good try though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rumman and myleafs

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,754
25,226
Richmond Hill, ON
Dubas earned the role of GM, and has done well in it. MLSE's mistake was not giving him an extension last offseason.
If that is the case, then their next mistake is to give him an extension now. You know what they say, some of the best moves are the ones you do not make. Let the guy move on and mess up another organization.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad